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Short pieces from Yosano Akiko

karenk

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Moderator's note: This thread is derived from Shanghai by Yokomitsu Riichi

Hi, Tori, I'm taking a short break from the male authors and I'm translating some short pieces from Yosano Akiko. How do you think that I should translate 高きへ憧れる心 ? Would "A heart that loves heights" be okay? 心 is always tricky, "heart", "mind", "spirit" which would be more comprehensive? Thank you!
 
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Toritoribe

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Yes, I, too, thought "love" might not be appropriate. "To long/yearn for" would be better.
 

karenk

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Hi, Tori! How would you translate 物質的 here: 早く親に別れる運命を持つてゐて物質的には苦むであらうが、その文學的であることが、人知れず一生の慰安となるかも知れない。"She might be destined to loose her parents early and she might suffer physically/materially...." And does 早く親に別れる imply that her parents are to die early or that she is the one who would die?
 

Toritoribe

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I moved our posts.:)

Hi, Tori! How would you translate 物質的 here: 早く親に別れる運命を持つてゐて物質的には苦むであらうが、その文學的であることが、人知れず一生の慰安となるかも知れない。"She might be destined to loose her parents early and she might suffer physically/materially...."
It implies "financially".

And does 早く親に別れる imply that her parents are to die early or that she is the one who would die?
It's the former. She is the youngest daughter, thus, she was born when Akiko and Tekkan were relatively old (40 and 45, respectively).
 

karenk

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I moved our posts.:)

I noticed, thank you! (Although I don't know if I will translate some other piece of hers)

It's the former. She is the youngest daughter, thus, she was born when Akiko and Tekkan were relatively old (40 and 45, respectively).

Yes, that's what I thought. I was surprised when I read that she gave birth to 13 children, of which, apparently only 2 sons survived. So sad.

Thank you again!
 

karenk

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One more question about this short piece, does 明けて十一 mean that her daughter has just turned 11 years old? And does 仙女 mean "lady"? The passage is: 併し東坡の心には酒があるので、紅梅を見ても微醺を帶びた仙女を聨想したが、私には此の冬枯の庭にある木のなかで、此の紅梅だけが明けて十一になつた末の娘のやうな氣がする
 

Toritoribe

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It's 年が明けて十一になつた, i.e., she became 11 yeas old when the new year started. As you might know, 数え年 was used in that era, so people grew a year older on every new year's day, not on the birthday.

仙女 is the female version of 仙人. 天女 would be close, just in my impression.
 

karenk

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It's 年が明けて十一になつた, i.e., she became 11 yeas old when the new year started. As you might know, 数え年 was used in that era, so people grew a year older on every new year's day, not on the birthday.

To tell the truth, I new the Japanese used to be a year older, but I assumed that the counting started on the birthday. 😅

仙女 is the female version of 仙人. 天女 would be close, just in my impression.

A nymph then? Or a girl of eery beauty...

Thank you!
 

Toritoribe

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It's the former, of course.:ROFLMAO:
Like this picture, in my image.
sennyo.jpg
 

karenk

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Hi, I was re-reading my translation and have a doubt about this passage:

正月二日のはげしいから風で紅梅が大分吹き散らされた。さうして末の娘はその夕方から熱を出して寢てゐる、私は今朝も娘の寢臺の傍で人から來た賀状を讀みながら、猶をりをり窓越しに紅梅を眺めてゐる。

一九二九・一・二
She wrote this text on Jan. 2nd, right? Is Jan. 2nd the same as 正月二日? Because, in my mind, it was the strong wind on Jan. 2nd that blew the plum flowers and it was in the evening of this day that her daughter started to have a fever, so she couldn't be writing about these events in the morning of Jan. 2nd, right? What I'm missing here?

 

Toritoribe

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Yes, 正月二日 is the same as January 2nd, i.e., 一・二. Hmm, what I can think of is that she actually wrote it on 一・三, i.e., January 3rd.
 

karenk

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Hi, Tori! Could I say that 或物は is something like "on one hand/on the other hand"? Is it similar to 一方? Thanks!

論者が「女らしさ」といっているものは、或物は、一地方的のものであり、時に由って変化するものであって、決して私たちの生活を支配するような権威を持っているものでなく、また或物は、女子特有のものでなくて、人間全体に一貫して備っている人間性そのものであることが明白になりました。
 

karenk

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Hi, what is the difference between 育て得る and 育ち得る? Can I translate this passage as "even if the majority of men and women become parents, even if it they are decided to raise their children, it is not a given that they will be able to do it"? Or is it too far off?

 しかもまた、論者に注意したいことは、人間は必ずしも人の親になるとも定まっていないということです。また、大多数の男女が親になるとしても、その子供を必ず育て得るものとも定まらねば、その子供が必ず育ち得るものと限っていないということです。もし女子が母とならないために「女らしさ」を失うというなら、男子も父とならないため「男らしさ」を失うといわねばならないでしょう。世間には先天的もしくは後天的のいろいろの事情に由って、結婚をせず、結婚をしても子供を生まない男女があります。
 

karenk

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I just wanted to clarify my understanding of the passage above because my translation is awfully confusing, what I gathered was basically that even if men and women become parents, if they don't have the means to raise their children, it is not a given that they can actually bring them up. Is it more or less so?

And could you explain the grammar behind: 表現されもする? Is is just rhetorical or does it have a meaning?

社会にはまた、昔から、或種の活動に専心して、わざと家庭を作らない男女もあります。何事も個人の自由意志に任すべきものですから、そういう人たちに生殖生活を強要することも出来ません。その人たちは、家庭の楽み以上に、自己の専門的生活を評価しているのです。それでこそ、その人たちの人間性が完全に表現されもするのです。世界人類の中に、そういう人たちの貢献があるので、昔も今も、どれだけ文化行程の飛躍を示したか知れません。私は、人類の中にそういう人たちのまじっていることを例外とせず、望ましい配剤として、肯定したいと思います。
 

Toritoribe

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what is the difference between 育て得る and 育ち得る? Can I translate this passage as "even if the majority of men and women become parents, even if it they are decided to raise their children, it is not a given that they will be able to do it"?
定まらねば is not a conditional "if". This ば is for contrasting or listing.

1 [接助]
ば の解説
4 文語で已然形に付く。
イ 二つの事態を対照的に表す。
「鏑 (かぶら) は海へ入りけれ―、扇は空へぞあがりける」


ア (口語で仮定形に付いて)共存する事柄を並列・列挙する意を表す。「野球もすればテニスもする」「きれいな空もあれば澄んだ空気もある」


育ち得る is a potential form of the intransitive verb 育つ, i.e., the subject is 子供.

その子供を必ず育て得るものとも定まらねば、その子供が必ず育ち得るものと限っていない
= その子供を必ず育てられるものと定まってもいないし、その子供が必ず育つことができるものと限ってもいない

even if the majority of men and women become parents, it is not decided that they can raise their children, and it is not a given that children can grow up, either.

could you explain the grammar behind: 表現されもする? Is is just rhetorical or does it have a meaning?
As you must know, 表現されもする is "表現される + も (= too/also)".

They 家庭の楽み以上に、自己の専門的生活を評価している, therefore その人たちの人間性 is also expressed perfectly.
 

karenk

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Thank you for taking your time to explain everything so throughly, Tori!

This "ba" is from the classical Japanese? Is it still in use?
 
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