I have recently started learning Japanese and am at the moment a bit confused about the way numbers are used or referred to in Japanese.
1. Sometimes, the number Kanji are used and sometimes Arabic numerals are used. Can they be used completely interchangeably in modern Japanese?
2. The Kanji 号, 番 and 第 all seem to mean "number". What is the difference?
3. About the "counter for X" Kanji. I understand that each (countable, quantifiable) Japanese noun word W has an assigned counter Kanji which needs to be used if you want to say "five W" or "the fifth W", for example. For example, 匹 is the assigned counter word for 猫. If you want to say "n cats", you use 猫<number n>匹 and if you want to say "the nth cat" you use 猫<number n>匹目. Exceptions seem to include words for time like 日 (day) and 時 (hour), but there at least for the "how many" part, 間 seems to play a similar role : 二日間 is "two days" (although 二日 also can mean "two days") while for the "the nth W" part, no counter word is used (二日 also can mean "the second day", 二月 the second month or February etc.).
Did I get anything wrong here? Are there other important exceptions? For example, 5号室 can mean "the fifth room" or "room number five", is this because there is no assigned counter Kanji for 室 or is this an exception?
Another example I came across is 三階 for "the third floor". Here, neither a counter Kanji is used nor the Kanji 号 as in 5号室.
Any help much appreciated.
3. About the "counter for X" Kanji. I understand that each (countable, quantifiable) Japanese noun word W has an assigned counter Kanji which needs to be used if you want to say "five W" or "the fifth W", for example. For example, 匹 is the assigned counter word for 猫. If you want to say "n cats", you use 猫<number n>匹 and if you want to say "the nth cat" you use 猫<number n>匹目. Exceptions seem to include words for time like 日 (day) and 時 (hour), but there at least for the "how many" part, 間 seems to play a similar role : 二日間 is "two days" (although 二日 also can mean "two days") while for the "the nth W" part, no counter word is used (二日 also can mean "the second day", 二月 the second month or February etc.).
Did I get anything wrong here? Are there other important exceptions? For example, 5号室 can mean "the fifth room" or "room number five", is this because there is no assigned counter Kanji for 室 or is this an exception?
Another example I came across is 三階 for "the third floor". Here, neither a counter Kanji is used nor the Kanji 号 as in 5号室.
Any help much appreciated.
Generally speaking, Arabic numerals are used when text is written horizontally, whereas Kanji are primarily used for vertical writing.
What counter word should be used to say "three problems" or "three lifes" and for other abstract nouns? Could it be "mittsu no mondai" and "mittsu no inochi"?
Thanks alot for the explanations, grapefruit.
If I undestand you correctly, the main difference in use between 第 and the other two Kanji for "number" ist that it is used only with certain other words and in set phrases while 号 and 番 can be used more freely?
Concerning 号 and 番, to sum up a bit of what you said, would the following be correct:
四車 four cars
四車目 the fourth car (?)
四号車 the fourth car (of a fixed series or of similar appearance), more like "car number 4"
四番目の車 the fourth car (not of a fixed series, reasons for being called the "fourth" have little to do with the car itself, like in "the fourth car I saw")
Also, can I use 番目 with arbitrary other words, such as 四番目の猫 as an alternative to 四匹目の猫 ?
My "improved" postulation is that 号 should be combined with another morpheme like 車、線、船, 館, and 棟(tou) or with a noun like 室, 車両, and 機 to produce nouns like 一号車、一号線、一号船、一号棟、一号室、一号車両、一号機, and so on.号 as in 一号車、一号機、and 一号室 seems to be applied with another counter like 車, 機,and 室. The whole phrase constructed with 号 such as 一号車 appears to behave like a word.
ナスlツ坂??ナステ the fourth car (of a fixed series or of similar appearance), more like "car number 4ツ"
ナスl窶敕披?禿壺?堙固ステ the fourth car (not of a fixed series, reasons for being called the "fourthツ" have little to do with the car itself, like in "the fourth car I sawツ")
Also, can I use 窶敕披?禿 with arbitrary other words, such as ナスl窶敕披?禿壺?堙娯?扠 as an alternative to ナスl窶「C窶禿壺?堙娯?扠 ?
A quick question on the date of the 11th/17th (or 21st/27th). About how often or around what % of the time does じゅうななにち get replaced with じゅうしちにち in normal conversation ?As you pointed out, it is not a good idea to generalize the behavior of 日, 月, and 時 (units of time) to that of other counters.
Besides, 日and月(I also believe 人) are distinct from other counters in pronunciation, since native Japanese pronunciation sometimes replaces sino-pronunciation ("onyomi").
日
ついたち、ふつか、みっか、よっか... (for date)
OK, well I tried searching online....maybe 10% or less...A quick question on the date of the 11th/17th (or 21st/27th). About how often or around what % of the time does じゅうななにち get replaced with じゅうしちにち in normal conversation ?
Yeah, I personally use じゅうしちにち, too. But, interestingly, 17番(目) is じゅうななばん(め).OK, well I tried searching online....maybe 10% or less...
そして、特に、電話などで、「じゅういちにち」と明確 に区別する時に使う程度ほとんど使わないでしょうね。Yeah, I personally use じゅうしちにち, too. But, interestingly, 17番(目) is じゅうななばん(め).