Needs to be said

[kusojiji]

This is probably in violation of some rule, but some comments in a recently closed thread have moved me to post a statement of stunning obviousness that I have nonetheless verified with personal testamony.


IT IS NOT A COMMON BELIEF IN CHINA THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR.



Thank you.

 

[nice gaijin]

As it turns out, the particular poster you're referring to is, as they say, full of ****. I wouldn't worry too much about anyone taking his trolling seriously.

 

[kusojiji]

Good to know!!!

 

[ShadowSpirit]

I honestly don't know what the viewpoint of China or its citizens are towards white people. Though I've never met any American citizens of Chinese descent that felt white people are superior.

However, I did participate in an open discussion group on campus at Cal State (University of Berkeley in Berkeley, California) that held the topic of interracial relationships. I am an American born Sicilian (aka caucasian) man whom at the time was dating a Vietnamese born but American raised woman. We weren't encountering any difficulties or barriers in our relationship that we couldn't handle, but still felt it would be therapeutic to attend this discussion group. The turnout rate of those whom chose to come to this meeting were mostly Asian w/ Caucasian couples. I had come in with a very positive mindset of the things that would be said. I naively presumed that I'd hear plenty of banter about how ideal the relationships are and how they'd wish people to be more accepting. I was terribly wrong.

In a twist that I never would had bet money on. Almost every single Asian person (comprised mostly of students whom hailed from various parts of China) told a similar story of how they wish they were white. Now, this wasn't so much a superior thing. None of them ever confessed to white being smarter, or better for that matter. Though nonetheless I was shocked at what I was hearing. As the shared consensus was, they had wanted to be accepted in the American lifestyle better. I think they felt alienated for coming from a culture that they weren't fully living in, but feeling to never be fully accepted into the culture that they currently were living in. They wondered what their identities were. Are they of their parents traditions from which they can't relate? From this, they felt being white would just uncomplicate their lives in this aspect.

I had a response to the group when it was my turn to speak. I expressed my personal shock and disbelief at what I had witnessed. I said that they represent a very exciting era for their family name. They get the privilege to say that they come from a rich heritage that stems thousands of years of tradition, but have been brought to a different way of life to help forge a new future for themselves and any potential children. That their children can be told the story of how a bloodline traveled so far and survived many changes to create a culture that could savor new experiences whilst proudly serving its history. That to want to be something else would mean giving up more than I feel they have yet learned to appreciate.

I'm telling this story for 2 reasons...

1) Just in case anybody ever felt like they needed to be like someone else to fit in, I hope you take careful heed of the moral that was made in what I just said.

2) This is a live testimony I heard from young Asian-Americans, that stems closely to what sounds like superiority in being white. Yet rather it was about just fitting in. Still, there was definitely no inferiority complex exhibited in this. More just a desire to blend.

I doubt any entire nation of people, least of all China, would ever feel they are inferior to anybody. Especially for as much as they have achieved for themselves.

 

[Emoni]

IT IS NOT A COMMON BELIEF IN CHINA THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR.

Been there... know that.

Where did this come from? lol (Never mind, found it.)

 

[kusojiji]

Some idiot posted it on another thread that was soon closed.

 

[Emoni]

Some idiot posted it on another thread that was soon closed.

Just to make sure... what data did you use to come to this conclusion though

 

[kusojiji]

I lived for two years in China and have worked with thousands of Chinese folks, many of whom I am fortunate to call friends. Never met a single person who even remotely suggested such feelings, and in fact quite the contrary is the common sentiment if anything. One of the things I admire about Chinese folks is their sense of pride in themselves and their country. In some ways I see important similarities between Americans and Chinese, and this is one of them.

The misinformation posted by the numbskull in the other thread is down right offensive.

 

[Emoni]

Offensive material I've always found to be usually quite educational no matter what is said... (although not necessarily in line with the message of the material of course!)

I totally agree that what the poster said was absolutely misinformed and absurd. Anyone who goes to China for 5 minutes will find that the poster's statement is borderline insane and probably outright trolling.

 

[MadamePapillon]

I think they felt alienated for coming from a culture that they weren't fully living in, but feeling to never be fully accepted into the culture that they currently were living in.

It's this sentence that is at the core of most of these cross cultural problems.
This is kind of one of these issues where you know in a way they are right but the problem goes both ways. I've found in many instances it's no so much that everyone else (see: white people) are excluding them but an almost unconscious clan identity that they have that has segregated them in some ways.
I see it all the time and it's at the core of the 'not fitting in' cultural barrier. Warning, generalizations ahead:
Asian people in a predominantly white country tend to band together and form pocket communities. They tend to 'keep to their own kind' in a way, speaking their own language, marrying their own kind, eating their own foods, usually having mainly other asians for friends. It's not so much that they aren't 'fitting in' as they are keeping themselves apart. Fitting in is a two way street, it would probably help the cause if most asian people didn't give off the vibe that they don't really want to co-mingle with white people.
Once again, I'm generalizing for the sake of simplicity. Ok, back on topic.

 

[Half-n-Half]

Asian people in a predominantly white country tend to band together and form pocket communities. They tend to 'keep to their own kind' in a way, speaking their own language, marrying their own kind, eating their own foods, usually having mainly other asians for friends.

I see this all the time at my university. The university I go to is known for having a high population of Chinese/Korean/Japanese foreign students. I always see them in groups together, never with someone of a different ethnicity. There definitely is a barrier that both sides have to overcome to mingle with each other.

 

[Malamis]

I see this all the time at my university. The university I go to is known for having a high population of Chinese/Korean/Japanese foreign students. I always see them in groups together, never with someone of a different ethnicity. There definitely is a barrier that both sides have to overcome to mingle with each other.

Ditto, but there are so many universities within spitting distance of "cosmopolitan" Glasgow, that it becomes a regular occurrence outside the halls of macademia[sic]. On the other hand, one regularly sees a tall, spindly, bearded & bespectacled white man's white man with a (frankly) stunning Oriental on his arm and have to wonder "how in Dorn's name did that happen".


Ruins one's day

 

[kusojiji]

Those generalizations are not useful. Better to say that 'newcomers' of all stripe are more likely to cling to ethic group communities for mutual support when sufficient numbers of the same ethnic group are located to make this possible. Second and third generations (in the US) become more and more likely to move into the wider social and economic life of the country. Asian Americans, for example, are far more likely to marry outside their ethnic group than African Americans who have been in the country for many, many generations. More likely than Latinos or Whites for that matter. The reasons behind all this are more complex than quick 'bites' on a forum. It doesn't have to do with "Asians (not Orientals, please) are like this or that."

 

[Haruspex]

Ditto, but there are so many universities within spitting distance of "cosmopolitan" Glasgow, that it becomes a regular occurrence outside the halls of macademia[sic]. On the other hand, one regularly sees a tall, spindly, bearded & bespectacled white man's white man with a (frankly) stunning Oriental on his arm and have to wonder "how in Dorn's name did that happen".
Ruins one's day

Good thing I have a beard.

 

[ShadowSpirit]

It's this sentence that is at the core of most of these cross cultural problems.
This is kind of one of these issues where you know in a way they are right but the problem goes both ways. I've found in many instances it's no so much that everyone else (see: white people) are excluding them but an almost unconscious clan identity that they have that has segregated them in some ways.
I see it all the time and it's at the core of the 'not fitting in' cultural barrier. Warning, generalizations ahead:
Asian people in a predominantly white country tend to band together and form pocket communities. They tend to 'keep to their own kind' in a way, speaking their own language, marrying their own kind, eating their own foods, usually having mainly other asians for friends. It's not so much that they aren't 'fitting in' as they are keeping themselves apart. Fitting in is a two way street, it would probably help the cause if most asian people didn't give off the vibe that they don't really want to co-mingle with white people.
Once again, I'm generalizing for the sake of simplicity. Ok, back on topic.

I agree to this observation. Though these "pocket communities" you speak of are mostly a majority peer pressure ordeal. Basically the individuals that choose to create these groups tend to heckle their peers into being a part of them. It puts a person in an awkward spot when you have to endure insults for trying to be more socially versatile. I had this Filipino acquaintance who earned him the nickname "white-wash" amongst other Filipinos. Here's the interesting thing about it. He didn't have any white friends. Though he was willing to talk to white people if they chatted with him. This alone was enough to be teased about.

Back to the Berkeley college ordeal. A good friend of my Vietnamese ex girlfriend, was this young Chinese woman (we'll just call her by her first initial) S. Here was an extremely confused woman when it came to this subject at hand. S was tolerant of my presence but would often question whether it was a good idea to cross cultures. S was convinced that I was absolutely clueless as to anything Asian related. An example of such was when a large group of us went to watch a Berkeley production play. It was one of those. "by Asians, about Asians, for Asians" sort of things. It was a satire on Asian lifestyles, parenting, social networks, and so forth. Afterwards, S asked me. "Were you able to enjoy the show?" I replied. "Yes." She paused. "But... did you understand what was going on?" "Understand what?" "Like. The Asian references. Were you able to keep up?" "Yes S. I was." "Well you knew why everybody was laughing when Soy Man came out right?" "Yes S." "So you know that Asians are associated with soy?" "Ooooh. Is that what that was all about? Asians like soy, so they made a reference to it with Soy Man?" "Yeah! That's what I'm talking about. That's why it is funny." "S. I'm *bleep*ing with you. I know what it meant. Please stop acting like I'm an idiot." "Oh sorry. I just wasn't sure."

On an interesting note. S would go on to marry a white man. That didn't so much surprise me as it did irritate me. Cause of all the crap I had to hear from her and the things she used to corrupt my ex gf's mind with in regards to cross cultural relationships.

These are examples of the mindsets that can come from these groups. I empathise with how difficult it must be to try and stand apart from them. It might make it more difficult to make friends and to be accepted by peers if you refuse to safety net of these controversial pocket communities. Perhaps this is why people try so hard to move away from home and build a more carefree life in a hopefully culturally open society.

 

[Frontman]

"There's a germ of truth to the worst of rumors", as the saying goes.

Do Chinese really think that westerners are superior? There are plenty of reasons to say that is true, the move obvious one being that a great many Chinese have gone to great lengths to immigrate to America, Canada, or Western Europe, often illegally and at great risk to themselves.

On the other hand, I'm sure most Chinese would consider themselves to be culturally superior to westerners. After all, the Chinese culture is thousands of years old, and a great number of world-changing innovations were invented in China.

What many Chinese people notice and are sensitive to are the differences between quality-of-life between China and the west. What is the median income of the average Chinese? A fraction of a westerner who does similar work. How many hours per month must a Chinese work to earn that money? Perhaps twice as many. An ordinary person could not look at this situation and not imagine in some way that the west is superior.

I asked my class last week about which country in the world they would like to live. A couple chose Japan, but every other student in the class chose America. I asked them why, and the general consensus was that Americans were "cooler" than Japanese. "Cooler" may not be the same as "superior", but it's not far off.

As for the other thread where the OP stated that "Asians should unite together" or such other nonsense, that was tried before by the Japanese prior to, and during the war. Needless to say, it was not a success. Though to many, Asians may appear to look alike, their respective cultures are most often very different and unique.

At a university or high school you might find Asians sitting together in groups apart from "white" students, but you'll also find that these Asian groups are usually separated by nationality and culture. Intercultural relationships between Chinese and Japanese are less common than they are between Chinese and westerners, or Japanese and westerners. Apparently the cultural differences between Japanese and Chinese are seen as greater than their differences to western culture.

My girlfriend is Japanese, but she loves Chinese food. If we go to a Chinese restaurant in America, she is recognized instantly as being Japanese, and the service is noticeably less friendly. Interesting, isn't it?

 

[kusojiji]

There is a lot wrong with that post, but its a good contribution.

 

[bertiefink]

As for the other thread where the OP stated that "Asians should unite together" or such other nonsense, that was tried before by the Japanese prior to, and during the war. Needless to say, it was not a success. Though to many, Asians may appear to look alike, their respective cultures are most often very different and unique.

It's actually not completely off. The issue of Asians uniting is both reinforced, and complicated by the internet. It's actually more enlightened by the advent of the internet because Asians from all over the world are able to communicate on the subject. However, globalization, as well as the internet are confusing matters. One of the reasons it's so confused is that, on an internet forum, it's difficult to tell where the person who makes a comment about Asian unity is located (unless there's a flag by his name). Generally, they will probably be from the U.S., or Canada. In the U.S., there are of course Asian empowerment groups, Asian media watch groups, etc. (or possibly a main Asian activist and/or media group). The U.S. would be primarily where the need would arise. However, when an Asian American addresses the issue at a forum like this, it can come across as strange, particularly if the readers are from Japan where there are presumably no Asian activist groups (as there wouldn't be any need).
As far as the cool issue, I think this has a lot to do with the American entertainment media (Hollywood) that is largely embraced by Asian nations. So consequently, a number of movies are sold in DVD rental stores throughout Asia, that either subltly glorify White skin, emasculate Asian males, create sexual stereotype of Asian females, or do so of each more blatantly. To viewers of these movies in countries like Japan, HK, and China, all they may see is movies with cool special effects. Although they may tend to glorify White male heroes with the complete absencse of Asian male heroes, male viewers in Japan may not feel the sting because they still have their own (Japanese, Chinese) male heroes. So naturally, the Asian-American is the one to feel the sting. When he expresses himself to this degree, a male from Asia may be clueless. I think that a big problem is that, many don't want to admit that western media is a problem. Comments are made to the effect that Hollywood is merely a function run by socialists. However, it really doesn't matter what they merely are. The fact of the matter is is that Hollywood does have a profound effect on even a global level.