Understanding these Sentence types

[Damicci]

彼女を知っている人誰でもと話した。
I have spoken to everyone who knew her.

I need some help figuring out how this sentence is constructed.
Or more less why in this manner.

たとえば： Is this correct?
この仕事のタイプを前した人誰でもと聞きましたか？
Have you asked anybody who has done this type of work before?

Another example. Probably wrong too:
私に彼女の本当の気分を教えている女の子が大好きと思います。
I like a girl who can tell me her true feelings.
or
君（～さん）みる女の子がすきと思います。
I like a girl like(similar to) you.

Thanks.

 

[nice gaijin]

I'm coming down with something awful, but here's a shot
彼女の知人の皆と話していた。
I spoke with all of her acquaintences

こんな仕事をしたことある人に聞きましたか。
Have you asked someone who has done this kind of job before? (kind of vague, maybe use 話しました instead of 聞きました

僕はちゃんと気分を表してくれる（くれられる）女性が好きです。
I like women who (can) properly express their feelings to me.

～さんのような女が好きですよ。
I like a girl like you （kind of get the feeling that you like someone else that is similar to ~さん)

～さんは私の好みのタイプです。
You're the kind of girl I like (you're my type)

you can include the 好みのタイプ with the "express feelings" sentence above as well.

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm coming down with something awful, but here's a shot
僕はちゃんと気分を表してくれる（くれられる）女性が好きです。
I like women who (can) properly express their feelings to me.

I would use (hontou no or chanto) kimochi in this sentence, but perhaps either is OK. At least there is no くれられる though so that part is a mistake.

 

[nice gaijin]

lol I figured I screwed up somewhere. I'm all doped up on anti-histamines and 'tussin :meh:

 

[epigene]

彼女を知っている人誰でもと話した。
I have spoken to everyone who knew her.
たとえば： Is this correct?
この仕事のタイプを前した人誰でもと聞きましたか？
Have you asked anybody who has done this type of work before?

(1) Damicci-san, the problem you have here is that you use "daredemo" for both "everyone" and "anybody" which are different. Everyone points to "all persons (who know the girl)", and "anybody" suggests that you are satisfied if you find just one person.

That's why the first sentence should be:
彼女を知っている人皆（みんな）と話した。

The second sentence should be 誰か and not 誰でも
Other changes that must be made in the second one:
このタイプの仕事を前にした人誰かに聞きましたか？

Another example. Probably wrong too:
私に彼女の本当の気分を教えている女の子が大好きと思います。
I like a girl who can tell me her true feelings.
or
君（～さん）みる女の子がすきと思います。
I like a girl like(similar to) you.

(2) 彼女の本当の気分を教えている女の子:
Here, you are speaking in the abstract (i.e., you preference in girls), so you should be using 自分 rather than 彼女 (used only when you have a specific girl in mind).

(3) 気分 is mood and not true feelings.

(4) Another thing is 教えている. "Can tell" is 教えてくれる:
自分の本当の気持ちを教えてくれる女の子

(5) 女の子 is okay when you have young girls in mind. 女性 is used when you are referring to women in general, with a sense of respect. You can refer to women as 女 only when you are suggesting disrespect or when you speaking only among men.

(6) 君（～さん）みる女の子がすきと思います。
ー＞君のような女の子がすき（です）。

Don't use と思います (more correctly, だと思います) when you are stating a fact or preference. Adding "to-omoimasu" suggests that you are open to changing your mind after receiving comments from others.

The correct forms:
私に自分の本当の気持ちを教えてくれる女の子が大好きです。
君（～さん）のような女の子がすきです。

HTH

 

[Elizabeth]

彼女を知っている人皆（みんな）と話した。
The second sentence should be 誰か and not 誰でも
Other changes that must be made in the second one:
このタイプの仕事を前にした人誰かに[
私に自分の本当の気持ちを教えてくれる女の子が大好きです。
HTH

Those are interesting examples of 人皆、人誰か。 I would have assumed along with nicegaijin that either 人 or 皆、誰か was alright. And yeah, the second sentence too I was concerned about but figured as long as the general meaning was there...

 

[Elizabeth]

このタイプの仕事を前にした人誰かに聞きましたか？

面白いなああとおもいます。 この文について聞いた日本人友達は英訳なしで、何が言いたかったの
か良くわからないって言いました。「人」か「誰か」かなのか、ニュアンスがつかめないのは
問題になりますか？

 

[Damicci]

I also read the normally ~mo etc daremo, nanimo, dokomo, are used with negative sentences. so thats a plus to know. Even though my class has been cancelled I think I will still try to contionue the lessons with my book.

Could you say:
このタイプの仕事を前にした人誰もに聞きませんでしたか？

 

[epigene]

面白いなああとおもいます。 この文について聞いた日本人友達は英訳なしで、何が言いたかったの
か良くわからないって言いました。「人」か「誰か」かなのか、ニュアンスがつかめないのは
問題になりますか？

うむ～本当は全面改訂が必要ですか、そこまでして、いいかどうか、私には判断しかねますね。そうすると学習の意味がなくなると思いますが？
この場合、誰も、誰でも等の使い方を勉強しているので、他は大目に見ていいんじゃないかと思いますけど。どうでしょうか

 

[epigene]

Could you say:
このタイプの仕事を前にした人誰もに聞きませんでしたか？

It depends on what you want to say.

このタイプの仕事を前にした人=>前（に）このタイプの仕事をしたことのある人・以前この種の仕事をしたことのある人
(this part has been revised for improvement)

誰もに＝＞I understand what you want to say, but in this case use
みんなに；If you want to ask all persons who previously did that type of work
誰かに：If you want to ask one person (any person) who previously did that type of work

聞きませんでしたか means "didn't you hear it?" as when you ask someone whether the person has heard certain news, etc.

If you want the sentence in your original post, it's
前（以前）このタイプ（種）の仕事をしたことある人誰かに聞きましたか？

 

[Elizabeth]

Still another closely worded variation...

このタイプの仕事を前にしたのは誰か聞きましたか？

これはまったく意味が違ってきますね。One possible translation I can conjure up for this one would be "Did someone hear that this type of work has been done before?" with the negative 誰か（も）聞きませんでしたか (Didn't someone hear....?)....Still not sure why it isn't したことは though, and whether this means the work has been done for sure and all you are asking for is confirmation (I assume it does).

 

[Damicci]

そして、またこの文正のタイプを作ろうしていましたが、恋人は文正を分かりませんでした。
残念、
こちらこそ：
この旅行会社から切符を前買った人誰もに聞きませんでしたか？
『Have you asked anyone who has bought a ticket from this travel agency before?』
何ところが違いましたか？
も、作るのVolitionalFormは何ですか。
～るの動詞には「る」を消して、「よう」入れていますね。
EDIT:見つけた。
作るは～うの動詞から、 「る」は「ろう」になります。

 

[Elizabeth]

そして、またこの文正のタイプを作ろうしていましたが、恋人は文正を分かりませんでした。

がを入れたほうが正しいです。
Always ga/wa wakarimasu....wo wakaru is a particular kind of a pretty serious mistake.

 

[Damicci]

Yeah, Maybe I should take a short break.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, Maybe I should take a short break.

前に比べて日本語の勉強に熱心ではないと言う事ですか？ At least for me, that is the only reason I would consider a break. I think you're making fine progress, Damicci. Some mistakes just seem to set me more off than others.

 

[Glenn]

Also, I'm pretty sure 文正 should be 文章. 文正 refers to a span of time from Feb 28, 1466 to March 5, 1467.

この旅行会社から切符を前買った人誰もに聞きませんで したか？

Drop the 前. 買った will show that the people have already bought the tickets. If you want someone who has bought tickets from the company then you can say この旅行会社から切符を買ったことが（の）ある人. I think the use of この is a bit strange here, though, unless you're standing in the store or something. As for the 誰にも I would probably not say it, but I'm not sure what the exact nuance and grammaticality of it are.

 

[Elizabeth]

Also, I'm pretty sure 文正 should be 文章. 文正 refers to a span of time from Feb 28, 1466 to March 5, 1467.
Drop the 前. 買った will show that the people have already bought the tickets. If you want someone who has bought tickets from the company then you can say この旅行会社から切符を買ったことが（の）ある人. I think the use of この is a bit strange here, though, unless you're standing in the store or something. As for the 誰にも I would probably not say it, but I'm not sure what the exact nuance and grammaticality of it are.

Both Mae ni and dare ni mo are fine I think -- just make it fit the pattern of Epigene's first example (unless hito is also necessary here for the time being. Of course the negative is not going to get you "have you asked" but I'm assuming the verb is set up that way for practice.

 

[bentenmusume]

Still another closely worded variation...
このタイプの仕事を前にしたのは誰か聞きましたか？
これはまったく意味が違ってきますね。One possible translation I can conjure up for this one would be "Did someone hear that this type of work has been done before?"

Really? My first instinct upon seeing this sentence was to parse it as:

"Did you ask who did this type of work before?"

As in, we know that there's someone who has done this type of work before, and we're trying to find out the identity of that person. Was it Mr. Tanaka? Was it Mr. Smith? Did you ask (some other, unspecified person) who it was that did the work?

It would take a lot of effort for me to interpret it the way you did. I have some ideas as to why this is, but I should probably wait for a native speaker (or someone more native than me) to confirm that my reading is okay.

 

[Elizabeth]

Really? My first instinct upon seeing this sentence was to parse it as:
"Did you ask who did this type of work before?"
As in, we know that there's someone who has done this type of work before, and we're trying to find out the identity of that person. Was it Mr. Tanaka? Was it Mr. Smith? Did you ask (some other, unspecified person) who it was that did the work?
It would take a lot of effort for me to interpret it the way you did. I have some ideas as to why this is, but I should probably wait for a native speaker (or someone more native than me) to confirm that my reading is okay.

Yeah, it took me a lot of effort to come up with my interpretation too.
It seemed to make sense based on a couple of web sites with similar patterns but even then I wasn't really that confident. Did you ask (the name of this someone/person) who had done this type of work before ? 誰か（と）聞きましたか。

 

[Glenn]

Yeah, I checked epigene's example and it looks like the 前 is OK. Oops. Sorry about that, Damicci.

 

[Damicci]

I only say this because. I still feel stuck. I keep making the same grammatical errors. I think my vocabulary is getting better but the grammar is killing me. Plus there are so many grammatical nuances and exceptions it's crazy.

JT_ looking at Elizabeth's example I can understand why you would read it that way. At first glance I see it as "Did/Have you asked "someone" who has done this type of work before?" Only saying "someone" because in class we learned the dare+ka becomes and unknown someone and dare alone is "who".

No problem Glenn, I appreciate everyones help on this. These sentence types which require a conjugated verb to be the subject/topic plague me.

 

[Glenn]

Hmm, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "sentence types which require a conjugated verb to be the subject/topic." Do you mean relative clauses or nominalized verbals? Also, do you mean tense/aspect in these constructions and how it changes the meaning?

For instance, relative clause:
私は読んだ本を机に置いた。
"I put the book I was reading on the desk."

Nominalized verbal:
私は読むのが好きだ。
"I like to read."

野菜をたくさん食べることが健康にいい。
"Eating lots of vegetables is good for your health."

Is it both, neither, only one aspect of one of them, etc?

 

[Elizabeth]

JT_ looking at Elizabeth's example I can understand why you would read it that way. At first glance I see it as "Did/Have you asked "someone" who has done this type of work before?" Only saying "someone" because in class we learned the dare+ka becomes and unknown someone and dare alone is "who".

The distinction between someone and "who" is correct, but this is the sentence in your original post. The translation that jt_suggested for のは誰か is not just someone in general, in this case think of 誰 か as two separate words, asking the particular person who did the work.

And it may actually be easier to substitute 人 or a name if the 誰 forms are too untranslatable at this point. それを読んだ人 (a person that read it (as the subject))、それを読んだのは人 (the person that read it, lit. "it is a person that read it") is a general rule of thumb distinction that works better in English.

 

[Elizabeth]

Really? My first instinct upon seeing this sentence was to parse it as:
"Did you ask who did this type of work before?"
As in, we know that there's someone who has done this type of work before, and we're trying to find out the identity of that person. Was it Mr. Tanaka? Was it Mr. Smith? Did you ask (some other, unspecified person) who it was that did the work?
It would take a lot of effort for me to interpret it the way you did. I have some ideas as to why this is, but I should probably wait for a native speaker (or someone more native than me) to confirm that my reading is okay.

I'm thinking also, perhaps this is a mistake and should be dare da ka kikimashitaka? :?

 

[Damicci]

Glenn, I understand nominalization of verbs. ( for me basic dictionary form + no ga or koto ga)
but let's I wanted to say. "Picking up heavy boxes makes my back hurt."
Attempt, 重い箱を持って上げるのは、私のこしが痛く。。。？？？？"負けた"
Not sure how to finish this sentence.