Some words not written in Kanji

-悪魔- · 23 Jul 2004

Why is it that there are some words that are not written in Kanji even though there is Kanji for it?

Such as あなた、つもり、ください、かわいい、かっこいい、etc.. I'm sure there's tons of more examples.

PaulTB · 23 Jul 2004

-悪魔- said:
Why is it that there are some words that are not written in Kanji even though there is Kanji for it?

Such as あなた、つもり、ください、かわいい、かっこいい、etc.. I'm sure there's tons of more examples.

Lots of reasons.
1. Horrible kanji to write.
2. Horrible kanji to read.
3. Kanji that isn't part of the set in 'official' use. おくびょう not 臆病
4. Kanji words that could be read in several ways. こんにちは not 今日は
5. Words with different pronunciation to the official one. カッコいい not 格好いい (かっこういい)
6. Just because.

Mike Cash · 23 Jul 2004

7. They are written in kanji. He just doesn't have wide enough reading experience yet.

PaulTB · 23 Jul 2004

mikecash said:
7. They are written in kanji. He just doesn't have wide enough reading experience yet.

Hmm, true enough but I think by "not written in kanji" he means "not written in kanji right there in that sentence" instead of "not written in kanji anywhere in the known universe"

... I'll spare you the smiley this time (I'm worried I'll push you over the edge into assicon retaliation).

jonny-mt · 23 Jul 2004

There are plenty of examples for common Japanese words that can be written in kanji but are not. Generally, it's because either the kanji have fallen out of popular use or they are so old as to be archaic, making their meanings almost irrelevant. There are also instances where it is more appropriate to choose the hiragana over the kanji because the usage does not quite fit the kanji meaning. ～てくる is a good example.

暑くなってきた - It got warm.
彼はビールを持って来るそうだ。 - I heard he was bringing beer.

In the first instance, although people would certainly know what you mean if you wrote 暑くなって来た, it doesn't quite work because the heat is not physically coming...the change occurred relative to your point in time, so it is coming in an abstract sense. However, in the second sentence the subject/topic (彼) is coming in a physical sense, and so you it makes perfect sense to use the kanji.

You need to know roughly 2500 kanji to be able to function fully in Japanese. There are many thousands more than this, but not even native Japanese know them because they are not used on a daily basis. This is most certainly a case where you should go with the convention.

PaulTB · 23 Jul 2004

jonny-mt said:
You need to know roughly 2500 kanji to be able to function fully in Japanese.

I vote for 2,274 kanji whose ON readings are used in common words (excluding Proper Names). Then there's about ~30 or so* that are only used in common names with KUN readings followed by a small handful of kanji that are only used in common words with irregular readings.

* Actual figures still to be determined.

-悪魔- · 23 Jul 2004

Wow, it seems that I touched upon a touchy subject.

Elizabeth · 23 Jul 2004

There are also instances where it is more appropriate to choose the hiragana over the kanji because the usage does not quite fit the kanji meaning. ～てくる is a good example.

Another reason might be that hiragana or katakana are generally perceived to be more inviting, friendlier and less intimidating than their harsher, bolder respective kanji. It's very context dependent, but in a casual setting between intimates, therefore, you tend to see ボク or キミ more than 僕、君, かわいい not 可愛い, ください not 下さい etc. although IME can be a real hassle to click the wrong selection as you're scrolling down so there are just shorthand rules of thumb -- nothing hard and fast.

Mike Cash · 24 Jul 2004

PaulTB said:
Hmm, true enough but I think by "not written in kanji" he means "not written in kanji right there in that sentence" instead of "not written in kanji anywhere in the known universe"

Since he didn't provide a(ny) sentence(s), I had trouble making that particular leap.

... I'll spare you the smiley this time (I'm worried I'll push you over the edge into assicon retaliation).

Like this?

(_*_)

Buntaro · 25 Jul 2004

Hi everybody!

It think it is part intentional, and part unintentional, but the Japanese language is becoming simplified over the years, especially when it comes to the topic of eliminating kanji. Thank God!

Years ago I wrote a book in Japanese, and I made the (beginner's?) mistake of squeezing every kanji in there that I could. You should have heard the complaints! The one that immediately comes to mind is kega suru, or to be injured. I was scolded, and told to NEVER write that in kanji, but only in hiragana. Most of my readers could not read the kanji for kega suru. I was shocked!

All in all, I think that the slow removal of kanji over the years is a good thing.

(Oh, yeah, everybody who could not read "kega suru" in kanji at that time were Japanese football players....)

~~~

How many people out there know the kanji for doko, koko, kore, naze, dore, etc?

PaulTB · 25 Jul 2004

Buntaro said:
How many people out there know the kanji for doko, koko, kore, naze, dore, etc?

I do.
But only to read, not to write.

jonny-mt · 26 Jul 2004

I see naze written in kanji a fair amount, but I can't say I've ever seen any of the others.

Buntaro · 26 Jul 2004

The others exist, and I was blown away one day when I saw some of them. They are perfect examples of Kanji that been eliminated over the years.

PaulTB · 26 Jul 2004

Buntaro said:
It think it is part intentional, and part unintentional, but the Japanese language is becoming simplified over the years, especially when it comes to the topic of eliminating kanji. Thank God!

I wouldn't be too sure of that. First of all I have quite a few Japanese books published 30, 40 years ago. The kanji / kana ratio is not noticeably higher than similar text published recently. What is the case is that I notice a few kanji used that I don't recall seeing recently - these mostly appear to be where there are several different kanji possible for a word.

Incidentally 怪我 is actually very commonly written in kanji on the Internet. This brings me to my second point - starting around 1980 it has rapidly become much more easy to enter kanji in computer form. Early computers and games tended to be in kana only, just as the earliest mobile phone text systems. Now IME systems are increasingly sophisticated so that when typing there's very little effort involved in entering kanji.

Lastly the number of kanji officially sanctioned for use has increased quite a bit recently with the changes to the allowable name kanji and there are quite a lot of kanji that aren't in the 当用漢字表 that are in common use. e.g. 齟齬.

Some words not written in Kanji

-悪魔-

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

jonny-mt

無限馬鹿

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

-悪魔-

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Buntaro

運動不足

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

jonny-mt

無限馬鹿

Buntaro

運動不足

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

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