New place for Serious Discussions

[Tsuyoiko]

I don't like the new place for Serious Discussions. Although I understand that it is not Japan related, it isn't Europe related either. It is concerned with members' views on various issues, so I think the best place for it is Members' Lounge, alongside Chit Chat & Community - where it used to be. I find it a bit cumbersome how it's organised now, and I prefer how it was before.

Does anyone else care?

 

[Mike Cash]

I don't care. But what you say certainly does make sense and has merit.

 

[Kinsao]

I preferred it where it was before. There was one less step to get to it, plus you could see what the latest post was. Also it did seem to make sense, as a more 'weighty' kind of side to Chit Chat.

 

[Elizabeth]

I assume it is intended to get more people interested in the European side of things -- or at least get them in the door and aligned with the two European moderators. It does give a strange appearance to the Member Lounge but I've pretty much given up trying to understand the arrangement of various categories and fora of this place.

 

[Mars Man]

In a way, we could say that I am still rather new here--it hasn't been a year yet, and I don't have such a big number of posts, or whatever. . .

I voted for the 'before' arrangement, although, in one sense, I can see some advantage in the new. It's really a catch 22 situation.

In the old style, as Kinsao san mentioned, you could see a recent post, and go straight there. At the same time, that arrangement may have been like dry leaves for those who simply want to strike fires. The new style will cause one to have to want to go there, with the subject in mind, I feel (opposed to reason) at least.

Some people feel that the forum is primarily based on Japan and Japanese matters, and regardless of how true that may be, I have so very often seen comments by those who have just joined, that they find Jref friendlier and more receptive to them than some, or many, other forums. And just what that can be translated as, is that this total forum is a haven, in a way; and yet as such, having the variety beyond just the Japanese matter is good. If it were Japan alone, I, for one, would feel less drawn to post so much here.

The member's lounge, sounds like just the place for Serious discussions to occur. I'm glad that we do have it. I liked the old style better, yet can see some good in the new as well. I'm still open, basically.

 

[MeAndroo]

I think my main problem with it has been voiced already: I can't tell if there's new posts from the main page, which is the page I refresh when not specifically browsing through jref. It was a bit easier, and I'm puzzled as to why it was felt that it needed to me moved.

That said, it's not a big enough deal to me to say anything further on it.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I agree with MeAndroo, i dont find it very handy not easily knowing when new posts are done on the serious discussions forum without clicking on the section i want, which is annoying when you are busy but also having a fast/heated debate about somthing.

 

[Elizabeth]

I agree with MeAndroo, i dont find it very handy not easily knowing when new posts are done on the serious discussions forum without clicking on the section i want, which is annoying when you are busy but also having a fast/heated debate about somthing.

Has it actually been migrated to the Europe forum ? I haven't checked, but judging by the prevailing bias among some here that Europeans are more capable of serious discussion than any other group I wouldn't be in the least surprised....

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Has it actually been migrated to the Europe forum ? I haven't checked, but judging by the prevailing bias among some here that Europeans are more capable of serious discussion than any other group I wouldn't be in the least surprised....

I'm not aware of such a bias, but since I'm European, I can't really comment I think the move was intended to reflect the non-Japanese nature of the discussions - but since they are no more European than they are Japanese, it seems a bit of a pointless move to me.

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm not aware of such a bias, but since I'm European, I can't really comment I think the move was intended to reflect the non-Japanese nature of the discussions - but since they are no more European than they are Japanese, it seems a bit of a pointless move to me.

As trivial as it sounds, if you look at the European site layout, the first thought that comes to mind is that the various Serious Discussions subfora were appropriated and "unpacked" mostly to fill out the page -- they don't have a separate language forum so for better or worse "Discussions" has been selected for expanded coverage over there.

 

[sabro]

I like the old spot. It was easier seeing where new posts were added that way. I am an avid daily poster. I am also not European. It seems to have removed a significant amount of traffic and "heat" from the fora-- and I miss the exchanges.
Recently I accepted some restrictions at the suggestions of Maciamo that I think were unwarranted and have limited some of the more lively exchanges...It certainly is "nicer" as of late, but a bit...limited in the type and manner of expression? I'm certain now that Christianity will decline and disappear by Easter vacation.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Judging from the poll, a large majority would like Serious Discussions moved back to the Members' Lounge - and no-one likes its new location. So Thomas or Maciamo, will you move it back? 窶ｰﾂｺ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢?

 

[Duo]

I don't think the serious discussion belongs in the Japan section either. Hardly anthing j-related was discussed there. That said, I think the placement of the serious discussion section is in adjunct with the Europe section, as two split subforums that are not japanese related. No need to think of weird conspiracies of trying to fill up space because a language section is missing or whatever. In fact I would like much to see a language section in the Europe forum not that it has been mentioned, thx for the idea Elizabeth.

 

[Davey]

... Maciamo.. Thomas.. any comments on this~?

 

[Kinsao]

I personally think that there has been less going on in the Serious Discussion section since it was moved.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

The serious discussion section was better off where it was.

My humble opinion.

 

[Maciamo]

Previously, the "Serious Discussion" was one subforum with its own subforums (Linguistics, Religion & Philosophy, American affairs, World news...). I decided to move all under a new "General Discussion" category, and moved this under the Europe Forum because most of the discussions are much more Europe-related than Japan-related.

For instance, linguistics is almost only about European languages (Japanese and Chinese language discussion have their own subforums in the Japan Forum and China Forum). Religion and Philosophy is also predominantly about Western/European religions/philosophy or discussed from a Western point of view (e.g. Islam).

US affairs is obviously "Western", so closer to European discussion than Japanese ones (what's more there is already a "US troops in Japan" subforum in the Japan forum for Japan-US relations).

I hesitated to move World News and "Other Serious Discussions" under the Europe Forum as well, but decided it was better not to split the whole block. If a majority is for, I could move these 2 back to the Japan forum.

As for seeing the latest posts, you just need to check the Europe Forum index to see everything like before.

 

[Maciamo]

Has it actually been migrated to the Europe forum ? I haven't checked, but judging by the prevailing bias among some here that Europeans are more capable of serious discussion than any other group I wouldn't be in the least surprised....

We created the Europe Forum mostly for non-Europeans to learn and discuss about Europe, the same way as the Japan Forum is mostly for non-Japanese to learn and discuss about Japan. So your argument is hardly valid... I also put the US section under Europe, as it's part of the same Western world. For instance, many threads in the linguistic forum are about English or "compared to English", which links Europeans and North Americans.

 

[sabro]

I don't think the US should be under Europe. We fought a war some time ago over that issue and I though it was resolved. There are 300 million of us over here that don't feel like being part of Europe...And besides, not only is the US on another continent, across a wide ocean... it is significantly closer and has historical and economic ties with Japan that Europeans do not share.

 

[Mike Cash]

I have always been in favor of abolishing the "American Affairs" section. Now that I learn "American Affairs" comes under the Eupedia umbrella, I feel so more strongly than ever.

I have always found it's presence anywhere on JREF to be inappropriate....but to be tucked away under Eupedia comes very close to being insulting. (Not that I've ever noticed any Europeans who would give such a thing a second thought).

 

[Kinsao]

Europe and the US are united in not being Japan, but otherwise I don't see why they should be put together. They are culturally different, after all.

I appreciate that we share a language, but I think almost everyone on this forum does speak English, whether it is as first, second, third, fourth, fifth language, and therefore might want to discuss linguistics in their own particular slant...

 

[Maciamo]

Alright, I am fed up of arguing about trivial things like "where should this and that subforums be placed on the forum", so I will move the American affairs, Serious Discussion, Opinions and World News under a new "General Discussion" category under Japan Forum.

 

[Kinsao]

I saw that and I think it is a good idea.

 

[Elizabeth]

I saw that and I think it is a good idea.

I think it is a smart move, too. The good majority of threads were opinions or general discussions on subjects very indirectly if at all related to Western Civilization. All forums have Off topic areas and this is basically off topic for both Japan and Europe so it might as well be categorized that way.

 

[Davey]

Thanks Maciamo.... Sorry that we people can be so