One of my friends told me about this...

[Emoni]

I wonder if any other police department in the world tries to pressure a suspect to confess? And don't you find it very convient that it was only "luck" that prevailed in your friends situation?

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that other police departments in the world don't pressure suspects. Moreover, I'm limiting the detail of the story to allow another member to post details if they choose to. There was a bit of luck, both bad and good in the story that I heard.

By no means are the police "all bad" and I'd never say that. However, I'm not at all naive and foolish enough to think of them as all good. I know when I walk past one there is always a good chance of him doing the whole racial profile crap and checking to see if I have my gaijin card. I don't ride a bike, but I'm sure I would have to worry about being stopped for that too as others I have known, for no justifiable reason.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that other police departments in the world don't pressure suspects. Moreover, I'm limiting the detail of the story to allow another member to post details if they choose to. There was a bit of luck, both bad and good in the story that I heard.
By no means are the police "all bad" and I'd never say that. However, I'm not at all naive and foolish enough to think of them as all good. I know when I walk past one there is always a good chance of him doing the whole racial profile crap and checking to see if I have my gaijin card. I don't ride a bike, but I'm sure I would have to worry about being stopped for that too as others I have known, for no justifiable reason.

I did no such thing as put words in your mouth. Every thing you wrote had connotations that the Japanese police are the only ones to force a confession on someone who was supposedly inoccent. If you didn't think that then it would not have come up in topic of coversation which is related to Japanese police being assumed as above the law.

I just find it so covenient that people choose their words so it makes it seem like there is foul play. It was just "luck" that allowed your friend to be released and not the fact that the police did their job???

 

[Mike Cash]

I know when I walk past one there is always a good chance of him doing the whole racial profile crap and checking to see if I have my gaijin card.

In a quarter century I have shown my gaijin card to precisely ONE cop. And that was a guy inside a koban who gave every indication of having asked out of 3 a.m. stark boredom rather than anything else. That was probably about 15 or so years ago, long before the terrorist stuff or the general influx of foreigners.

I don't ride a bike, but I'm sure I would have to worry about being stopped for that too as others I have known, for no justifiable reason.

I know you didn't exactly say it, but I am sick and tired of the foreigners who have it in their heads that stopping people on bicycles for ﾂ職ﾅｽﾂｿ is some special thing the Japanese police have cooked up just to mess with foreigners. As far as foreigners are concerned, everything that happens to them happens only to them and for no other reason than that they are foreigners.

 

[FrustratedDave]

In a quarter century I have shown my gaijin card to precisely ONE cop. And that was a guy inside a koban who gave every indication of having asked out of 3 a.m. stark boredom rather than anything else. That was probably about 15 or so years ago, long before the terrorist stuff or the general influx of foreigners.
I know you didn't exactly say it, but I am sick and tired of the foreigners who have it in their heads that stopping people on bicycles for 職質 is some special thing the Japanese police have cooked up just to mess with foreigners. As far as foreigners are concerned, everything that happens to them happens only to them and for no other reason than that they are foreigners.

Exactly and for the record I have shown my card to no police officer for the time that I have been here. And I got booked for speeding in a car I was driving by myself just recently and all they asked for was my drivers licence and they had every right to ask for my alien card. (It was on a highway where the speed limit had been reduced from 100km to 80km, my fault for not paying attention)

 

[Taiko666]

Well... even though I more apt to whinge about Japan than Mike Cash or Frustrated Dave, I have to admit that I've only had to show my card to the police once... while I was waiting for a level-crossing gate to open while obviously hungover. And I've been stopped for a traffic offence too... just had to show my license.

Of course I've had to show my gaijin card to join banks, video rental shops, libraries etc.

My take on the gaijin card is that it could be Good Thing which eases the lives of foreigners IF:

1) it wasn't necessary to carry it at all times (can't see a valid reason for to single out only foreigners for this requirement... all or nothing please (preferably nothing)

2) it didn't contain so much info (id theft must be a breeze if you're in possession of somebody's gaijin card.)

 

[theAlphaDuck]

I just find it so covenient that people choose their words so it makes it seem like there is foul play. It was just "luck" that allowed your friend to be released and not the fact that the police did their job???

hmmm yes.....very convenient that bit of "luck" there....
usually when people get "lucky" and let off by the police it's because they have told them something

as for Japanese police being Racist to outlanders....
OF COURSE THEY ARE!!

i've never even been to Japan and i can tell you that...
for there is NO POLICE FORCE in the world which is not Racist...
it's one of life's little facts... it takes a certain breed of person to become a cop/fed/pig/rozzer....and thus racists often find there way to the top of the Force/filth/babylon/50/Justice Squad

thems there just be the rules!

 

[KirinMan]

1) it wasn't necessary to carry it at all times (can't see a valid reason for to single out only foreigners for this requirement... all or nothing please (preferably nothing)

Well in comparison to the days when a finger print was included on the card itself it is fairly begnin in my opinion.

I carry mine along side my drivers license and I can honestly say that even after getting a speeding ticket back many eons ago I have never had to show it to a police officer that I can recall. Oh in just in case something does happen to me where I am incapacitated and can not talk or something I would be grateful that they have my personal information to notify my family to pick up the body for disposal if necessary.


All or nothing? Why should Japanese need to be subject to the same treatment as foreigners in Japan?

 

[theAlphaDuck]

All or nothing? Why should Japanese need to be subject to the same treatment as foreigners in Japan?

probably depends...
IF when they are abroad do THEY want to be treated as second class citizens?
or have special things THEY need to do?

in the UK everyone is equal in the eye's of the law...
discrimination based on age, sex (and sexuality), race or religion is ILLIGAL

what i am interested to know is:
what happens if you are asked to present your gajin card and you don't have it?

and what happens if you lose it?

 

[Mike Cash]

I can't abide trolls. Especially those who speak from ignorance, can't spell, and have no idea where their shift keys are. Into the Ignore List you go.

 

[theAlphaDuck]

well you better get used to it...cos we got Wi-Fi under the bridge now....

oh yes...and thermal imaging to catch goats....mwha ha ha ha

ignorant.....moi?...
I'd say ignorance is about closing your mind to points of view you don't understand or agree with.....

well better to be ignorant than Ignant

hmmm if only i could bring myself to care

 

[FrustratedDave]

probably depends...
IF when they are abroad do THEY want to be treated as second class citizens?
or have special things THEY need to do?
in the UK everyone is equal in the eye's of the law...
discrimination based on age, sex (and sexuality), race or religion is ILLIGAL

But yet people still steal cars in the UK...

what i am interested to know is:
what happens if you are asked to present your gajin card and you don't have it?
and what happens if you lose it?

Better use the search button for this one Duck. But if you can't , police have the "right" to take you for a ride to your friendly local police station. I have heard of people getting a warning in many cases though.

I'd say ignorance is about closing your mind to points of view you don't understand or agree with.....
well better to be ignorant than Ignant
hmmm if only i could bring myself to care

And ignant is the slang of ignorant so is what you are saying that it is better to be ignorant than ignorant? I don't quite follow b/c your previous statements have confused me. Here is a quote from you eariler,

.....as for Japanese police being Racist to outlanders....
OF COURSE THEY ARE!!
i've never even been to Japan and i can tell you that...
for there is NO POLICE FORCE in the world which is not Racist...
it's one of life's little facts...

So does this mean that the UK police, even though it is the law to not be racist, is in fact racist? I get the feeling you are contradicting your opinions.

 

[KirinMan]

probably depends...
IF when they are abroad do THEY want to be treated as second class citizens?
or have special things THEY need to do?
in the UK everyone is equal in the eye's of the law...
discrimination based on age, sex (and sexuality), race or religion is ILLIGAL
what i am interested to know is:
what happens if you are asked to present your gajin card and you don't have it?
and what happens if you lose it?

Before I comment any further on these questions you have here I have one for you.....

Is it common for you to answer questions posted to you with other questions?

 

[Charles Barkley]

IF when they are abroad do THEY want to be treated as second class citizens?

Um, interesting choice of words seeing as they would not in fact be citizens if they were overseas in another country. Physical presence in a country does not a citizen make.

If you lose your gaijin card you can get another one. Just have to go to the local government office. I have never been asked for mine by police (only been here two years) so I dont know what would happen if you were asked for one while you were in a state of having lost it. I imagine you say you've lost it, ask the officer to contact your employer, and that's that.

The high conviction rate, expectation of confession, and propaganda about foreign crime are slightly troubling, however the clean cut white guy card I carry helps balance some of that out.

 

[Emoni]

Ditto to what Charles stated.

As for the concerns you mentioned I share the same. I find it disappointing how there seems to be just bickering and silence on this thread, as the original poster was mostly asking a question and I don't see a reason for the attitude against this topic. There are some seriously legitimate questions regarding the police and law in Japan. Yes, there is hype and misinformation, but as Charles stated, some are quite accurate and went along with law classes I took in Japan as well.

 

[Chidoriashi]

Yeah, I agree, give the OP a chance, it is very hard to get a feel for attitude on the internet, and the info/questions seemed legit and not presented in a way of trying to vilify Japan, and push some sort of "gaijin's burden" agenda.
The man just wants to know what is true and what is BS, and what is half true and half BS. That's all.

 

[Kyle]

Ditto to what Charles stated.
As for the concerns you mentioned I share the same. I find it disappointing how there seems to be just bickering and silence on this thread, as the original poster was mostly asking a question and I don't see a reason for the attitude against this topic. There are some seriously legitimate questions regarding the police and law in Japan. Yes, there is hype and misinformation, but as Charles stated, some are quite accurate and went along with law classes I took in Japan as well.

When I posted this thread I had no intention of people getting in others throats and stuff like that. All I wanted to know was if they stated facts were real or made up, and which ones were real if not all. Then once we got into other states and their laws and it just got interesting and people got heated and I decided to stop looking at this thread because it just became a fight.

Thank you all for your views and keeping this thread alive, it was a very interesting read. Much appreciated.

 

[KirinMan]

Ditto to what Charles stated.
As for the concerns you mentioned I share the same. I find it disappointing how there seems to be just bickering and silence on this thread, as the original poster was mostly asking a question and I don't see a reason for the attitude against this topic. There are some seriously legitimate questions regarding the police and law in Japan. Yes, there is hype and misinformation, but as Charles stated, some are quite accurate and went along with law classes I took in Japan as well.

Ok what "serious legitimate questions" do you have regarding the police and law in Japan?

I would think that if a person was going to take a stance such as this they would instead of questioning the "bickering and silence" on this thread add their comments, knowledge, or opinions.

It's easy to point fingers in blaming others for their actions, and in all honesty the manner in which the OP was written to me at least was written in a manner to incite argumentative commentary by the people replying and that I must say is, again my opinion here, the reason for the silence.

Have you also taken the time to notice that the OP outside of one minor reply has been sitting back, probably eating popcorn, and enjoying the fun?

Edited to add......I see the OP has come back as I was replying to your comment here to make a "statement" . Guess I was wrong about the popcorn....

 

[Kyle]

Ok what "serious legitimate questions" do you have regarding the police and law in Japan?
I would think that if a person was going to take a stance such as this they would instead of questioning the "bickering and silence" on this thread add their comments, knowledge, or opinions.
It's easy to point fingers in blaming others for their actions, and in all honesty the manner in which the OP was written to me at least was written in a manner to incite argumentative commentary by the people replying and that I must say is, again my opinion here, the reason for the silence.
Have you also taken the time to notice that the OP outside of one minor reply has been sitting back, probably eating popcorn, and enjoying the fun?
Edited to add......I see the OP has come back as I was replying to your comment here to make a "statement" . Guess I was wrong about the popcorn....

If I have nothing to say, seeing as how I neither live in the UK or reside in Japan, I just didn't want to throw in a thought that I had no first-hand knowledge on.

Here is my thought on the whole showing your gaijin card issue. I think that if they ask you for it, there should be no complaining you should just show it to them. In my eyes, it's just a matter of respecting your host while you're there. If that means you have to show them a few things of identification, big deal 20 seconds out of your life. You have to think they want to keep THEIR country safe and if that means checking people, so be it. We here in the U.S. do the same thing. Everyone profiles everyone, whether you want to admit it or not. It's a common practice that a mast majority or all earth's beings do multiple times a day.

I did not intend to cause a fight. I did not intend to make people think I was questioning their countries ways. If I did that in any way, I apologize.

 

[Mars Man]

Not to worry, Kyle. At the moment I think we could say that you are not the cause of any fights. I do hope you now understand, however, that on the surface, much of what you had heard is incorrect. It might do good to do further research on that using more professional-like sources, however.

Like Mike Cash, in my 24 years here, I have never had any problems whatsoever. One big factor for that, I do reason, is a matter of attitude. My attitude has always been to first see those enforcing the law as fellow human beings...as someone is (until further evidence surfaces) there for my general well being. I'd say that'd help anywhere in the world, almost.

 

[Emoni]

I think Kyle cleared up things fairly well.

As for the serious issues, what I'm referring to is a mix of dangerous half-truths, mixed with accurate data. For example the conviction rate is true, but whether "people with beards are targeted" and the like is another issue that has no real grounding. That sort of situation leads to fear and uncertainty, and it is only natural that people want to clarify. I know I still have many questions about instances that have occurred that led to certain "stories." I've seen things myself and know of stories from friends in Japan as well. There is nothing wrong with ask questions like this, and the reaction that has happened her is a bit discouraging.

As for an extra comment on what MarsMan said, attitude has a GREAT deal on how a situation can play itself out and I believe that goes along with sincerity. Both of these on a personal level along with cautiousness will most likely reduce your chances to any real unjust situations (and certainly just ones) with the police by an insanely high percentage.

At the same time, I think what was listed are common misconceptions that need to be considered individually in some way, both in their source, and their legitimacy(or lack thereof).

 

[theAlphaDuck]

So does this mean that the UK police, even though it is the law to not be racist, is in fact racist? I get the feeling you are contradicting your opinions.

Of course they are!

iv'e traveled to many countries and some are worse than others....
i mean it's not THAT bad here....

just if you are a young black male...you are more likely to be stopped and searched than if your a young white male....ect.

regarding Japan tho

i think it is a bit dodge that magistrates can hand out death penalty...
and that the police are apparently corrupt

 

[FrustratedDave]

Of course they are!
iv'e traveled to many countries and some are worse than others....
i mean it's not THAT bad here....
just if you are a young black male...you are more likely to be stopped and searched than if your a young white male....ect.
regarding Japan tho
i think it is a bit dodge that magistrates can hand out death penalty...
and that the police are apparently corrupt

Well they are starting the jury system very shortly if that makes everyone feel better.

 

[Emoni]

Well they are starting the jury system very shortly if that makes everyone feel better.

While I don't trust judges either (which still remain in the new jury system btw), I have about the same faith in the Japanese general public as I do in the general public in the world. None.

However, I do think there are benefits to a jury system. It can be one of the few ways for the layman (aka general *****[seriously... this board censors m-o-r-o-n?!] on the street) to see the legal system. The more who see, the more who are exposed the more chance for things in general to improve or problems to be noticed. Of course... I am the same person that admits to trying to find a way to get myself pregnant to get out of my summons. This being hard since I'm a guy.

I will say one thing, while I have little faith in the United States legal system, from the classes I have taken and the information I have looked up in the past, the Japanese legal system scares the hell out of me.

 

[caster51]

I will say one thing, while I have little faith in the United States legal system, from the classes I have taken and the information I have looked up in the past, the Japanese legal system scares the hell out of me.

at first, i dont understand that
what information?

it is as same as OP like kid's " my friend told me..."
dont you think so?
who can follow that?

Japanese legal system scares the hell out of me because my friend told me? or " I experienced "
as for a generalization, That is scared.
it is a big culture shock for me .

 

[Emoni]

at first, i dont understand that
what information?
it is as same as OP like kid's " my friend told me..."
dont you think so?
who can follow that?
Japanese legal system scares the hell out of me because my friend told me? or " I experienced "
as for a generalization, That is scared.
it is a big culture shock for me .

#1 Insulting the original poster just because he was looking for facts based on information he heard from a friend is uncalled and more like the behavior that you accuse him of.

#2 Look up even the basic data concerning the Japanese legal system, the glaring 98+% conviction rate, the rate of confessions, the secretive death penalty system is ABSOLUTELY justification to raise an eyebrow and seek out more explanation if you are going to be inside the country.