very important to the Islam religion (go in now)

[alantin]

I is true that the three have much similarities and they have their origins in the same things.
For example, I have heared that the Quran has portions of many stories of the Old Testament, but the Old Testament and the Jewish scriptures have them in full.
Also, I think, Mohammad was influenced by the Christianity of the time too.
I believe he calls Christians "the people of the Book" in the Quran..?

Isa is Jesus, right?
If so, then a lot of what you wrote is in clear contradiction with what is written in the Bible and the Bible was written a lot earlier!


I haven't had many dealings with Muslims but I'm not really sure what to think about Islam. We have all these news about terrorist acts conducted by islamists and murders of women who have somehow disappointed their family for example. They seem to often be so angry at people of other religions (Especially Jews and Christians and even towards other Islamic groups!). And the Sharia-law!

I don't think that the increasing influence of Islam in Europe is a good thing and it doesn't really convince me to convert to Islam.. :?


I don't mean to offend anyone. These are just some things that I'm concerned about when I think about Islam.

 

[theAlphaDuck]

ah-salam a lekum mr muslim...bravo!
your plan is quite clever...and big respect...
these people have never read muslim scripture...and now they have...they dont know it but they just got owned...
personally i did not read it...because i dont want to...i chose to keep my life closed to the quaran for now.
i would not want to be thought of as an infidel
as for its place in japan...well the japanese emperor almost became muslim once in a bid to gain favour with the muslim world...
so id say that given that japan was almost a muslim country gives this topic some rite in this forum...
so lets also respect freedom of speech yea
i do have a question tho...
where do you stand on JIHAD?
peace be upon you

 

[Red5]

theAlphaDuck ... wa alekom al salam wa rahmet Allah wa barakatoh .....
thank you for participation because I want to close this thread .. that's why ?
every one have religion and every one fight the others for that ....
,and because of Ur participation I'll complete .....
about your question I don't understand exactly ..explaine more


alantin ... you're completely wrong
our prophet (Mohammad)didn't influence with any religion ....
the Qur'an verse get down from Allah by Gepreel (is angel )
I don't want to convince you to convert Ur religion to Islam on this forum
the person who wants to be moslem ,he has to go to scientist of religion(Islam)

 

[theAlphaDuck]

as long as you question your own faith in the same mannor that you would have others question thiers....

for you cannot test the strength of a rope without pulling it.

so be sure to test the strength of your faith (regardless of religion) by asking questions of yourself, your books and your religous leaders.

and perhaps one day you will understand that your all wrong, and all correct
yet in darkness....
there is a universal truth

but it is not found in books or churches....

the light is there to be found,
but you must find it yourself....
and questions are the first step...

peace

 

[hideway]

Will I ever learn..?

 

[alantin]

alantin ... you're completely wrong
our prophet (Mohammad)didn't influence with any religion ....
the Qur'an verse get down from Allah by Gepreel (is angel )
I don't want to convince you to convert Ur religion to Islam on this forum
the person who wants to be moslem ,he has to go to scientist of religion(Islam)

Do you mean an Immaam by a "scientist of religion".?

Hmm.
Since you took up the subject of the end of the world, I'll quote something from here about how Christian influence can be seen in it..

Another direction in which Christian influence is manifest is in the traditions bearing on Eschatology and the signs of the End of the World. We know what a part these things have always played in popular Christianity, and we have seen also that Muhammad himself was deeply impressed by ideas of that kind. Around the signs of the Last Day mentioned in the Qur'an popular imagination naturally exercised itself.

......

The irruption of Gog and Magog is mentioned already in the Qur'an, but the Beast which is to appear before the End is probably borrowed from he same field of speculation at a later date. In spite of the number of traditions which refer to it, no very clear account of it is given. That the figure of the Dajjal which plays a large part in these traditions, and in popular thought, comes from the same source is certain. The word is Aramaic. The full title which appears in some of the traditions is al-masih ad-dajjal, which corresponds to the Syriac meshiha daggala, the false Messiah or false Christ (cf. Matt. xxiv. v.24), the Antichrist of Christian anticipations.

The Bold is mine!

There is much more, but I won't paste any more of it here.
You'll find more on the subject on the site I linked you to!

Based on the similarities, one was evidently influenced by the other and since the Bible existed for hundreds of years before Quran, the answer is clear!

I have heared some muslims claim that the Bible was corrupted and that it originally was in line with Quran but evidently the Bible has stayed the same for the whole time of it's existence (Check The Scrolls of Qumran for example) with countless number of manuscripts and copies around the world by the time of Muhammad. (Compare to Quran! Link to an earlier post in this thread!)

It is interesting how many things conserning the Quran are in clear contradiction with The Bible.
For example, don't the muslims think that the Quran is some kind of continuation or an update to the previous scriptures (The Jewish scriptures and the Bible)
(Please, I would like to have an answer to this from a muslim! It's just something that I have read!)

Still there are some pretty severe passages in the Bible that state that no other revelation will come!

Just to elaborate, I'll give links to a couple of passages! (They are short! Takes about a couple of seconds to read each!)

Galatians 1:8
And
Revelation 22:18-19


Cheers! 👍

 

[alantin]

Will I ever learn..?

The ten great things?

Full of arabic words and unknown heroes!
Hard to relate!

 

[Mycernius]

alantin ... you're completely wrong
our prophet (Mohammad)didn't influence with any religion ....
the Qur'an verse get down from Allah by Gepreel (is angel )
I don't want to convince you to convert Ur religion to Islam on this forum
the person who wants to be moslem ,he has to go to scientist of religion(Islam)

Joseph Smith said the book of Mormon was given to him by an angel. Do you believe that? If not, why not?
I suggest you read the bible and see the similarites of both scriptures rather than say that a magical mythological being told him to recite plaugrised Jewish and Christian scripture.

 

[Haruspex]

Oh come on. You can't argue that he got it from Gabriel. And honestly, how are you gonna prove that islam is right when in truth there are so many counterarguments for religion. Abrahamic religions especially are very vulnerable to phylosophical counterarguments in case you're interested. Just like God and YHWH, Allah fails miserably when faced with the Problem of Evil. So, come on. This is just one little counterargument against the existence of an Abrahamic deity, it is one of the many.
The credibility of the sources you base your views on is zero, zilch, zil, nothing. Basically, someone recorded something he wanted to record, as he wanted to record it. You can't argue that it was Gabriel, Allah, Muhammad.

How can you say that the events you have listed will happen before doomsday? Now honestly, it is so feeble, it doesn't even qualify as an educated guess. How many times did we witness those events? How many times did we witness doomsday? Never, to be honest. Now, how many times did we witness those events you have wrote about and doomsday in rapid succession? I needn't even tell.

Instead of trying to prove something without strong arguments, why don't you give good 'ol George Carlin (requiescat in pace) a chance?

 

[alantin]

Abrahamic religions especially are very vulnerable to phylosophical counterarguments in case you're interested. Just like God and YHWH, Allah fails miserably when faced with the Problem of Evil.

Just out of curiosity, what kinds of philosophical arguments of Abrahamic religions have your heard for the "Problem of Evil" and what do you mean exactly with the term?


Ps: I can't watch the Video right now.
I am interested to hear his argument's on why "religion is bullshit" though, and if he actually has something new and original..
I have heard it all and quite frankly, they often aren't very creative..

 

[Haruspex]

As in counterarguments against the problem of evil? Say, the argument of free will, the "can't see the whole picture argument", the "god isn't a being argument", the necessity of evil argument. None of which convince me. In case you meant to problem of evil counterargument just tell me, im more than eager to discuss it.

 

[alantin]

So you do mean the old "if there was a God there would not be evil, therefore there is no God" -argument?

No one has really bothered to give any further explanation to back up the statement. The supporters of this thinking in the past have usually just seemed to expect me to buy it because they say so and then start mocking me because I don't see it their way.

The reasoning has always been inadequate at best and has obvious flaws in it's black-and-white approach. Needless to say that It has never convinced me..

The other version of this discussion I have had in the past has been the other side monotonically repeating "if there was a God, why is there evil", and then saying "that's not good enough" to anything I have to say..

Anyway.. The existence of God is a subject that's inherently quick to raise bad gall between people who have exactly opposite views on it and I'm not really up for it right now..

I was just interested in which arguments you had heard.

By the way, I have never heard the "God is not a being" -argument used! Some new-age stuff..? ☝

 

[Haruspex]

I was just interested in which arguments you had heard.
By the way, I have never heard the "God is not a being" -argument used! Some new-age stuff..? ☝

Nah, its not that new. Plain says that God is not a moral agent, not really a being. He is something that is everywhere, within everything and we can't really grasp his definition.

 

[theAlphaDuck]

one should consider the following question.
is there even such a thing as "Evil"?
do we really have free will?
answer to both...YES...AND NO
understand the duality of the universe and it's infinite nature...
God cannot possibly exsist, yet the universe cannot possible exist in the way that it does without God....
a devine hand or a miracle coincedince....
is there a difference?
or are they one and the same....?
ask the questions...and you will find the true light....
move away from the darkness of preconcieved ideas...
we all have our senses...and nothing more is needed to find the universal truth....
one must simply ask questions.
good luck

 

[alantin]

lol

I like your thinking!

Very philosophical and vague! 😊

 

[Mycernius]

God cannot possibly exsist, yet the universe cannot possible exist in the way that it does without God....

I'm sorry, that is so vague and circular that it defies logic. The universe can quite happily exist without a divine hand in its creation. After all that argument just leads to where did God come from, an argument many theists avoid by saying God is eternal. Just because a puddle exists doesn't mean that it was created specifically for it existance.
If you follow the idea of a multiverse then this universe is one of many. Only in this one the forces of nature are right for our type of life to flourish, yet in another the forces differ slightly, or there was more anti-matter than matter.

a devine hand or a miracle coincedince....
is there a difference?

They are the same thing. You have just worded them differently. By miracle you are insinuating a designer. A chance.

ask the questions...and you will find the true light....

Which light have you decided on then, nature or godunnit?

move away from the darkness of preconcieved ideas...

The darkness being religion masquerading as science and oppressing reality when it is shown that its so called truths are false.

Anyway this thread is more towards Islamic end of the world and prophecies rather than religion in general, so try and keep it along those lines.
Thanks.

 

[theAlphaDuck]

on the topic of God/Allah

consider the following paradox.

God is ALL powerfull

so if he is to have every power possible...then that must also include the power to have no power at a time/space....

however he has this power then he cannot be all powerfull as in that moment/area he has no power.

but if he does have power in that space/time then he is NOT all powerfull because he does not have the power to have no power within a certain time/space

....

as for your comment myc..

try to understand what INFINTE means...

i fear you aproach the subject with a closed mind...

and i would argue this thread is about metaphysics

 

[theAlphaDuck]

one must understand the duality of the universe...

or as some call it...ying and yang

the world must end tommorow...yet there is no way it possibly can...and yet it happens everyday...and never

that probably confuses most....

the key to the first step of understanding the universe and its infinite nature is:

Everything that can happen: is,will, and has happenned
also everything that cannot possibly happen: is,will, and has happened

for in an infinite universe the impossible is just as likely as the possible....

 

[alantin]

Well.. As I recall it, the thread was about "very important to the Islam religion (go in now)"

I still wonder what "go in now" is supposed to mean other than telling us to become muslims.. ☝

On your question. Isn't creation ultimately about setting boundaries and defining parameters that give the objec, idea, etc. it's shape.
Even though a creator has absolute power in respect to his creation, does setting these parameters diminish the said power?
Think of a computer program that's functioning depends on all the pieces working seamlesly together. Even though the programmer has the power to chance and ignore the set parameters, doing so would cause the system to crash. Does that mean, that he has no absolute power over the program?

but if he does have power in that space/time then he is NOT all powerfull because he does not have the power to have no power within a certain time/space

Anyway. According to the biblical scripture, God did exactly this in being born as Jesus. A full God and a full mortal man at the same time. The greatest philosophical paradox ever!

Still. If you don't believe it, then you don't believe it. Nothing I can do that would convince you. ☝

 

[theAlphaDuck]

to put it simply....

God created the universe, the world and populated it with people.....then man created God, in his own image.

your programmer metaphor is interesting...
and running with it...

who decides what the actual end program really is...
the programe or the programmer?

take the following:
10 if INPUT is 1 GOTO 20 ELSE GOTO 30
20 Print "yes"
30 Print "no"

is it the programmer that decides what the first line must be, or the programme?
and if the programmer wants the machine to output the word "yes" is there any other way bar the code in line 20?

is the machine slave to the programmer...or the programmer slave to the machine?

 

[Haruspex]

Please find support for your premise that says the universe is infinite (a vague term indeed, but applying the principle of charity, I suppose you meant time).

This thread had nothing to do with something very important to the Islam religion, because that thing would be a nice thorough reform, and not the deeds of fictional chaps.

Responding to Alantin's comment, think we have to ask the op.
Is "go in now" meant to suggest that we should convert to Islam?

 

[alantin]

Yeah.. I have been waiting for him to show up but in spite of his initial enthusiasm he has been quiet for a while..

Many questions have gone unanswered!

His posts on Islamic eschatology were interesting though.
It sure helped when I found out what a couple of terms meant. I'm not exactly fluent in semitic languages.. 😊

 

[theAlphaDuck]

I believe you have answered your own question defrel


can you think of the next question?

 

[Red5]

In the name of Allah the beneficent and merciful
First thing I didn't enter to internet coz I had meeting in Japanese center in the university.........
Secondly I wrote ( go in now ) I mean to inter to thread not to Islam
As Mr. theAlphaDuck said the Allah has great powerful no one can imagine this power
E.g. Allah know every thing without learn this is God's features
And by the way I want to tell every one doesn't know
There is three people who create with God's powerful:
( Allah create Adam and he doesn't have father and mother
,and create Hawwa by Adam only ...... And create Isa without father)
So most people think that God is Isa's father.....
And I am Muslim and I don't take care of any one not Muslim
by the way theAlphaDuck are you Muslim or not

 

[Haruspex]

Can you guess what % of the people on these boards are muslim?
Besides, you are making declarative sentences about "Allah" when there is no actual proof for him. And lets suppose he exists, still, how can you be so sure that your information is correct? What about the other two Abrahamic religions, what about all the little renegade sects, no, what about all the other belief systems? You know, anyone can say that "this is so because a certain angel, or prophet or whoever the hell did x." Well, cool, but thats the same regardless of the person declaring it. Lets put it like this, words and imagination are a way more powerful than senses.