Unpopular personal characteristics in Japan

Crackpot · 4 May 2006

strongvoicesforward said:
My view is that lying here in Japan begins with tatemae. Those are superficial lies, that we may view as "white lies" (oh, Susan, your new hair style is great!), when actually it isn`t. Tatemae seems more prevalent here -- as if it is a daily thing -- a way of life. I don`t see it as deception with a purpose to full someone for self profit.
I think tatemae came about naturally in Japan due to the close proximity of living conditions and paper thin walls. It is just better to act as if you didn`t hear your neighbors fighting than act as if you did and then when you meet them outside greet them in a way that pulls knowledge off of whatever familiarity you have learned about them through close quarters. It probably started like that in small subtle ways and built and built until now we have this culture here of superficiality. It grates me.
I still hate the superficial comment about how well I am at using chopsticks despite the fact that the person complimenting me knows I have lived here for 15 years. I mean, have I ever complimented a Japanese about how well they can use "sit-down" style comodes to defacate? "Oh Junko, you really know how to use a toilet seat realy well and just sit so centered on the seat."
Actually, I`ve said that before, but sarcasm rarely registers with the Japanese humor bone -- unless you have a big squeeky red hammer. Then you are Jim Carry funny man.

Thanks for your tatemae explanation SVF and I look forward to the next time i am asked about using chopsticks by someone Id like to startle!

When I was growing up there was a number of paradoxes that might apply here. For example - being a drunk was deplored but most people got wasted frequently. Nobody liked a show-off or individualist because they put the average Joe who needs folk in a bad light. But if they were genuinely gifted then they were awed. I could give a few more examples but my main thought is that I grew up in a poor working class society, isolated by lack of money for travel and education, which I now realise, is the type of society world wide that struggles the most with the paradoxical essence of human nature.

I wonder if Japan, which has a huge middle class (although perhaps somewhat declined in the past 15 years) and access to education and travel is widespread if there not is a conscious impediment to a more sophisticated understanding of the complexities of human nature because of their unique history or is the process slower here for other reasons. And that this impedment permeates the arts, sciences, politics etc.

Just a dumb thought

pipokun · 6 May 2006

Kyoko_desu said:
About #9, I suppose the writer said the word "good" sarcastically.

As wrote before, the No.9 was "窶堙｢窶堙ｨﾅｽﾃｨ" in the original book.
No the happo-bijin at all.

Kyoko_desu · 6 May 2006

gomen nasai

Seems like I missed alot of posts before posting my own.
I'm very sorry for my carelessness and poor understanding.

Ost Prussia · 9 May 2006

I like number 9.

Grib · 18 May 2006

I h8 drunk liars and dreaming property owners.

miu · 22 May 2006

I totally agree that complaining is seen as a negative trait... Maybe it's associated with bothering other people? For me, complaining is a form of small talk I complain to my friends a lot and they complain to me - the point isn't trying to solve the problem, it's all about sharing the load. I think that guys, too, in general see complaining as a negative trait: they think they must immediately solve the problem somehow when it isn't at all the point

Another characteristic which I think the Japanese probably find negative is people who talk about themselves and how they feel. For example, I usually say something like "I feel that..." "In my opinion..." when I want to explain something during an argument etc. I have the impression that the Japanese find this very self-centered whereas I just see it as explaining my side since the other person might have no clue how I feel. ☝

FrenchMan · 30 May 2006

Some are qualities

3. Dreamer
4. Debator (person who argues, quarrels alot)
5. Complainer

These are qualities in France.. Especially debators French do that on a daily basis.

ricecake · 14 Jun 2006

godppgo said:
Kyoko-san!
Thanks for the translation, I learned something new today! I had a very difficult time explaning number 9. Is there a term in Japanese to describe someone who is always bragging?

What's the book title of this Chinese translated version ?

I would like to get a copy,for I recently take interest in how Japanese see fellow Japanese and behave among their own people and foreigners.

JimmySeal · 14 Jun 2006

Complimenting someone on their chopstick skills is very patronizing and annoying, but what's worse is the fall-out-of-your-chair and lie-on-ground-gasping-for-air shock that they sometimes express when they see you using chopsticks. That's quite insulting. One time recently someone said "you use chopsticks well." and I said "Thanks. So do you." One of my friends took preemptive action and praised a Japanese person on their chopstick skills before they could do it to him.

The dishonest nature of most Japanese people really does get on my nerves, and I dislike the way that people shoot down compliments and expect you to do the same. I'd rather see them be boastful than lie to me.

The word opportunist has a negative connotation in English also. It usually means not just a person who takes risks and seizes opportunities, but also someone who is willing to step on others, lie, debase themselves to achieve those goals.

What's strange is that the most unpopular trait is missing from the list, though it occurs in people with traits 1, 3, 4 and maybe 5: free thinker.

godppgo · 14 Jun 2006

ricecake said:
What's the book title of this Chinese translated version ?
I would like to get a copy,for I recently take interest in how Japanese see other Japanese and behave among their own people and foreigners.

The Chinese title for this book is "窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ人窶廬ﾂ行窶慊ｮ窶禿最ｽﾂｮ".

ricecake · 14 Jun 2006

godppgo said:
The Chinese title for this book is "日本人的行動模式".

Ooops ... forgot to ask for name of Taiwan publisher.

Thanks,
ricecake

firideibi · 14 Jul 2006

Konnichiwa:

Hmm... the only exceptions I can see in the list are opportunists and those posessing social skills...

There is something in the American spirit that would seize any opportunity (say, to become famous or "make it big") so long as it doesn't implode on you.

I'm not so sure that "social skills" should be considered a strike against anyone. If anything, they seem to be a requirement here in the States, even if you are learning-disabled like me (ADHD).

I know I do have a hangup with "property owners" (landlords as we'd call them here); in the New York City area they have a bad reputation -- especially among apartment dwellers who are trying to make those rent payments every month while the landlord groups whine about the rents not being high enough for their coffers.

Hmmm...

Philip David
2007.07.13
☝

Unpopular personal characteristics in Japan

Crackpot

後輩

pipokun

先輩

Kyoko_desu

先輩

Ost Prussia

後輩

Grib

後輩

miu

先輩

FrenchMan

後輩

ricecake

先輩

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

godppgo

先輩

ricecake

先輩

firideibi

後輩

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