One of my friends told me about this...

[orochi]

Dude do you think I just fell out of a tree? Nice try I'll give you a few points for style.

They were trolling remarks. Do you have anything of substance to add on the unnamed people who just want to find somebody guilty of something? Back the comments up or don't bring them up at all.

Next, room for improvement? By whose standards? By whose laws?

Japanese law. Did you even read the law that I posted?

I'll take these minor inconveniences vs a further rise in crime anyday.

As Chidoriashi mentioned, do you have any statistical information to back up the connection between random police questioning and a decrease in crime / increase in safety?

Yeah I do think they are overly sensitive, it shows in their misunderstanding of the culture and the methods of the police here.

Who is "they"? What sort of misunderstanding?

I have found through experience that people create their own situations and the key is dont put yourself into situations where you could get into trouble.

We aren't talking about people who "put themselves in situations". Why do you keep pulling out straw men?

Hell if someone is so butt ugly hurt about the issue they have another option too......leave.

Life isn't that easy. People have jobs they can't leave. Mortgages they have to pay off. Families to support. Children to feed. Maybe you can just stand up and walk away, but some people can't.

 

[Emoni]

Very, VERY well said Orochi. I'm finding you responses and information in you include one of the main reasons I keep checking this thread.

 

[caster51]

Life isn't that easy. People have jobs they can't leave. Mortgages they have to pay off. Families to support. Children to feed. Maybe you can just stand up and walk away, but some people can't

at least, ppl should know about that before...
it sonuds a poor excuse..
if you choose it, dont cry..
if you cry, leave... I think it is very simple

 

[KirinMan]

They were trolling remarks. Do you have anything of substance to add on the unnamed people who just want to find somebody guilty of something? Back the comments up or don't bring them up at all.

I was speaking in generalities, I guess I underestimated you being able to follow that. Sorry my bad!

As Chidoriashi mentioned, do you have any statistical information to back up the connection between random police questioning and a decrease in crime / increase in safety?

Sorry I am not a "google-commando". I will reply to Chidoriashi later, then you can get your answer as well.

Who is "they"? What sort of misunderstanding?

People who ***** about the police for anything they do that makes them stick out, or feel like they are being selected because they are a foreigner.

We aren't talking about people who "put themselves in situations". Why do you keep pulling out straw men?

Really? Go back and read the parts about Dave. The discussion has taken many turns.

Life isn't that easy. People have jobs they can't leave. Mortgages they have to pay off. Families to support. Children to feed. Maybe you can just stand up and walk away, but some people can't.

Never said I could or couldnt, but thanks for making a point here, if they are in a situation where they can not leave then they had better learn to work within the system to figure out ways to improve their situation.

It all starts with education and information. Educating people usually is the first step to removing ignorant behavior and responses.

And police are people too.

 

[Otenba]

In defence of the Japanese police: in each and every country, a fair deal of cops is nothing but a bunch of corrupted swines who are mostly after money or venting their issues on the weak more than justice and people's safety. EVERY country.

Take this ever so peaceful Belgium for example. Those tyrants arrested me for having pink hair. There was nothing else about my look or behavior, that made me different from everyone else at that party, and unlike me, many others did drugs which you could smell miles against the wind. For legally colored hair, they violently dragged me off the party ground (although I didn't resist at all), put me in handcuffs and tore my clothes off me in a cell, even insulted and threatened me. They also broke and entered without a warrant, to collect a tax that does not apply to me. I have also seen them threaten to beat up my 19-year-old friend for the cheeky remark "You should try (tightrope walking) too, it's fun" when they were harrassing tightrope walkers because their rope apparantly poses a greater threat than the loose Pitbull 10 yards further, which they didn't pay attention to at all while we were very much concerned. And did I mention seeing them hop in the brothels in Northern Brussels every now and then, alone and with a very happy face? For some reason those brothels have not been shut down despite the fact that illegal 16-year-old children were forced to work there... Hm. Strange.

Also, I am tattooed in a visible place and I tend to walk around like gangsta. Despite that, the Japanese police have never so much as looked at me. I can walk into a koban and ask for directions without worries of staying there longer than expected. At Narita airport, security went through my luggage in search for drugs, probably because of my tattoo and the hemp leaf necklace, but that's all.

So while I'm more than willing to believe any bad story about any police unit anywhere in the world, I also want to believe that that is not standard procedure as enforced by law.

 

[orochi]

at least, ppl should know about that before...
it sonuds a poor excuse..
if you choose it, dont cry..
if you cry, leave... I think it is very simple

You're adding absolutely nothing to this conversation.

 

[pipokun]

I don't know how rational it is that someone, Japanese or not, has been watching the cop for quite some time at the airport on the special occasion.
orochi finds the cop unreasonable, though.

orochi, please answer my simple question who you think is more reasonable in the Debito situation, the cop or Debito.

And don't worry, there is always the way to file a lawsuit against the cop's ill treatment. Maybe in the court, we will come to know how long was what he meant "watching the cop for quite some time".

Go for Debito!

 

[orochi]

orochi, please answer my simple question who you think is more reasonable in the Debito situation, the cop or Debito.

Phrase your question in a way that I can answer.
Reasonable about what?

 

[pipokun]

Phrase your question in a way that I can answer.
Reasonable about what?

The cop action, to stop & question someone, was reasonable based on the law as you described above, or not.

If he and you still think it quite offensive even after the cop's kind apology, just support Debito to file a lawsuit.

 

[orochi]

Debito filing a lawsuit has nothing at all to do with my judgment. That point is irrelevant to this discussion. I hope everybody realizes this.

As to whether or not the stop was warranted, I would say no. And that's based on the content of the audio recording. From what the cop said, Debito was stopped "because he looked foreign".

 

[pipokun]

ARUDOU: Uh, sorry, but I have been watching you for quite some time, and you haven't confirmed anyone's identity with anyone at all thus far.

有道：えーと、すみませんが、ずっと見ていたんですけれども、一 人も、今までは確認しなかったですね。

So you think his situation, watching the cop for quite some time (taking photos, and etc.), is also reasonable?

it may be reasonable that there is no law, "don't stare at cops", though...
(actually, the staring is a sort of minor offense under some situations, but I don't think we need to discuss it here)

 

[orochi]

That's what Debito said. We don't know how long it was, either. And the cop never said once that Debito was engaging in suspicious activity.
Dare I say strawman?

 

[KirinMan]

As to whether or not the stop was warranted, I would say no. And that's based on the content of the audio recording. From what the cop said, Debito was stopped "because he looked foreign".

So? I am as foreign looking as just about anyone can get here. I dont have a problem with it either.

I am not overly sensitive to the police here stopping foreigners based upon their looks. I personally have been the victim of a crime committed by a "foreign" person and I am gratefull to the police here for first off taking it seriously, and secondly not just looking at it as a crime of foreigner against foreigner, but taking the time and effort to solving the issue based upon the fact that it was a crime.

 

[orochi]

Thank you for your personal anecdote. Let us know when it relates to the discussion.

 

[KirinMan]

KirinMan> This is a little bit off the topic. But I don't believe that Japan being a safe-low crime country has even half to do with the police doing their job. Crime any country is much more complicated than a matter of the police just doing their job. Do they contribute? Of course... but giving them all the credit for Japan's safety I think is a vast overstatement.

Sure there are cultural aspects to be considered as well.

I agree that crime and the prevention of it depends not only upon the the police but upon an individuals perception of either getting caught for committing a crime or getting away with it.

I give more credit to the low crime rate here to the citizens and their sense of community than just to the police, although they also play a part in the over all equation in my opinion.

 

[orochi]

I give more credit to the low crime rate here to the citizens and their sense of community than just to the police, although they also play a part in the over all equation in my opinion.

Did you just finish reading Chrysanthemum and the Sword?

 

[KirinMan]

Thank you for your personal anecdote. Let us know when it relates to the discussion.

It also in part stems from the fact that my father in law is a retired detective of the Japanese police, and that a number of very close friends and aquaintances are active police, dectectives, and guards in a Japanese prison.

 

[orochi]

That still adds nothing.
If you can convince them to post, it would be impressive, though.

 

[pipokun]

That's what Debito said. We don't know how long it was, either. And the cop never said once that Debito was engaging in suspicious activity.
Dare I say strawman?

He clearly said that he supported the anti-terror measures by himself. Only Debito knows the reason why he would not have said to the cop that he was a naturalized citizen who supports the measures first, not playing the why, why, why-game.
He is a fluent speaker of Japanese, but I cannot say his level is so perfect that ordinary cops or people will tell if he is a tourist, permanent resident or Japanese.
If you are a tourist/permanet resident, your ID should be shown to the police as required.
If you are a Japanese, esp., those who are against any forms of terrors, you don't lose much even you show your ID in the special occasion.

I am not a frequent bicycle rider, but I don't bother to show off even my driver's license when I go through the once or twice/a year bike check after I hear the cops saying that the safety around the city worsens (of course, this is more practical reason for me).

 

[KirinMan]

Did you just finish reading Chrysanthemum and the Sword?

No I can not say I have. However thanks for the suggestion, I will be ordering it from Amazon shortly.....might learn something too!

 

[orochi]

He is a fluent speaker of Japanese, but I cannot say his level is so perfect that ordinary cops or people will tell if he is a tourist, permanent resident or Japanese.

There is no legal basis for defining nationality based on language ability.
What about 帰国子女, people who are 100% Japanese but raised overseas and may lack in language ability? Would you put them up against the same discrimination? By the way, this point is a strawman as well, and completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

If you are a tourist/permanet resident, your ID should be shown to the police as required.

But how does the officer determine whether or not the person in question is a tourist or permanent resident? Based on skin color? That is frightening--and illegal.

If you are a Japanese, esp., those who are against any forms of terrors, you don't lose much even you show your ID in the special occasion.

You lose your privacy. You lose your rights as promised by the law.
I see you're apathetic and simply "don't care". And that's fine. You're afforded that right by the same laws you disagree with above. But calm down when other people stand up for their rights.

 

[orochi]

No I can not say I have. However thanks for the suggestion, I will be ordering it from Amazon shortly.....might learn something too!

No, you might want to stay away.

 

[pipokun]

There is no legal basis for defining nationality based on language ability.
What about 帰国子女, people who are 100% Japanese but raised overseas and may lack in language ability? Would you put them up against the same discrimination? By the way, this point is a strawman as well, and completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
But how does the officer determine whether or not the person in question is a tourist or permanent resident? Based on skin color? That is frightening--and illegal.
You lose your privacy. You lose your rights as promised by the law.
I see you're apathetic and simply "don't care". And that's fine. You're afforded that right by the same laws you disagree with above. But calm down when other people stand up for their rights.

It is just a requirement to carry your IDs if you are not Japanese.
And this is nothing special in other countries.

About the 帰国子女, she was not the one, but I posted somewhere here that a poor girl had to staye in police for a night without telling a word. I don't know her political orientation, but she should have said something.

You mean, the privacy means the ones registered by the governments such as driver's license? It is not apathy of mine, but a small contribution to my community like Debito has.

 

[orochi]

It is just a requirement to carry your IDs if you are not Japanese.

I never said it wasn't.

And this is nothing special in other countries.

Others countries don't matter. We are talking about Japan. Please please please stop bringing up straw men.

she was not the one, but I posted somewhere here that a poor girl had to staye in police for a night without telling a word. I don't know her political orientation, but she should have said something.

What does someone's financial or political status have to do with her being detained?
I am honestly confused. I am guessing this is another straw man, though, so don't feel like you have to pursue the argument.

 

[KirinMan]

No, you might want to stay away.

And why is that?...................