Sudden tests of your Japanese skill...

yukio_michael · 22 Jun 2007

basuotoko said:
But she also said that a "strange" American guy once walked up to her out of the blue and started speaking in Japanese, and it made her feel uneasy.

Generally speaking that sounds creepy to me too... It says, "hello", I'm interested in you first and foremost because of your race... Maybe he thought he would impress her.

basuotoko said:
In Japan, everyone and their mom wants to speak English which can be annoying for foreigners trying to be taken seriously, while in America, you know, like less than 1% of the population knows Japanese from Greek.

Yeah, it's a shame that so little sinks in... it's part and parcel of Nova and other business first, language second schools... Imagine conversation schools advertising on television, oh wait---- that's NOVA. But in a way I think it fits Japan, because its rarely used outside--- those who are interested in learning English will do so, though probably not through Nova... there's enough English written on clothing and magazines, and other such consumables that a little bit helps... It seems even though there is a stigma to knowing "too much" English... it's a lot like Kanji is in the United States, used as a sort of as a cultural gimmick.

I'll be getting a chance to go back to my Japanese language meetings this weekend as I finally have a day off during one of the meets, so I'll have some chance to parlez vous the nihongo... And thank god no, none of my subjects of interests include Dragon Ball Z.

SushiShin · 22 Jun 2007

tanhql said:
if i'm not wrong, it means 'your bowtie is a bit strange. can you let me touch it?'

Is this correct ☝ ?? because charles barkley wrote something but my kanji isn't strong enough to translate that :sorry:

The7thSamurai · 22 Jun 2007

I've been called okyakusan. I can't understand what you're all going on about with it?

Charles Barkley · 22 Jun 2007

Actually, I was wrong. Tried to make a joke but used the wrong word. Going to crawl back into hiding now. And then correct my vocab card. The good thing about these kind of mistakes is that embarassment helps you remember.

失敗は成功の元だな

Also, anyone struggling with kanji might consider the rikaichan plugin for firefox. Move the cursor over a word and it translates. I have heard its helpful, but never tried it myself because my place of employment uses weird internet restrictions.

FrustratedDave · 22 Jun 2007

None of you obviously live in the kansai region, I could not tell you how many places use "okyakusan". Actually, I have been called "あんた" by a fat おばはん before! LOL before! LOL

Mikawa Ossan · 23 Jun 2007

FrustratedDave said:
None of you obviously live in the kansai region, I could not tell you how many places use "okyakusan". Actually, I have been called "あんた" by a fat おばはん before! LOL before! LOL

Kansai....well, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but when giving out general Japanese advice, etc., I try to stick with what I understand to be "standard" Japanese. That and anytime I've ever had to address customers on the job, it has always been "okyakusama" or the wrath of an angry god would befall me!

FrustratedDave · 23 Jun 2007

Mikawa Ossan said:
Kansai....well, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but when giving out general Japanese advice, etc., I try to stick with what I understand to be "standard" Japanese. That and anytime I've ever had to address customers on the job, it has always been "okyakusama" or the wrath of an angry god would befall me!

Sorry Mikawa, It was not my intention to be giving out advice. Just an experience from a kansai boy. Everyone is right sama should be used.

Mikawa Ossan · 23 Jun 2007

FrustratedDave said:
Sorry Mikawa, It was not my intention to be giving out advise. Just an experience from a kansai boy. Everyone is right sama should be used.

No, don't misunderstand me. It is a great point that in Kansai, people speak differently! I may ignore regional variation often when talking about the Japanese language in general, but we should never forget that they do indeed exsist!

I commend you for pointing that out in the first place!

Elizabeth · 23 Jun 2007

It seems the more complicated Japanese you might use, the more you can get yourself in neck deep... had I said, "Okyakusan, hai, irasshaimasen".... and that's not very complex, just "okyakusan" which isnt very well known (I mean as a casual vocab phrase) as "customer".... that I could have gotten myself into one of those conversations where they thought I was more fluent than I was (which was sort of like what happened at the start as always!)....

You mean the customer greeting "irasshaimase" ? (いらっしゃいませ) as in "Welcome !" "Good day/ evening!" shouted outside restaurants and inside shops, right ?

Mikawa Ossan · 23 Jun 2007

Charles Barkley said:
だいたい正しい。もう一度当ててごらん。
（メッセージは小さすぎるか。何でそんな条件）

Please stay on topic, and writing in Japanese in the English part of the forum is rude and frowned upon. Please keep the Japanese posts in the Japanese section.

FrustratedDave · 23 Jun 2007

Mikawa Ossan said:
No, don't misunderstand me. It is a great point that in Kansai, people speak differently! I may ignore regional variation often when talking about the Japanese language in general, but we should never forget that they do indeed exist!
I commend you for pointing that out in the first place!

Thanks Mikawa. We sure do speak differently down here, actually I don't really know hyoujyungo (標準語）, it is quite embarrassing.

yukio_michael · 23 Jun 2007

Elizabeth said:
You mean the customer greeting "irasshaimase" ? (いらっしゃいませ) as in "Welcome !" "Good day/ evening!" shouted outside restaurants and inside shops, right ?

Yep Yep! I don't know why I sometimes think there is a syllabic nasal n at the end of that word from time to time... but, I often do... Thanks for reminding me! Something you hear hundreds of times, but never use yourself...

Elizabeth · 23 Jun 2007

yukio_michael said:
Yep Yep! I don't know why I sometimes think there is a syllabic nasal n at the end of that word from time to time... but, I often do... Thanks for reminding me! Something you hear hundreds of times, but never use yourself...

いらっしゃいません＝Will not come, go, you are not (honorific)....(Negative indicative)
いらっしゃいませ＝Come ! Go ! (Imperative command)

yukio_michael · 24 Jun 2007

Well, at least I wasn't making up a word that doesn't exist...! Thanks Elizabeth, your help is always appreciated!

Elizabeth · 24 Jun 2007

yukio_michael said:
Well, at least I wasn't making up a word that doesn't exist...! Thanks Elizabeth, your help is always appreciated!

On occasion you'll also hear what sounds more like いらっしゃいます and that if possible can be cut even deeper to simply らっしゃい。

語尾までしっかり発音しない店員が多いからね。(It's because a lot of sales people don't follow through to the end of the word very strongly...).

Petenshber · 28 Jun 2007

That's nice to hear yukio, i think it's largely "because" you don't speak it fluently that they appreciated your effort and that you managed to communicate anyway. Since there are no Japanese people where i live, i don't get opportunities to test myself like that, so i haven't a clue how well i would do.

yukio_michael · 28 Jun 2007

Coincidentally, I was reading some text the other day about honorific speech, and specifically, okyakusan was mentioned, but there was no mention at all of okyakusama... Are we in agreement here that at the business level okyakusama is preferred, and okyakusan (though, say, in Mizu Shoubai, service industries, maid cafes, etcetera... okyakusama wouldn't be unnatural), ---okyakusan is fine at the retail level.

Mikawa Ossan · 28 Jun 2007

If the text was talking about customers, rather than addressing them, then the -sama is entirely unnecessary, and hence the -san ending.

Elizabeth · 28 Jun 2007

yukio_michael said:
Coincidentally, I was reading some text the other day about honorific speech, and specifically, okyakusan was mentioned, but there was no mention at all of okyakusama... Are we in agreement here that at the business level okyakusama is preferred, and okyakusan (though, say, in Mizu Shoubai, service industries, maid cafes, etcetera... okyakusama wouldn't be unnatural), ---okyakusan is fine at the retail level.

If you're asking what you, yukio_michael, should you use as a greeting, stick with "okyakusan" unless you plan on continuing to address these people in humble form. Also keep in mind, particularly from a foreigner with limited skills, okyakusama as the first words out of your mouth could come off as seriously overpolite -- meaning sarcastic or flippant.

yukio_michael · 28 Jun 2007

Elizabeth said:
Also keep in mind, particularly from a foreigner with limited skills, okyakusama as the first words out of your mouth could come off as seriously overpolite -- meaning sarcastic or flippant.

Or unintentionally humourous.

Petenshber · 30 Jun 2007

Good point, in some cases using -sama could be like calling a 5-year old "sir", it would just sound strange.

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