cicatriz esp
後輩
- 21 Aug 2004
- 225
- 6
These days? The Koreans would eat the Japanese for lunch.
Re: POLL - Can South Korea militarily defeat Japan?
- Thread starter Hiroshi66
- Start date
- 21 May 2003
- 14,310
- 4,404
Does Anyone Know ......
if Koreans are allowed to own guns as a private citizen? A big handicap in battle would be lack of gun handling knowledge. Here in the US almost everyone has had a chance to own & fire guns;there are probably more civilian owned guns then military owned. Most Japanese I've met handle a gun like a dead skunk and want nothing to do with them. Anyway, if the Koreans are used to guns & shooting, I'd have to bet on them.
Frank
:?
if Koreans are allowed to own guns as a private citizen? A big handicap in battle would be lack of gun handling knowledge. Here in the US almost everyone has had a chance to own & fire guns;there are probably more civilian owned guns then military owned. Most Japanese I've met handle a gun like a dead skunk and want nothing to do with them. Anyway, if the Koreans are used to guns & shooting, I'd have to bet on them.
Frank
:?
Foxtrot Uniform
*censored*
- 30 May 2004
- 210
- 5
Frank D. White said:
I'm not an expert on Korea, but I think that it is against the law for a citizen to own a gun in Korea (unless you have a liscense for hunting).
The Korean army is extremely skilled in fighting hand-to-hand because they are trained in taekwondo, and they are also skilled in using the M-16 assault rifle.
OK the United States has self-destructed in an orgy of violence after it was announced that petrol would have to be rationed to one liter a week per household.
In the resulting world-wide economic collapse a confrontation between Spain and the UK over ownership of Gibraltar(sp?) finally forced the fragile EU to fall apart.
Meanwhile a small nuclear bomb made from material smuggled out of Russia under the noses of the now even more incompetant security forces is detonated in the UN headquarters when the UN was in full session.
China erupts in civil war after the Dalai Lama is assasinated with circumstantial evidence heavily pointing at a PRC agent.
In the midst of all this confusion South Korea decides to invade Japan to distract the restless masses from the collapse of virtually all manufacturing industries with the lack of a market for cheap electronic goods.
*..... deep breath .....*
So, Now what happens.
[EDIT]
P.S. Next time can we have a more sensible question like "Who would win in a fist fight - Sailor Uranus or Batman?"
In the resulting world-wide economic collapse a confrontation between Spain and the UK over ownership of Gibraltar(sp?) finally forced the fragile EU to fall apart.
Meanwhile a small nuclear bomb made from material smuggled out of Russia under the noses of the now even more incompetant security forces is detonated in the UN headquarters when the UN was in full session.
China erupts in civil war after the Dalai Lama is assasinated with circumstantial evidence heavily pointing at a PRC agent.
In the midst of all this confusion South Korea decides to invade Japan to distract the restless masses from the collapse of virtually all manufacturing industries with the lack of a market for cheap electronic goods.
*..... deep breath .....*
So, Now what happens.
[EDIT]
P.S. Next time can we have a more sensible question like "Who would win in a fist fight - Sailor Uranus or Batman?"
Gaki
Emperor Gakihito
- 3 Jul 2003
- 511
- 20
PaulTB said:OK the United States has self-destructed in an orgy of violence after it was announced that petrol would have to be rationed to one liter a week per household.
In the resulting world-wide economic collapse a confrontation between Spain and the UK over ownership of Gibraltar(sp?) finally forced the fragile EU to fall apart.
Meanwhile a small nuclear bomb made from material smuggled out of Russia under the noses of the now even more incompetant security forces is detonated in the UN headquarters when the UN was in full session.
China erupts in civil war after the Dalai Lama is assasinated with circumstantial evidence heavily pointing at a PRC agent.
In the midst of all this confusion South Korea decides to invade Japan to distract the restless masses from the collapse of virtually all manufacturing industries with the lack of a market for cheap electronic goods.
*..... deep breath .....*
So, Now what happens.
[EDIT]
Oh oh i know i know !!
Bill and Ted come along and save the world with ROCK AND ROLL !!!!!!!!!! \m/- [>_<] -\m/
shiroma
先輩
- 1 Mar 2004
- 481
- 18
plutonium this time
More Seoul Nuclear Work Revealed (CNN)
Seoul Faces Fallout from Disclosures (BBC)
S. Korea Took Half Year to Admit Plutonium 窶 Diplomats (Reuters)
Axis of Evil now welcomes South Korea.
More Seoul Nuclear Work Revealed (CNN)
Seoul Faces Fallout from Disclosures (BBC)
S. Korea Took Half Year to Admit Plutonium 窶 Diplomats (Reuters)
Axis of Evil now welcomes South Korea.
cicatriz esp
後輩
- 21 Aug 2004
- 225
- 6
PaulTB said:
Israel has been a part of the "axis of evil" for years. Some of the crap they get away with boggles my mind, and it's all due to the fact that they are the US' ally. Time to take away that 3 billion dollars a year we give them, i think.
- 17 Jul 2002
- 5,907
- 385
I already posted it here, but I'll just copy and paste it :
I don't know why this idea that Japan is weak militarily because it doesn't have an offensive army is so persistent. We have discussed this in other threads (eg this one and Japan's defence budget is officially US$39,5 billion, which is the 4th largest in the world after the US (US$276 bn), China ($55,9 bn) and France ($46 bn). Source from the CIA World Factbook. In compaarison even South Korea ($14,5 bn) and especially North Korea ($5 bn) look ridiculous. Both combined have barely half Japan's military budget.
So South Korea couldn't defeat Japan, esp that Japan could draft more soldiers easily as its %age of people in the army is lower than in SK.
Anyway, it would depend on who attack who. Nowadays, I think the defender would have the victory, at least over the long term, because civilians would never idly accept foreign occupation by force (no, not even the Japanese ).
I don't know why this idea that Japan is weak militarily because it doesn't have an offensive army is so persistent. We have discussed this in other threads (eg this one and Japan's defence budget is officially US$39,5 billion, which is the 4th largest in the world after the US (US$276 bn), China ($55,9 bn) and France ($46 bn). Source from the CIA World Factbook. In compaarison even South Korea ($14,5 bn) and especially North Korea ($5 bn) look ridiculous. Both combined have barely half Japan's military budget.
So South Korea couldn't defeat Japan, esp that Japan could draft more soldiers easily as its %age of people in the army is lower than in SK.
Anyway, it would depend on who attack who. Nowadays, I think the defender would have the victory, at least over the long term, because civilians would never idly accept foreign occupation by force (no, not even the Japanese
).I agree with Maciamo. Not only that Japanese has more population, Japan is also much richer and technologically more advanced than South Korea. If Japan really attack South Korea, I don't think they stand a chance to win without foreign intervention. Korea is too small, and its population is also too little, its geographic position is also not very good. South Korea water is surrounded by Japan water, it is quite difficult for South Korea to get external resources if Japan were to set up a blockade...and South Korea will slowly run out of resources...Even if the two Koreas unite, I still think that Japan stand a chance to win both of them. If no nuclear is used. Throughout history, Korea has never won a war against Japan without external help. (I can't think of any, if I am wrong please tell me.)
I think South Korea's military power is the weakess in North East Asia.
I think South Korea's military power is the weakess in North East Asia.
stupidumboy
先輩
- 26 Jun 2004
- 126
- 6
Japan and Korea had war against each other only one time in the past history.
I meant the war that both countries fully fought against each other although there were frequent wars along the southern coast of the Korean peninsula-those were mostly between the small or middle sized troops involved fights.
I would just skipped the case when Japan had sent supportive troops into Baekjae dynasty or their trying to invade on the southern part of the peninsula in the ancient history because at that time Korea was seperated into 3 parts .Actually both were resulted in defeats of Japanese troops by shinla-tang allied troops and Koguryo troops.
anyways it was very long time ago and when Koreanpeninsula was seperated into 3 parts.so I would skip this part of history.
Korea had winnings as well as defeats ,I cannot count them all.
at least I know Korea once invaded Tshushima island in the beginning part of the Chosun dynasty 1419.So I do not agree that Korea had only defeats against Japan.
*The Imjin war(from 1592 to 1598)-this is the real war between both countries -it was for 7 years lasted and big damage against Korea.The war had happened by the Hideyoshi's demand Joseon dynasty to open the road to the Chinese Ming's invasion.
Korea had big damages by Hideyoshi's invasion ,Japan failed to invade Korean peninsula for 7 years.but Joseon Dynasty fell into the dark age from this time since they had big damages on the most part of cultivatable lands and decreased of the population who can occupied for production activities.
I would say this war was the winning of Japan although they had to withdraw their troops after Hideyoshi's death. The Ming dynasty sent supportive troops in the midle part of this war when almost of the Korean peninsula was invaded by toyotomi troops(the reason why they hesiated to send supportive troops is that the Ming dynasty was on the thin ice at that time by the threatening of the manchu tribe from the noertheastern China),.and they made the Hideyoshi troops backdown to the Pyongyang but after their victory,they had constantly defeated and wanted to make a peace treaty with Hideyoshi troops but rejected by Hideyoshi.I would say Ming dynasty's supportive troops saved Chosun dynasty's from being down to the collapse.
I think from this time-Japanese national power started to show sign of being ahead of even China not to mention of Korea.The Japanese ground troops had the most number of winings but interestingly their navy did not so well and alsmost defeated by the Joseon navy.
-summary of the Imjin War-
The founder of Joseon Dynasty, King Taejo distinguished himself in his conquest of Japanese marauders. After the latter's depredations had ceased, Korea opened three ports for trade with Japanese feudal lords, giving investiture to the Tsushima lord who had been engaged in lucrative trade with other ranking Japanese. The Japanese liaison officers living at these ports caused trouble at times, however, and the amount of Joseon's grant was reduced.
In Japan, after the assassination of Oda Nobunaga , who temporarily called a truce among Japan's warring lords, Toyotomi Hideyoshi rose to power in 1590. Hideyoshi needed to find a way to weaken the powerful feudal lords in the western part of Japan. In this explosive domestic situation, he looked abroad and decided that an invasion of China would provide the outlet needed to obtain a peaceful solution at home. When Joseon rejected Hideyoshi's request for aid in attacking China, he ordered his generals to invade Ming and Joseon in 1592. The Japanese army, armed with matchlock guns with which Joseon soldiers were not familiar, reached Hanyang within a few weeks. They had attempted to invade the granary Jeolla-do Province, only to meet the strong resistance of the people led by General Kim Si-min at Jinju. They then turned back towards Hanyang.
King Seonjo and the royal princes fled to the northern provinces and appealed to the Ming Emperor for aid against the invaders. The Japanese generals squabbled among themselves, while Joseon's Admiral Yi Sun-sin conducted a brilliant series of operations in the South Sea, destroying many Japanese ships. The ironclad Geobukseon (turtle ships), which Admiral Yi improved with plated armor resembling a turtle shell, protected the sailors and marines, and were more than a match for anything else afloat.
With the appearance of allied Ming contingents, the Japanese were forced to fight a combined Ming-Joseon army. Cut off from supplies and reinforcements owing to Admiral Yi's control of the sea, the Japanese were severely weakened. A Joseon volunteer army organized in the southern provinces harassed them with guerrilla tactics, while disease and malnutrition took its toll. Peace negotiations were held between the Ming general and the Japanese, who had by then lost the will to fight and started to retreat, stalked by volunteer peasant forces and contingents of Buddhist monks.
Peace negotiations dragged on for five years but proved fruitless, and Hideyoshi sent his army to Joseon again in 1597. The invasion this time encompassed only Gyeongsang-do province and part of the Jeolla-do province, as the invaders were intercepted by the volunteer army.
The Japanese retreated and Hideyoshi's death forced the withdrawal of his forces. Admiral Yi, in his attempt to smash the Japanese retreat, was struck by a stray bullet and killed during a climactic naval battle. The war ended at long last, with grave impact upon Joseon, Ming China and Japan.
Impact of the War
The results of the Hideyoshi invasion brought about the destruction of government records, cultural objects, archives, historical documents and many works of art, the devastation of land, decrease in population, and the loss of artisans and technicians. Arable land amounted to only one-third of the prewar acreage, and the resulting decrease of revenue necessitated additional taxation on less devastated provinces such as Gyeonggi-do or Chungcheong-do. The government resorted to selling official titles and yangban status, and on occasion, held an examination for government service open to the bondsman class. The loss of artisans brought a decline in handiwork quality, as well as in manufactured goods such as pottery and book printing. The Neo-Confucian norms and values were shaken, and the class distinctions which the yangban tried to uphold began to slowly crumble.
The Japanese, on the other hand, achieved a peaceful, centralized feudal society under Hideyoshi's successor, Tokugawa Ieyasu . Importation of the political philosophy of Neo-Confucianism and the study of medicinal materials and therapy developed in Joseon also helped Japanese scholars make significant contributions to their society. The introduction of typography with movable metal type expedited book printing, and Joseon artisans captured by the Japanese army developed ceramic and textile products. After the Tokugawa takeover, Japan wanted peaceful diplomatic relations with Joseon in order to benefit further from the Joseon version of Chinese culture.
For Ming China, however, the results were catastrophic. The economic setback suffered in the campaign later led to the collapse of the dynasty in 1644.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK back to the topic,Although I bet my money into Japanese winning carefully,I do not think it all depends on the military spending only.
Japan has better equipped with more advanced arms in the navy and AF such as AEGIS or AWACS units ,I find no significance unit difference in the Army.
But I think they have a fundamental to spend high budget into military spending since their force is consist of only the volunteers and the payment in japan is one of the higest.
But I do not think that will decide the winner absoutely.
I think if the ground forces are on the chances to face against each other between two countries' troops ,nobody can say the result easily.
The Korean soldiers were not good equipped during the vietnamese war but they made a good record thanks to their good trainng.
Although I agree that advanced unit of Navy and AF does matter to decide the winner ,still the ground units spirit does matter highly.
Just my 2 cents.
I meant the war that both countries fully fought against each other although there were frequent wars along the southern coast of the Korean peninsula-those were mostly between the small or middle sized troops involved fights.
I would just skipped the case when Japan had sent supportive troops into Baekjae dynasty or their trying to invade on the southern part of the peninsula in the ancient history because at that time Korea was seperated into 3 parts .Actually both were resulted in defeats of Japanese troops by shinla-tang allied troops and Koguryo troops.
anyways it was very long time ago and when Koreanpeninsula was seperated into 3 parts.so I would skip this part of history.
Korea had winnings as well as defeats ,I cannot count them all.
at least I know Korea once invaded Tshushima island in the beginning part of the Chosun dynasty 1419.So I do not agree that Korea had only defeats against Japan.
*The Imjin war(from 1592 to 1598)-this is the real war between both countries -it was for 7 years lasted and big damage against Korea.The war had happened by the Hideyoshi's demand Joseon dynasty to open the road to the Chinese Ming's invasion.
Korea had big damages by Hideyoshi's invasion ,Japan failed to invade Korean peninsula for 7 years.but Joseon Dynasty fell into the dark age from this time since they had big damages on the most part of cultivatable lands and decreased of the population who can occupied for production activities.
I would say this war was the winning of Japan although they had to withdraw their troops after Hideyoshi's death. The Ming dynasty sent supportive troops in the midle part of this war when almost of the Korean peninsula was invaded by toyotomi troops(the reason why they hesiated to send supportive troops is that the Ming dynasty was on the thin ice at that time by the threatening of the manchu tribe from the noertheastern China),.and they made the Hideyoshi troops backdown to the Pyongyang but after their victory,they had constantly defeated and wanted to make a peace treaty with Hideyoshi troops but rejected by Hideyoshi.I would say Ming dynasty's supportive troops saved Chosun dynasty's from being down to the collapse.
I think from this time-Japanese national power started to show sign of being ahead of even China not to mention of Korea.The Japanese ground troops had the most number of winings but interestingly their navy did not so well and alsmost defeated by the Joseon navy.
-summary of the Imjin War-
The founder of Joseon Dynasty, King Taejo distinguished himself in his conquest of Japanese marauders. After the latter's depredations had ceased, Korea opened three ports for trade with Japanese feudal lords, giving investiture to the Tsushima lord who had been engaged in lucrative trade with other ranking Japanese. The Japanese liaison officers living at these ports caused trouble at times, however, and the amount of Joseon's grant was reduced.
In Japan, after the assassination of Oda Nobunaga , who temporarily called a truce among Japan's warring lords, Toyotomi Hideyoshi rose to power in 1590. Hideyoshi needed to find a way to weaken the powerful feudal lords in the western part of Japan. In this explosive domestic situation, he looked abroad and decided that an invasion of China would provide the outlet needed to obtain a peaceful solution at home. When Joseon rejected Hideyoshi's request for aid in attacking China, he ordered his generals to invade Ming and Joseon in 1592. The Japanese army, armed with matchlock guns with which Joseon soldiers were not familiar, reached Hanyang within a few weeks. They had attempted to invade the granary Jeolla-do Province, only to meet the strong resistance of the people led by General Kim Si-min at Jinju. They then turned back towards Hanyang.
King Seonjo and the royal princes fled to the northern provinces and appealed to the Ming Emperor for aid against the invaders. The Japanese generals squabbled among themselves, while Joseon's Admiral Yi Sun-sin conducted a brilliant series of operations in the South Sea, destroying many Japanese ships. The ironclad Geobukseon (turtle ships), which Admiral Yi improved with plated armor resembling a turtle shell, protected the sailors and marines, and were more than a match for anything else afloat.
With the appearance of allied Ming contingents, the Japanese were forced to fight a combined Ming-Joseon army. Cut off from supplies and reinforcements owing to Admiral Yi's control of the sea, the Japanese were severely weakened. A Joseon volunteer army organized in the southern provinces harassed them with guerrilla tactics, while disease and malnutrition took its toll. Peace negotiations were held between the Ming general and the Japanese, who had by then lost the will to fight and started to retreat, stalked by volunteer peasant forces and contingents of Buddhist monks.
Peace negotiations dragged on for five years but proved fruitless, and Hideyoshi sent his army to Joseon again in 1597. The invasion this time encompassed only Gyeongsang-do province and part of the Jeolla-do province, as the invaders were intercepted by the volunteer army.
The Japanese retreated and Hideyoshi's death forced the withdrawal of his forces. Admiral Yi, in his attempt to smash the Japanese retreat, was struck by a stray bullet and killed during a climactic naval battle. The war ended at long last, with grave impact upon Joseon, Ming China and Japan.
Impact of the War
The results of the Hideyoshi invasion brought about the destruction of government records, cultural objects, archives, historical documents and many works of art, the devastation of land, decrease in population, and the loss of artisans and technicians. Arable land amounted to only one-third of the prewar acreage, and the resulting decrease of revenue necessitated additional taxation on less devastated provinces such as Gyeonggi-do or Chungcheong-do. The government resorted to selling official titles and yangban status, and on occasion, held an examination for government service open to the bondsman class. The loss of artisans brought a decline in handiwork quality, as well as in manufactured goods such as pottery and book printing. The Neo-Confucian norms and values were shaken, and the class distinctions which the yangban tried to uphold began to slowly crumble.
The Japanese, on the other hand, achieved a peaceful, centralized feudal society under Hideyoshi's successor, Tokugawa Ieyasu . Importation of the political philosophy of Neo-Confucianism and the study of medicinal materials and therapy developed in Joseon also helped Japanese scholars make significant contributions to their society. The introduction of typography with movable metal type expedited book printing, and Joseon artisans captured by the Japanese army developed ceramic and textile products. After the Tokugawa takeover, Japan wanted peaceful diplomatic relations with Joseon in order to benefit further from the Joseon version of Chinese culture.
For Ming China, however, the results were catastrophic. The economic setback suffered in the campaign later led to the collapse of the dynasty in 1644.
------------------------------------------------------------
OK back to the topic,Although I bet my money into Japanese winning carefully,I do not think it all depends on the military spending only.
Japan has better equipped with more advanced arms in the navy and AF such as AEGIS or AWACS units ,I find no significance unit difference in the Army.
But I think they have a fundamental to spend high budget into military spending since their force is consist of only the volunteers and the payment in japan is one of the higest.
But I do not think that will decide the winner absoutely.
I think if the ground forces are on the chances to face against each other between two countries' troops ,nobody can say the result easily.
The Korean soldiers were not good equipped during the vietnamese war but they made a good record thanks to their good trainng.
Although I agree that advanced unit of Navy and AF does matter to decide the winner ,still the ground units spirit does matter highly.
Just my 2 cents.
sabro
後輩
- 23 Apr 2004
- 1,006
- 35
I think the economic interests between Japan and Korea would make any invasion by anyone a disaster for both.
The US successfully invaded Mexico in the 1840's and sent Pershing in after Pancho Villa back in the 1910's
Now if Mexico invaded the United States...wait a minute, isn't this already happening?
The US successfully invaded Mexico in the 1840's and sent Pershing in after Pancho Villa back in the 1910's
Now if Mexico invaded the United States...wait a minute, isn't this already happening?
resolute123
後輩
- 23 Oct 2004
- 1
- 0
Can Japan (presently) win a war with Korea?
I'm a soldier in the 25th ID (Light) in the U.S. Army and our battalion did an exercise with the Japanese SDF last winter. They are not ready for war. They have the edge on techology, but they haven't had real combat experience since WWII.
I have served with the 2nd ID in Korea, and the ROK (Republic of Korea) Army and these guys I'd go to war with.
Japan has not seen major combat since the end of WWII in 1945. The ROK military has been preparing for combat since the end of the Korea War. They were the second largest contributor in the Vietnam War, sending over 40,000 men. ROK military forces continue to train hard to deter any North Korean aggression, 2 millions strong!
According to globalsecurity.org, Japanese Ground Defense Force has roughly 11 division and 12 brigades and various mixed units. The ROK Army has about 42 Divisions. The ROK Marine Corps. had 2 Divisions and 1 Brigade. Japan has no military Special Operations unit. The ROK's have Special Operations capability, such as their Ranger-Commandos and Special Forces.
In terms of air-power, Korean has a larger force than Japan. I believe the ROK Airforce has about 12 tactical wings and Japan has about 8.
The ROK Army is very hardcore. With the common enlisted, their superiors (either NCO or officers) are allow to physical abuse their subordinates. Such actions are appauling to their American counterparts.
In Vietnam, the Viet Cong would engage the Americans whenever they could, but with Koreans they were ordered not to engage unless victory was ensured. This is due the ferocity the Koreans displayed in battle. In one battle, a squad (about 12 men) of ROK Marines defeated a NVA (North Viet. Army) battalion of 400 men.
South Korean military has been active in peacekeeping roles. They've sent troops to Somolia, Africa, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It is only recently Japan's military is playing more an active role in current affairs.
Japan as a long military history, but as mention before, she has not seen action since WWII.
SPC Song
2-27 IN (Wolfhounds)
I'm a soldier in the 25th ID (Light) in the U.S. Army and our battalion did an exercise with the Japanese SDF last winter. They are not ready for war. They have the edge on techology, but they haven't had real combat experience since WWII.
I have served with the 2nd ID in Korea, and the ROK (Republic of Korea) Army and these guys I'd go to war with.
Japan has not seen major combat since the end of WWII in 1945. The ROK military has been preparing for combat since the end of the Korea War. They were the second largest contributor in the Vietnam War, sending over 40,000 men. ROK military forces continue to train hard to deter any North Korean aggression, 2 millions strong!
According to globalsecurity.org, Japanese Ground Defense Force has roughly 11 division and 12 brigades and various mixed units. The ROK Army has about 42 Divisions. The ROK Marine Corps. had 2 Divisions and 1 Brigade. Japan has no military Special Operations unit. The ROK's have Special Operations capability, such as their Ranger-Commandos and Special Forces.
In terms of air-power, Korean has a larger force than Japan. I believe the ROK Airforce has about 12 tactical wings and Japan has about 8.
The ROK Army is very hardcore. With the common enlisted, their superiors (either NCO or officers) are allow to physical abuse their subordinates. Such actions are appauling to their American counterparts.
In Vietnam, the Viet Cong would engage the Americans whenever they could, but with Koreans they were ordered not to engage unless victory was ensured. This is due the ferocity the Koreans displayed in battle. In one battle, a squad (about 12 men) of ROK Marines defeated a NVA (North Viet. Army) battalion of 400 men.
South Korean military has been active in peacekeeping roles. They've sent troops to Somolia, Africa, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It is only recently Japan's military is playing more an active role in current affairs.
Japan as a long military history, but as mention before, she has not seen action since WWII.
SPC Song
2-27 IN (Wolfhounds)
To all the people who think that the ROK army is stronger than the Japanese SDF forces:
Do you think that Japan would be stronger if all of the restrictions on the japanese military stated in their constitution (which was written up with the USA at the end of WWII) were removed? Or better yet... if there weren't restrictions on their military in the first place?
Do you think that Japan would be stronger if all of the restrictions on the japanese military stated in their constitution (which was written up with the USA at the end of WWII) were removed? Or better yet... if there weren't restrictions on their military in the first place?
stupidumboy
先輩
- 26 Jun 2004
- 126
- 6
I personally do not think even in the current status,ROK military is stronger than Japanese SDF overall.
But I can only bet my money on the winning of ROK side in terms of the direct fight of Army troops on the ground as a few of the people mentioned above that ROK troops are hardly trained and have some good real war involved experinces.
Korean air-defense installations and top secret military informationS heavily depends on the USFK.
Plus,the supreme command right for the real war of ROK troops is on the American hands right now.
In other words,ROK is not an independent military operating country right now.
The head of ordering ROK troops is Americans.
But I can only bet my money on the winning of ROK side in terms of the direct fight of Army troops on the ground as a few of the people mentioned above that ROK troops are hardly trained and have some good real war involved experinces.
Korean air-defense installations and top secret military informationS heavily depends on the USFK.
Plus,the supreme command right for the real war of ROK troops is on the American hands right now.
In other words,ROK is not an independent military operating country right now.
The head of ordering ROK troops is Americans.
stupidumboy
先輩
- 26 Jun 2004
- 126
- 6
You guys should know that Korean military has not been care very much to the naval defence and air defence potentials because Korea only has been focusing on the North Korean threats for a long time.
There is no comparision of naval military strength between two countries right now.
(Yes JPN naval SDF definitely dominates ROK)
The biggest warship that Japanese Naval SDF operating right now is 9,800 tons class.
But the biggest Korean one is only 5,500 tons class right now.
Korea started lately invest in the naval forces quality (KDX project)
KDX project is betting on preparing for the unexpected Japanese threat by upgrading Korean warship's scale and quality (its impossible that ROK produce more number of warships than Japan plus just looking at the size of Japanese territorial water -its very resonable that they had better and more naval strengths now,therefore I think they made a wise decision to upgrade the unit size and quality)
One of the main project is to produce 12,000 tons of class Aegis by 2008.(now building at the main shipyards of southern part of Korea)
But I read a military expert column that said the 9th Korean submarine group is very well trained and excellent compared to any national counter parts and they are equipped by the 209,214 class.
There is no comparision of naval military strength between two countries right now.
(Yes JPN naval SDF definitely dominates ROK)
The biggest warship that Japanese Naval SDF operating right now is 9,800 tons class.
But the biggest Korean one is only 5,500 tons class right now.
Korea started lately invest in the naval forces quality (KDX project)
KDX project is betting on preparing for the unexpected Japanese threat by upgrading Korean warship's scale and quality (its impossible that ROK produce more number of warships than Japan plus just looking at the size of Japanese territorial water -its very resonable that they had better and more naval strengths now,therefore I think they made a wise decision to upgrade the unit size and quality)
One of the main project is to produce 12,000 tons of class Aegis by 2008.(now building at the main shipyards of southern part of Korea)
But I read a military expert column that said the 9th Korean submarine group is very well trained and excellent compared to any national counter parts and they are equipped by the 209,214 class.
As a korean-american military cadet I had a lot of contact with US officers and spoke at length with some US military officers who have been stationed in korea, about the South Korean army. And I also grew up as a military enthusiast, reading about the international militaries, and learning about the ROK army from my dad and uncles. So I think I can offer a lot of my insight on the South Korean army.
Having a lot of contact with US soldiers, I noticed that the ROK army is well-known and infamous in the US military community. US soldiers have so much admiration for them, that they pronounced the ROK army into the "Rock Army".
The average RoK soldier is tough, disciplined, and merciless. Which is unusual for a conscript military, normally conscripts tend to be ill-motivated and undisciplined, but not the ROK army thanks to their brutal training regimes that turn out the most pathetic geeks into efficient killing machines.
Anyways, I agree with some people here. I think the victor of the war would be the one who is on defense. If Korea invaded Japan, Japan would win. If Japan invaded Korea, Korea would win.
No, Koreans as private citizens cannot own guns. However, most adult men have been highly-trained in the use of firearms in their term of military service. A good example that shows how good the RoK soldiers are in the use of guns is their combat action in Vietnam. During the Vietnam War, the Korean combat units had much higher kill ratios then their american equivalents. They were such expert marksmen that the VC and NVA troops would detour around Korean soldiers for miles just to avoid them.
Even though most young korean men might say they had finished their military duty. In reality they had not, they had only completed their active duty service and are placed in the reserves where they can lead normal civilian lives for the most part, while they train once a month in case they are needed to be called up for war. About 4.5 million "civilians" are reservists.
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Korea/Default2.html
http://www.vietquoc.com/jan15-00.htm
http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/korea/rokinvietnam.html
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Vietnam/allied/ch06.htm#b4
Marine Corps - South Korea
As you can see even our regular 9th infantry soldiers had outstanding kill ratios. In one operation they had a kill ratio of 204:0, no korean soldier was killed that battle. And our troops today are much better-trained then then the ROK soldiers of the Vietnam War era.
Yeah, but thanks to the ROK reserve system. 4.5 million fully-equipped, fully-trained, and fully-prepared soldiers can be called up in only three days. Can Japan call up that many soldiers in a optimal state in three days?
Not just Navy Seals. South Korea military personnel are trained way above NATO standards, as stupidumboy has said even our navy crews are highly-regarded.
As for military industries. Japan's military industry his highly-developed while Korea's is still developing but catching up quick. We started to build our own weapons, I believe back in the 80's.
The highest number of troops we had at one time in vietnam was 40,000. But the number of troops we had coming in and out during the 8 years is 300,000.
North Korea has 5.9 million troops if you count the reserves too.
We sure did. In E.Timor the ROK soldiers were named "the king of all multinational forces" by the E.Timor citizens for their commitment in humanitarian mission and for keeping the citizens safe from the rebels. In fact I heard that a few days after the ROK soldiers moved into their AOR, the rebels simply "disappeared". I wonder why?
Yeah, but South Korea is not lagging that far behind in the technology department. Our industry have created state-of-the-art weapons and equipment. The K9 self-propelled howitzer (SPH), Singung missles, and the Zaytun body armor were all developed indigenously in South Korea. The K9 SPH is the one of two types of SPH that can fire while on the move. They were originally developed to combat the numerous fixed artillery pieces North Korea had, what makes them so unique is that they can fire and then mobilize in under ten minutes, no other SPH can do that besides the PZH2000. It fires and then it scoops. The Singung AA missles as proven to be superior to its counterparts in all categories including accuracy, and can discern a decoy or chaff from a real enemy plane. The body armor equipped by the Zaytun division in Iraq can prevent machine gun fire from getting through and the helmet can stop assualt rifle fire.
Thats why they are called the "Rock Army". Tough as nails.
Plus the ROK marine corp is the second largest marine corp in the world after the United States. Also, Navy Seals, special units from the Headquarters division, and the Capital Division from the Vietnam war which had expanded into the Capital Corp included into their ranks are the finest and deadliest marines from the Marine Corp.
I don't know much about the Korean airforce. Can you tell me more about them?
The KDX-3 is a beast. I don't know why they classified it as a destroyer.
Well, thats all I have put. I'm sure resolute123 has some interesting
stories to tell ya since he has personally trained with the ROK soldiers themselves. I only watched the ROK soldiers train, and all I can say about them is "wow".
Having a lot of contact with US soldiers, I noticed that the ROK army is well-known and infamous in the US military community. US soldiers have so much admiration for them, that they pronounced the ROK army into the "Rock Army".
The average RoK soldier is tough, disciplined, and merciless. Which is unusual for a conscript military, normally conscripts tend to be ill-motivated and undisciplined, but not the ROK army thanks to their brutal training regimes that turn out the most pathetic geeks into efficient killing machines.
Anyways, I agree with some people here. I think the victor of the war would be the one who is on defense. If Korea invaded Japan, Japan would win. If Japan invaded Korea, Korea would win.
No, Koreans as private citizens cannot own guns. However, most adult men have been highly-trained in the use of firearms in their term of military service. A good example that shows how good the RoK soldiers are in the use of guns is their combat action in Vietnam. During the Vietnam War, the Korean combat units had much higher kill ratios then their american equivalents. They were such expert marksmen that the VC and NVA troops would detour around Korean soldiers for miles just to avoid them.
Even though most young korean men might say they had finished their military duty. In reality they had not, they had only completed their active duty service and are placed in the reserves where they can lead normal civilian lives for the most part, while they train once a month in case they are needed to be called up for war. About 4.5 million "civilians" are reservists.
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Korea/Default2.html
http://www.vietquoc.com/jan15-00.htm
http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/korea/rokinvietnam.html
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Vietnam/allied/ch06.htm#b4
Marine Corps - South Korea
As you can see even our regular 9th infantry soldiers had outstanding kill ratios. In one operation they had a kill ratio of 204:0, no korean soldier was killed that battle. And our troops today are much better-trained then then the ROK soldiers of the Vietnam War era.
Yeah, but thanks to the ROK reserve system. 4.5 million fully-equipped, fully-trained, and fully-prepared soldiers can be called up in only three days. Can Japan call up that many soldiers in a optimal state in three days?
Not just Navy Seals. South Korea military personnel are trained way above NATO standards, as stupidumboy has said even our navy crews are highly-regarded.
As for military industries. Japan's military industry his highly-developed while Korea's is still developing but catching up quick. We started to build our own weapons, I believe back in the 80's.
The highest number of troops we had at one time in vietnam was 40,000. But the number of troops we had coming in and out during the 8 years is 300,000.
North Korea has 5.9 million troops if you count the reserves too.
We sure did. In E.Timor the ROK soldiers were named "the king of all multinational forces" by the E.Timor citizens for their commitment in humanitarian mission and for keeping the citizens safe from the rebels. In fact I heard that a few days after the ROK soldiers moved into their AOR, the rebels simply "disappeared". I wonder why?
Yeah, but South Korea is not lagging that far behind in the technology department. Our industry have created state-of-the-art weapons and equipment. The K9 self-propelled howitzer (SPH), Singung missles, and the Zaytun body armor were all developed indigenously in South Korea. The K9 SPH is the one of two types of SPH that can fire while on the move. They were originally developed to combat the numerous fixed artillery pieces North Korea had, what makes them so unique is that they can fire and then mobilize in under ten minutes, no other SPH can do that besides the PZH2000. It fires and then it scoops. The Singung AA missles as proven to be superior to its counterparts in all categories including accuracy, and can discern a decoy or chaff from a real enemy plane. The body armor equipped by the Zaytun division in Iraq can prevent machine gun fire from getting through and the helmet can stop assualt rifle fire.
Thats why they are called the "Rock Army". Tough as nails.
Plus the ROK marine corp is the second largest marine corp in the world after the United States. Also, Navy Seals, special units from the Headquarters division, and the Capital Division from the Vietnam war which had expanded into the Capital Corp included into their ranks are the finest and deadliest marines from the Marine Corp.
I don't know much about the Korean airforce. Can you tell me more about them?
The KDX-3 is a beast. I don't know why they classified it as a destroyer.
Well, thats all I have put. I'm sure resolute123 has some interesting
stories to tell ya since he has personally trained with the ROK soldiers themselves. I only watched the ROK soldiers train, and all I can say about them is "wow".
stupidumboy
先輩
- 26 Jun 2004
- 126
- 6
@overlord
Its very long to explain here and I do not have to say much about what I had seen and experinced during my military job ,but I was in the ROK airforce,(enlisted member)
I had chances to read the documents about the ROK airforce operation at war times.
You just simply need to know that the two most important main headquarters of ROK airforce(anti-aircraft defense and air tactics)both of them locate in the Osan USFK
airbase. Osan USFK airbase is American territory and the key generals and tactic operators from both of ROKAF and USFKAF stationed there for wars.
Its very long to explain here and I do not have to say much about what I had seen and experinced during my military job ,but I was in the ROK airforce,(enlisted member)
I had chances to read the documents about the ROK airforce operation at war times.
You just simply need to know that the two most important main headquarters of ROK airforce(anti-aircraft defense and air tactics)both of them locate in the Osan USFK
airbase. Osan USFK airbase is American territory and the key generals and tactic operators from both of ROKAF and USFKAF stationed there for wars.
