Need a word or phrase translated?

[kumo]

Mikawa Ossan, thanks so much for your help!
Just one more question:

不付is most likely read as つけず No, it's not directly read ふふ

Does this work for every verb when reading 古語? Would 不認 read as 認めず then? What if doing this creates an actual word, like 不言?

Your suggestion about 中 certainly do make sense. But it still strikes me as odd that it is written 御役人中様 instead of 御役人様中...

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Just one more question:
Does this work for every verb when reading 古語? Would 不認 read as 認めず then? What if doing this creates an actual word, like 付言?

No. You have to go on a case by case basis. Since Japanese employs kanji, they have the option to either write in grammatically correct Japanese or just by the meaning they want to convey. Also, the conventions for writing change with time, so it's really impossible to make a blanket statement for all of non-modern Japanese. If it makes an actual word, you're probably better off going with the actual word!

Your suggestion about 中 certainly do make sense. But it still strikes me as odd that it is written 御役人中様 instead of 御役人様中...

Yeah, like I said, I'm not sure about this one. I can only say my best guess. Given the context, it's hard to really think of much else without knowing the social structure of 役人 in the late Edo Period.

By the way, is this for class? Or something you're doing on your own? I was shocked (in a good way) to see your question! Keep them coming!

 

[kevinsano]

On second thought, never mind about the last sentence. I found it myself. This is from a game, right ? And appears to be ヴァンとエールはこのライブメタルを用いてモデルXへと変身する。 In this case the properties of a live metal are probably completely
arbitary and have nothing to do with the real thing.

It's from the game Rockman ZX, but I'm still having trouble understanding those 2 sentences. It has nothing to do with whether it's about real live metal or not.

 

[Elizabeth]

It's from the game Rockman ZX, but I'm still having trouble understanding those 2 sentences. It has nothing to do with whether it's about real live metal or not.

They are basically saying that "live metal" has magical or transformative powers to acquire knowledge and powers and alter the appearance of what it touches or it is used on from X to Y or whatever. I'm not familiar enough with the game to give a better explanation than that -- it's just based on my reading of the parts in question. What exactly is the point of difficulty ?

 

[kumo]

By the way, is this for class? Or something you're doing on your own? I was shocked (in a good way) to see your question! Keep them coming!

No, this is not for my class. I'm just doing it for fun (no, seriously!).
Ok, so now I'm having trouble with the それ entry(浪花聞書 again):
「江戸で云ゑて抔と云名をいわず人をさし云処へ用」
Here's what I came up with:
"When said in Edo, used for pointing at people without saying their names(?) and also for referring to locations/places (like あそこ, I guess)."
My problem is:
云ゑて- I know ゑ is the same as え, and that 云う is the same as 言う, but I have no idea what this conjugation means..
云 - Both 云名 and 云処 are not actual words. So how exactly 云 is working here?
へ用- I assume it means "used as". Correct?

 

[kevinsano]

They are basically saying that "live metal" has magical or transformative powers to acquire knowledge and powers and alter the appearance of what it touches or it is used on from X to Y or whatever. I'm not familiar enough with the game to give a better explanation than that -- it's just based on my reading of the parts in question. What exactly is the point of difficulty ?

さまざまな種類があり、過去の歴史や兵器のデータなどの情報が記録されている。
various information, like records of ancient times and weapon data were found.
自らの意思をもっており、ライブメタルに認められたものは、さらなる知識や力を得る事ができるという。
furthermore, it seemed that.... are able to acquire newfound knowledge

it's the 2nd sentence that gives me the most difficulty. I'm not too really sure about the first sentence.

株式会社カプコン：CAPCOM WORLD JAPAN

 

[epigene]

I'm having trouble translating this definition for 御の字:
「御城などへ御ノ字を不付唱ふ城の番場又城内或は中屋敷抔いふ中屋敷御役人中様など書面にも認る也。」
Here's what I don't understand:
-不付 (ふふ？） I can't find it in any dictionary.
-いふ (is it the same thing as 言う? And if so, shouldn't it be 抔といふ？)
-役人中様 Not sure what 中 is doing here.
-書面にも認る I can't make any sense out of this. With goo's definition for "shitatamaru" it would mean something like "reborn as a new, improved document". This can't be correct...
-也 (same as です?)

I think this is not something an average Japanese (who has forgotten a lot from "kanbun" study a person did during high school and/or college) can tell but will just give my two cents.

Since this is basically information on Osaka dialects that the author collected in the late Edo period , you can't expect to read it exactly according to the rules of modern Japanese. Also, the use of "okurigana" is different. So, only the "kanbun" expert should be able to read it 100% correctly. But some people should be able to guess the meaning from the structure and kanji used.

I think what Mikawa-san said is mostly right.

As for 中屋敷御役人中様, I think that 中様 is used to address the official or officials. Only, it is used to mean whoever is holding the rank at that time, when you have no knowledge of who exactly is holding that title. I may be totally wrong but I think it is correlated to the use of 御中 used in mailing addresses today when you write a letter to a company and write the name of a business division but not any person in particular: XX社お客様サービス御中

書面にも認る is read しょめんにもしたためる, meaning put down in writing.

Hope it helps!

 

[kumo]

さまざまな種類があり、過去の歴史や兵器のデータなどの情報が記録されている。
various information, like records of ancient times and weapon data were found.
自らの意思をもっており、ライブメタルに認められたものは、さらなる知識や力を得る事ができるという。
furthermore, it seemed that.... are able to acquire newfound knowledge
it's the 2nd sentence that gives me the most difficulty. I'm not too really sure about the first sentence.
株式会社カプコン：CAPCOM WORLD JAPAN

Here's how I would translate it:

さまざまな種類があり、過去の歴史や兵器のデータなどの情報が記録されている。
There are many types(of live metal, I assume), in which history information and weapon data are recorded.
自らの意思をもっており、ライブメタルに認められたものは、さらなる知識や力を得る事ができるという。
Even more knowledge and strength can be gained by those who are recognized by "live metal" and are willing to accept it.

 

[epigene]

My try:

さまざまな種類があり、過去の歴史や兵器のデータなどの情報が記録されている。
There are various types (of live metal), and they hold information such as data on history and weapons of the past.

自らの意思をもっており、ライブメタルに認められたものは、さらなる知識や力を得る事ができる という。
It has its own will, and objects identified as live metal reportedly give you greater knowledge and power.

HTH!!

PS Oops! Looks like I posted at the same time as kumo-san!!

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

書面にも認る is read しょめんにもしたためる, meaning put down in writing.
Hope it helps!

Thanks epigene! I wasn't 100% sure on that either. I guess I should go back and do some reviewing!

 

[kevinsano]

thanks kumo and epigene. And Elizabeth too!!

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Ok, so now I'm having trouble with the それ entry(浪花聞書 again):

Not to be picky, but this is the れそ entry.

「江戸で云ゑて抔と云名をいわず人をさし云処へ用」
Here's what I came up with:
"When said in Edo, used for pointing at people without saying their names(?) and also for refering to locations/places (like あそこ, I guess)."
My problem is:
云ゑて- I know ゑ is the same as え, and that 云う is the same as 言う, but I have no idea what this conjugation means..
云 - Both 云名 and 云処 are not actual words. So how exactly 云 is working here?
へ用- I assume it means "used as". Correct?

Well, I am no expert; I'll be honest with you.

However, to address your questions....um....how well do you know terms such as ワ行 and 已然形? It's much easier to talk about Japanese grammar in Japanese, after all.

As far as I can tell, I think you have the general gist of the entry, though. Granted, I don't understand it completely, either!

To address your earlier question, is 云ふ the same as 云う?, yes, it is. There's a little technical explanation for this, but basically writing 云う as 云ふ is something called 歴史的仮名遣い. Here is a good link for explaining its usage.

完全版 歴史的仮名遣い教室

 

[epigene]

江戸で云ゑて抔と云名をいわず人をさし云処へ用

I won't dare read it (though this is more legible to me than the first one ) but it translates as:

Reported to be said in Edo (江戸で云ゑて抔と云), used to point to a person without referring to his/her name (名をいわず人をさし云処へ用).

HTH!

 

[kumo]

However, to address your questions....um....how well do you know terms such as ワ行 and 已然形? It's much easier to talk about Japanese grammar in Japanese, after all.

I must admit I'm not so good at Japanese grammar terms... Even though my class is all in Japanese, we only use more "simple" terms (自動詞、助詞、過去形, etc). But if you could provide a link explaining them I'd be willing to learn (I'll take a closer look at the link you gave me when I have more time).

Anyway, thanks for the help again! Epigene-san too!!

 

[Fuumei]

"tabereba taberu hodo oishiku narimasu"
This usage of 'hodo' is really confusing my brain, a lot. I know what it is supposed to mean, (the more i eat it the more tasty it gets) but I can't break down the sentence structure to give me an idea of what is actually said. Any ideas how I can wrap my peanut-sized brain around this one?

Thank you all so much in advance! Honto ni arigatou!

 

[J44xm]

"tabereba taberu hodo oishiku narimasu"
This usage of 'hodo' is really confusing my brain, a lot. I know what it is supposed to mean, (the more i eat it the more tasty it gets) but I can't break down the sentence structure to give me an idea of what is actually said. Any ideas how I can wrap my peanut-sized brain around this one?

It's quite fascinating and amusing that I saw this today because, just this morning, I read about "hodo" from some material I printed online. And given that your example sentence is precisely identical to one I saw, I strongly suspect that you got it from Tae Kim's guide, right? We learned about "hodo" on the same day, it seems.

I'll break it down:

「食べれば 食べる ほど 、 おいしく なる。」
"Tabereba taberu hodo, oishiku naru."

The base verb is "taberu," an ichidan verb meaning "to eat." The conditional form is "tabereba," and this essentially means "if x eats." Since the subject is unknown, I suppose it's safe to substitute "you" for this example. Thus, "if you eat."

Next is "taberu" followed immediately by "hodo." As Tae Kim's guide says, "hodo" boils down to "extent to/of." Literally, you can think of this as "eating-extent" or "extent of eating." (This is generally how I do things in my head.) More naturally, it's "to the extent of eating" or "to the extent that you eat." When you add the conditional "tabereba," the sentence to this point essentially reads thusly: "If one eats, (then) to the extent that you eat, ..."

Make sense thus far? Don't try too much to fit it into the scheme of "the more you [verb]" meaning it's analogous to. Try to take it at face value.

Finally, "oishiku naru": "Oishiku" originates from the pure adjective "oishii" 「おいしい」, meaning "tasty; delicious." I don't know if you have studied this yet, but whenever an adjective is applied to a verb, it takes adverbial form. For pure adjectives (which end with -i), you drop the final -i and add -ku. So "oishii" becomes "oishiku."

The verb that "oishiku" is applied to is "naru," meaning "to become." Thus, "becomes tasty." (In a more literal sense, it translates to "becomes tastily." That's just how Japanese adjectives work.)

Let's see if I can concoct more examples of this usage:

みんなはミルクを飲めば飲むほど、元気です！
Minna wa MIRUKU wo nomeba nomu hodo, genki desu!
The more milk everyone drinks, the healthier they are!
Literally: As for everyone, if they drink milk, to the extent that they drink it, they'll be healthy!

Well, it's late and I'm tired, so that the only example I've got on me at the moment. I hope this provided some help to you. (It's nice to see progress in myself as well. I'm slowly becoming useful. やった！)

 

[Fuumei]

It's quite fascinating and amusing that I saw this today because, just this morning, I read about "hodo" from some material I printed online. And given that your example sentence is precisely identical to one I saw, I strongly suspect that you got it from Tae Kim's guide, right?

Actually I've been trying to research this usage of hodo since last night, and one of the sites I came across had that example listed (I don't remember which site it was). I printed it out and memorized it, saying it over and over in my head. Once in awhile it would make sense, and then sometimes it wouldn't. (That's me for you.) Thank's so much for your quick reply, It's really appreciated! I'm nearing the end of Japanese for Busy People 2, and things are starting to get a little bumpy. I hope you'll have time to answer another one of my questions later if I have one. Thanks again!

 

[Fuumei]

"Dou suru to aku n desu ka" (aku = open/vacant)
"Botan wo osu to akimasu"

I'm studying the "to" particle at the moment, and the top portion (dou suru to) is confusing me. I know 'to' means "when A happens, B takes place" So how would I translate these two correctly?

I see this as: What do I do when it is open/vacant? -> When you press this button, it opens.

I know it's not right, can anyone shed some light on it? Just a tiny bit?

 

[pipokun]

I must admit I'm not so good at Japanese grammar terms... Even though my class is all in Japanese, we only use more "simple" terms (自動詞、助詞、過去形, etc). But if you could provide a link explaining them I'd be willing to learn (I'll take a closer look at the link you gave me when I have more time).
Anyway, thanks for the help again! Epigene-san too!!

Do you study Jyoruri or Chikamatsu?
れそ=それ is a demonstrative pronoun.
Older Japanese don't call his/her partner's name even now.
持っているかもしれませんが、古語辞典があると便利だと思う。高校卒業する日本人と友達になったら、ただでくれるかもよ。
今後研究者として、本格的に勉強するなら（特に、江戸時代以前の文章）漢文も勉強すると良いかもね。

 

[Elizabeth]

"Dou suru to aku n desu ka" (aku = open/vacant)
"Botan wo osu to akimasu"
I'm studying the "to" particle at the moment, and the top portion (dou suru to) is confusing me. I know 'to' means "when A happens, B takes place" So how would I translate these two correctly?
I see this as: What do I do when it is open/vacant? -> When you press this button, it opens.
I know it's not right, can anyone shed some light on it? Just a tiny bit?

The top one means "How do I open it?" (If you do it how, will it open ?)

 

[luciferous]

hi everyone, I have been learning japanese for exactly one month today and I thought I know I will try and get a japanese penfriend, it will help speed my learning along, her english is not fantastic so we write our emails half in english half in japanese, its slow going but its rewarding, up util this morning when she sent me this question.

Anata wa donoyouna e wo kakimasuka? Ningen?Kesiki?

the bold words are the ones I am having trouble with, normally i would just sit and puzzle it out but i am going away for a few daysand would like to reply to her as quickly as possible,

So any help would beapreciated, thanks in advance

Shane

 

[Elizabeth]

hi everyone, I have been learning japanese for exactly one month today and I thought I know I will try and get a japanese penfriend, it will help speed my learning along, her english is not fantastic so we write our emails half in english half in japanese, its slow going but its rewarding, up util this morning when she sent me this question.
Anata wa donoyouna e wo kakimasuka? Ningen?Kesiki?
the bold words are the ones I am having trouble with, normally i would just sit and puzzle it out but i am going away for a few daysand would like to reply to her as quickly as possible,
So any help would beapreciated, thanks in advance
Shane

She's asking what kind of pictures you draw. People or scenary ?

 

[iroirona]

I'm trying to construct long Japanese sentences but I have a little difficulty in phrasing them correctly.
For example:
I didn't realise how interesting learning a foreign language was until I studied Japanese for the first time.
外国語を学ぶことは初めて日本語を勉強するまでどんなに面白いか知らなかった.
Is the above translation ok?

Also, I have one grammar point I'm not sure of:
Speaking in Japanese is quite easy but reading and writing are difficult.
1.日本語の話しは、比較的易しいんですが読み書きは難しい。
2.日本語を話すのは比較的易しいんですが読んで書くのは難しい。

Sentence 1 uses the ~masu verb stem which behaves as a regular noun. Sentence 2 uses the nominalized verb which behaves as a noun as well. Are both forms applicable without any nuances in the translations?
The same goes with the sentence below.

I saw Michael and asked him about Bob.
1.マイケルに会い、ボブのことを尋ねた。
2.マイケルに会ってボブのことを尋ねた。


Thanks in advance.

 

[epigene]

iroirona-san, your Japanese is very good. There are no serious errors--just minor changes needed to make it natural:

外国語を学ぶことは初めて日本語を勉強するまでどんなに面白いか知らなかった.

初めて日本語を勉強するまで、 外国語を学ぶことがどんなに面白いか知らなかった。

1.日本語の話しは、比較的易しいんですが読み書きは難しい。
2.日本語を話すのは比較的易しいんですが読んで書くのは難しい。
Sentence 1 uses the ~masu verb stem which behaves as a regular noun. Sentence 2 uses the nominalized verb which behaves as a noun as well. Are both forms applicable without any nuances in the translations?

No. 2 is correct--just add "ten" after 比較的易しいんですが for better readability. No. 1 is wrong in 日本語の話しは. If I was to improve it without making any major changes, it would be:
日本語は、話すのは比較的易しいんですが、読んで書くのは難しい。

1.マイケルに会い、ボブのことを尋ねた。
2.マイケルに会ってボブのことを尋ねた。

Both are OK. The difference between the two would be that No. 1 would be more formal. Also, add a "ten" after 会って.

HTH!

 

[J44xm]

「四月から二年ほど日本に住むつもりです。」

Is this sentence correct? (It's supposed to mean "From April, I intend to live in Japan for two years.") I found another word to use as "for" in "for two years," but I left my nihongo binder in a friend's car （くそっ！） and don't remember what it is. (Something like 「かん」?) Anyway, I figure 「ほど」 might work too. 本当にそうですか。