Trying to make Japanese friends at university

tomodachi_dan · 7 Jan 2005

Konbanwa from Buriten!

I've been thinking of putting up posters in the language department of my university to find more Japanese friends. That's how I met my friend Tomo so it definetly would be a worthwhile thing to do! I'll be writing mostly in hiragana, since my kanji looks like a baby's written it! I've made a draft but I need a kind person to check it for me. Here it is in romaji. I need some gaps to be filled, thus the English

Anata-wa nihonjin desu ka?
(Do you have free time?)

Hajimemashite.
Watashi-wa Danieru desu. 18 sai. Buritenjin desu.
(I'm looking for some informal/relaxed Japanese conversation)
(Please let me know if you're interested)
(Phone Number: 000000000)
Arigatoogozaimasu.

Anything else you think I should add, I'd be glad to hear it.

Dan

epigene · 7 Jan 2005

Konnichiwa, Dan-san!

I've tried to translate what you wrote but made some changes to make it sound more natural.

(Do you have free time?)
Ohima arimasuka?

Hajimemashite.
Watashi-wa Danieru desu. 18 sai. Buritenjin desu.
Japanese don't use "Buritenjin." To the Japanese, everyone from the UK is Igirisujin. If you don't like this, you should call yourself "Ueerusu-jin" (Welsh).

(I'm looking for some informal/relaxed Japanese conversation)
Kigaruna fun-iki de nihongo kaiwa wo shitai to omotteimasu. (I hope to have Japanese conversation in a casual atmosphere.)

(Please let me know if you're interested)
Kyoumi ga attara, oshiete kudasai. (Same as above)
Kyoumi ga attara, renraku kudasai. (Contact me if you're interested.)
*The second one is better.

(Phone Number: 000000000)
Denwa bangou wa 00000000 desu.

Soredewa, ganbatte ne!

tomodachi_dan · 10 Jan 2005

Arigatogozaimasu epigene-san! I am very grateful!

So in Hiragana, it should look like this? Please correct any mistakes.

あなたはにほんじんですか
おひまありますか
はじめまして
わたしはだにえるです
18さい
うええるすじんです
きがるなふにきでにほんごかいわをしたいとおもっています
きょうみがあったられんらくください
でんわばんごうは000000です
ありがとございます

Giorgia_ · 10 Jan 2005

うええるす→うぇーるず（ウェールズin Katakana）
ふにき→ふんいき

Does it look better?

tomodachi_dan · 10 Jan 2005

あなたはにほんじんですか
おひまありますか
はじめまして
わたしはだにえるです
18さい
ウェールズじんです
きがるなふんいきでにほんごかいわをしたいとおもっています
きょうみがあったられんらくください
でんわばんごうは000000です
ありがとございます

Is that better?

epigene · 10 Jan 2005

いいとおもいますよ！

がんばってね！

tomodachi_dan · 13 Jan 2005

Hey minna-san!

I haven't written my poster yet, because I've decided to make a few changes. I know a few Japanese/Chinese people who I'm sure do not feel comfortable speaking English in front of others, and so need some help and guidance.

Here are the changes (in bold)

Anata-wa Nihonjin desu?
Do you need help with your English?
Hajimemashite.
Watashi-wa Danieru desu
If you're interested in improving your grammar, a bit of informal English conversation, or just to make a British friend, give me a call.
......... the rest is the same

Cheers! Arigato!

Dan

epigene · 15 Jan 2005

Hi, Dan!

Do you need help with your English?
えいごでおてつだいできることがあったら、いってください。(Let me know if there is anything I/we can help with English)

If you're interested in improving your grammar, a bit of informal English conversation, or just to make a British friend, give me a call.
きがるなえいかいわやえいごのべんきょう、それともイギリスじんのともだちづくりにきょうみがありましたら、れんらくください。(Please contact me if you're interested in English conversation and study or in making British friends.)

I hope this is OK!

tomodachi_dan · 18 Jan 2005

epigene-san,

Could you possibly write the above sentences in romaji? I will be sending this as an e-mail to the president of the Japanese society in my university.

Many thanks!

Dan

epigene · 18 Jan 2005

えいごでおてつだいできることがあったら、いってください。
Eigo de otetsudai dekirukoto ga attara, itte kudasai.

きがるなえいかいわやえいごのべんきょう、それともイギリスじんのともだちづくりにきょうみがありましたら、れんらくください。
Kigaruna eikaiwa ya eigo no benkyou, soretomo Igirisu-jin no tomodachi dukuri (or zukuri) ni kyoumi ga arimashitara, renraku kudasai.

HTH!!

tomodachi_dan · 18 Jan 2005

YATTANE! That's very quick posting, thank-you epigine-san!

Ok, now I'm going to sleep because it's 3AM here in the UK!

Minna-san, oyusami nasai!

Glenn · 18 Jan 2005

Minor correction: it's not みんなさん, but みなさん.

tomodachi_dan · 18 Jan 2005

In romaji, kudasai ....

Glenn · 18 Jan 2005

It's mina-san, not minna-san.

tomodachi_dan · 18 Jan 2005

Gomen, mina-san! My Japanese dictionary has it written with two 'n's, you see ...

PaulTB · 18 Jan 2005

tomodachi_dan said:
Gomen, mina-san! My Japanese dictionary has it written with two 'n's, you see ...

I think you'll find that your dictionary has
minna
with two n's but not
minnasan.

It should also have
mina
and possibly
minasan.

If the above isn't the case then get a better dictionary.

Harvey · 23 Jan 2005

It's mina-san, not minna-san.

I can't let that slide.

It really really doesn't matter.
皆さん。皆さん。 They both are "henkan" to the same kanji on a keyboard, and Japanese people say both.

epigene · 23 Jan 2005

Glen and Paul are right.

皆：みんな (minna)
皆さん：みなさん (minasan)

That's standard Japanese. Most Japanese dialects I know don't have "minna-san" either.

Harvey · 23 Jan 2005

Hrm... I swear I have heard みんなさん around.

Hah. I win.

みんなさん - Google Search

Look.
みんなさん、本当に心から感謝します。 | 天澤故の日常 - 楽天ブログ

みんなさんの温かい言葉に本当に感動しました。
私は平気です。

☆見た、聞いた。みんなさんも結構面白い

☆見た、聞いた。みんなさんも結構面白い

みんなさんに、会ったです。そして、できたです。です。 - げーじゅつ家たんたんのBLOG
Strange page. But it's there.
このタルの墨度は９９．９９%：みんなさん～元気？【エレの昔、その一】

みんなさん～元気？【エレの昔、その一】

Hah. I win.

Even if it's officially incorrect, it's used by enough native Japanese that it's fine by me!

bentenmusume · 24 Jan 2005

Harvey said:
Hah. I win.

I wasn't aware that this was a competition.

Yes, a Google search turns up 14,200 hits for みんなさん. This is compared to slightly under FIVE MILLION hits for みなさん and nearly EIGHT million for 皆さん (note that 「みなさん」 is the only standard reading for this). That's a far cry from saying, as you suggested, that the two are equally common or completely interchangeable.

If you search the internet, I'm sure you could also come up with a bunch of examples of English speakers who confuse "it's"/"its", "there"/"their"/"they're", "too"/"to", "lose"/"loose", and so forth. Some are probably typos, others are people who don't know (and don't care) about using their own language properly. Does that mean that these things "don't really matter" when you write English?

Besides, seeing みんなさん on webpages doesn't mean that a significant number of people use it in speech. Many English speakers misspell "lose" as "loose", but I would imagine that not a single one actually pronounces it like the adjective "loose".

I have a feeling that if you wrote みんなさん on your blog or personal homepage or whatever, you could get away with it -- most people would probably think it was a typo. This doesn't change the fact that if you were to pronounce in that way when you speak, the overwhelming majority of native speakers would find it very strange.

You already have a few people (including a native speaker) telling you this. It's your call what to do with that advice, but you may want to at least consider the possibility that you might be mistaken.

Harvey · 24 Jan 2005

Naw, it's a competition.

I'm pretty sure I hear both minna-san and mina-san. I'll ask around again today. I'm curious. I didn't know that epingne was native!

Also like I mentioned...

Hrm... I swear I have heard みんなさん around.

Hah. I win.

Look.
みんなさん、本当に心から感謝します。 | 天澤故の日常 - 楽天ブログ
Quote:
みんなさんの温かい言葉に本当に感動しました。
私は平気です。

☆見た、聞いた。みんなさんも結構面白い
Quote:
☆見た、聞いた。みんなさんも結構面白い

このタルの墨度は９９．９９%：みんなさん～元気？【エレの昔、その一】
Quote:
みんなさん～元気？【エレの昔、その一】

Hah. I win.

Even if it's officially incorrect, it's used by enough native Japanese that it's fine by me!

I've gotten lazy with my Japanese up to a point. For example, I hardly bother with keigo anymore... bad thing but... When native Japanese often can't answer my questions I tend to stop caring and get on with other more important things.

I see your point with the natives making mistakes in blogs just like any other people, but rather than the their they're there thing, I think the minasan minnasa thing is closer to a gonna gotta have to thing. If you catch my drift.

ファイト！

Glenn · 24 Jan 2005

By the way, it's actually two natives who say that it's mina-san and not minna-san. Check the link below again, and look at who wrote the message.

Glenn said:
Minor correction: it's not みんなさん, but みなさん.

Elizabeth · 24 Jan 2005

Harvey said:
Naw, it's a competition.

I'm pretty sure I hear both minna-san and mina-san. I'll ask around again today. I'm curious. I didn't know that epingne was native!

You must have pretty sensitive ears to be able to pick up on that subtle a distinction in normal conversation....in certain cases it may be drawn out for effect, I'm not really sure but will try to ask around as well. We'll see who has the better contacts.

PaulTB · 24 Jan 2005

Harvey said:
I can't let that slide.

It really really doesn't matter.

There's a difference between
"Sometimes people say ___ as well." and
"It really really doesn't matter."

There are 93,900 Google hits for
"how r u"
but it really, really does matter whether you use "how are you" or "how r u".

Harvey · 24 Jan 2005

By the way, it's actually two natives who say that it's mina-san and not minna-san. Check the link below again, and look at who wrote the message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
Minor correction: it's not みんなさん, but みなさん.

Here is his picture.
__________________

その他、科学全般に興味があります。今特に気に入っているのは言語学です。私は英語が好きで英語で書いたり話したりするのが好きなのですが、一番好きなのは日本語です。

Crap. He's not even a native speaker!

I think I might lose this competition.

But, I'm still standing in my burning tree fort to say that even though it's not proper written Japanese, that many many Japanese "say" みんなさん。 Isn't it funny though how it's so common that you can even do kanji henkan from minna-san to 皆さん？

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