To better understand Kanji (Very important to me)

[nekojita]

There's a big difference between knowing (to read) and knowing (to write). Most people will be able to read/recognise a lot of characters that they might have trouble hand-writing, especially since people now hand-write a lot less than they used to. Native speakers are also a lot better at understanding stuff through context, so if there are one or two unfamiliar kanji in a text it doesn't necessarily mean they can't read it.

 

[Angel Valis]

Great!
By you two standard. I can now claim to know all the Joyo kanji since I have read Japanese newspaper, even though I have no chance of passing Kanken 2.
Of course, reading newspaper is a more accurate test of one's Kanji ability than Kanji Kentei.

I never said that taking the test wasn't a BETTER way of testing a person's ability. But perhaps it would be good to consider how difficult those tests are.

The following information was collected from a tofugu.com article about the Kanji Kentei tests.
Kanji Kentei level 2 (there are 10 levels by the way, with 10 as the easiest and 1 as the hardest):

Covers all joyo kanji + the 284 kanji used in names.
You have to know on'yomi, kun'yomi, and stroke order
You have to be able to write them
You must be able to use them in sentences
You must know the names of the radicals
Must be able to identify antonyms
Must be able to identify synonyms
Must be able to differentiate between homonyms
You are tested on idiomatic expressions
You have to be able to read multiple-kanji compounds (up to about 4 characters in length)
Must know the radicals used to use a kanji dictionary
You are tested on special and unusual readings
You are tested on ateji
You are tested on complex radicals
And you are tested on special compound kanji words.

That is a ridiculous amount of information to have mastery over.

As I previously said, most Japanese people may not be able to detail all of this information, but in context, they will be able to recognize and read words which use them. The ability for Japanese people to write kanji is declining because of computers and cell phones, but they still tend to use the correct kanji because they can visually recognize it.

So okay, Japanese people probably "know" fewer than 2000 kanji in depth, but when it comes to reading (which is the whole point of written language), Japanese people can make use of several thousand kanji. I don't know all of the Latin/Greek/German/French etc. root words in English, yet I seem to be able to speak and read it quite well.

In my personal opinion, if you can read a newspaper or book in Japanese without having to constantly look up the kanji, then YES, you do know the joyo kanji. They have served their purpose as a writing system.

 

[FinancialWar]

The following information was collected from a tofugu.com article about the Kanji Kentei tests.
Kanji Kentei level 2 (there are 10 levels by the way, with 10 as the easiest and 1 as the hardest):

Covers all joyo kanji + the 284 kanji used in names.
You have to know on'yomi, kun'yomi, and stroke order
You have to be able to write them
You must be able to use them in sentences
You must know the names of the radicals
Must be able to identify antonyms
Must be able to identify synonyms
Must be able to differentiate between homonyms
You are tested on idiomatic expressions
You have to be able to read multiple-kanji compounds (up to about 4 characters in length)
Must know the radicals used to use a kanji dictionary
You are tested on special and unusual readings
You are tested on ateji
You are tested on complex radicals
And you are tested on special compound kanji words.

That is a ridiculous amount of information to have mastery over.

Your lack of knowledge can only be surpassed by your research ability, why would anyone research information from unreliable third party with outdated data instead of official Kanken?

There are 12 Kanken levels, not 10. (10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, pre 2, 2, pre 1, 1). The Joyo kanji list was updated in 2010, from 1945 kanji to 2136 Kanji. Kanken exams are now based on the new Joyo list. Kanken 2 no longer test name Kanji (人名用), it tests all the Joyo 2136 but no more.

http://www.kanken.or.jp/teido/pdf/national_list.pdf

 

[Angel Valis]

Your lack of knowledge can only be surpassed by your research ability, why would anyone research information from unreliable third party with outdated data instead of official Kanken?

Maybe because at the time I didn't know the website, didn't think that a post on a forum was a university dissertation, and I was only trying to make a very simple point that not passing these tests doesn't mean that you don't have practical knowledge of kanji. That's like saying I don't know what a cell is (or couldn't recognize one under a microscope) because I can't name every single organelle and its function; failing a test about cellular biology just means I'm not an expert on the subject.

There are 12 Kanken level (10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, pre 2, 2, pre 1, 1). Not 10. The Joyo kanji list was updated in 2010, from 1945 kanji to 2136 Kanji. Kanken exams are now based on the new Joyo list. Kanken 2 no longer test name Kanji (ﾂ人窶督ｼ窶廃), it tests all the Joyo 2136 but no more.

http://www.kanken.or.jp/teido/pdf/national_list.pdf

Please research with care and make sure your information is updated and correct.

Okay, sorry that I didn't get the absolute most accurate information, but you're missing the point (and yes there are 12 levels, sorry for missing the "pre" levels and just put down the number of the lowest level *rolls eyes*). I was simply stating that those tests are way more comprehensive than you need to get by. That, and that you don't need to pass any of these tests to be able to say you "know" kanji. Only 23% of Level 2 test takers may pass, but not everyone in the country takes these exams, and they still get by reading newspapers, magazines and books without needing to have a kanji dictionary with them at all times. They have the practical, real world knowledge needed to use these characters in their everyday lives.

If it makes you feel any better, here is the updated information for level 2, I hope that's good enough. Still seems very comprehensive to me.

Updated information from ﾂ催?窶冂窶邸ﾂ人 窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡窶拿窶氾最椎ｸ窶凖ｨ窶ｹﾂｦ窶ｰﾃｯ
Level 2 requirements:

Target number of kanji:
ﾂ坂?堋校窶伉ｲ窶ｹﾃ?・窶佚･ﾅ?wﾂ・ﾋ?ｪ窶敕岩?凖ｶ窶忸ﾂ（2136ﾅｽﾅ｡
High School Graduation / University / General standard (2136 characters)

Degree:
窶堋ｷ窶堙冷?堙??堙個湘ｭ窶廃ﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡窶堙ｰ窶板昶?ｰﾃｰ窶堋ｵﾂ、窶｢ﾂｶﾂ湘坂?堙娯?吮??窶堙??廳ﾂ静倪?堙嫁ｽg窶堋ｦ窶堙ｩﾂ。
Understand all of the joyo kanji, and use them appropriately in sentences.

Primary testing points:
ﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡窶堙娯?愿??堙 - Kanji readings
ﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡窶堙個鞘?佛ｽﾃｦ - Kanji transcription (from spoken material)
窶｢窶敘ｽﾃｱﾂ・窶｢窶敘ｽﾃｱ窶督ｼ - Radicals / Radical names
窶倪?披?堙ｨ窶ｰﾂｼ窶督ｼ - Okurigana
窶佚寂?ｹ`ﾅ津ｪﾂ・窶氾樞?ｹ`ﾅ津ｪ - Antonyms / Synonyms
窶慊ｯ窶ｰﾂｹﾂ・窶慊ｯﾅ単ﾋ?卩ｽﾅ｡ - Homonyms
ﾅ津ｫﾅｽﾅ｡窶凖ｹﾂ青ｳ - Typo correction
ﾅｽlﾅｽﾅ｡ﾂ熟ﾅ津ｪ - Four character idiomatic compounds
ﾂ熟ﾅ津ｪ窶堙個構ﾂ青ｬ - Idiom formation