It could be a different Google module, but mine resulted in completely different numbers from these same terms :? which gave a slight advantage tojt_ said:(This is a nit-picky point, but I can't resist.)
Of course, you can leave out the きて, but I wouldn't say that it's "most naturally" reduced to that. I think in the case of someone going on vacation it's equally (if not more) natural to say 「楽しんできてください」 as compared to just 「楽しんでください」, because of the sense of motion involved. (I mean, look at your own examples of 「楽しんできましたか？」 and 「行ってらっしゃい」, both of which contain verbs of motion.)
A quick google search gives me:
760件 for 「旅行楽しんでね」
9,170件 for 「旅行楽しんできてね」
2,810件 for 「旅行楽しんでください」
10,800件 for 「旅行楽しんできてください」
Again, a minor point, but I'm just a nit-picker like that.
As far as I know, Google doesn't have different "modules." Did you just search for 「楽しんでください」 vs. 「楽しんできてください」 or did you have 「旅行」 in there as well? My numbers were including 「旅行」, because without it, you'll get a lot of examples of people wishing others a fun something else, where the nuance of きて doesn't fit as well as it does in the case of talking about a vacation.Elizabeth said:It could be a different Google module, but mine resulted in completely different numbers from these same terms...
Of course, this is true, but this isn't what we were talking about. Whether to say 「楽しんできてね」 or 「楽しんでね」 has nothing to do with whether or not 「旅行」 is explicitly stated.It probably depends to some extent as well on whether the trip is already the topic under discussion, in which case a simple "please have fun (a fun trip)" may be enough.
my mother's chin was up and she was staring down at him along the full length of her nose.
jt_ said:Of course, you can leave out the きて, but I wouldn't say that it's "most naturally" reduced to that. I think in the case of someone going on vacation it's equally (if not more) natural to say 「楽しんできてください」 as compared to just 「楽しんでください」, because of the sense of motion involved. (I mean, look at your own examples of 「楽しんできましたか？」 and 「行ってらっしゃい」, both of which contain verbs of motion.)
It isn't that worth arguing about unless there is something like a language switch for 'japanese only' that could be activated, but yes I did include 旅行 and came up with just 687 hits. As for the second point, I simply meant that 'kite' might be used less in conversations where the subject of a trip was already clear.jt_ said:As far as I know, Google doesn't have different "modules." Did you just search for 「楽しんでください」 vs. 「楽しんできてください」 or did you have 「旅行」 in there as well? My numbers were including 「旅行」, because without it, you'll get a lot of examples of people wishing others a fun something else, where the nuance of きて doesn't fit as well as it does in the case of talking about a vacation.
Of course, this is true, but this isn't what we were talking about. Whether to say 「楽しんできてね」 or 「楽しんでね」 has nothing to do with whether or not 「旅行」 is explicitly stated.
I don't know how conversational it is, butkisu said:恋しい is it then? I did use the search but there wasn't much depth to what I found...
Then how is it in past tence? ><;
「あっても」の「も」という字を込める文は、少しでも「あまりこだわりがない、特にこだわらない」のような感じになると思いませんか？CorDarei said:Also, the person's reply didn't actually include どっちもいい。 What they said was "お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います。" which I would translate more as "I don't see anything wrong with having the choice." and doesn't sound at all offhand to me. If it was "どっちも構いません。" then it would sound offhand ^_^. Just my 一円.
僕こそ、いつもややこしい英語と下手な日本語で申し訳ありません。Pox said:以下、申し訳無いですが、すべて日本語で書きます。
あっ、これはどうも失礼しました！完全に僕の勘違いでしたね。僕も自分の日本語力にはあまり自信がPox said:To jt-san:
自分の英語力に問題が大ありなので、書けなかっただけで、
ちゃんとjtさんのレスは読めていましたよ。
i was wondering wether ~~~ or notと過去形で書いたので、
"前は"～～かどうか疑問に思っていたけど、"今は"おかげさまで解決しましたよ～、
みたいな感じになるのかな～？と・・・。
確かにそうですね・・・全く違うと言われる英語と日本語にも共通点もあるってことですよね。Pox said:自分の場合は英文の中に日本語のne?を挿入することが好きか嫌いかは
特に無いですが、単純にne?が日本語かどうかを知りたかったんです。
heheとか、hahaみたいに同じこともあるので。
僕が説明しようとしていたポイントを、丁寧にご説明していただいて本当にありがとうございました。Pox said:確かに、これから旅行に行こうとしている人に、
「楽しんでください」とは普通言わず、「楽しんで"きて"ください」と言います。
「楽しんでください」は、例えば、パーティーなどに参加者が来て、
主催者がその人に、「さあ、今日は楽しんでください！」と言う場合だと思います。
Your question was clearly understand, Pox-san, but naturally this being a discussion board most people are going to feel free to give their opinion on all aspects of a subject....what we like, dislike, makes us insane and feel like killing over (of course not that far most of the time) want to hear more and less of etc.自分の場合は英文の中に日本語のne?を挿入することが好きか嫌いかは特に無いですが、
単純にne?が日本語かどうかを知りたかったんです。
heheとか、hahaみたいに同じこともあるので。
This is quite strange that we're getting different results, but just in case we're not using the same search settings or something, here are the direct links.Elizabeth said:It isn't that worth arguing about unless there is something like a language switch for 'japanese only' that could be activated, but yes I did include 旅行 and came up with just 687 hits.
I guess I must not be making myself clear. Please read Poxさん's explanation of the difference between the two phrases above. Maybe you'll accept the difference between the two if you hear it from a native speaker instead of from me. The difference in nuance here really has nothing to do with whether or not the topic of the conversation is clear from context.Elizabeth said:As for the second point, I simply meant that 'kite' might be used less in conversations where the subject of a trip was already clear.
I do understand it more fully now, thanks both jt and Pox-san ! It wasn't a matter of not accepting, I just couldn't be sure we were talking on precisely the same point. And my searches were only on "旅行楽しんでください" vs. "旅行楽しんできてください." At any rate, おかがさまで、よく理解できました。 今日は結構ですね。jt_ said:This is quite strange that we're getting different results, but just in case we're not using the same search settings or something, here are the direct links.
Not a problem... I'm happy to be of help (although I think Pox-san's explanation was more valuable, as it's coming from a native speaker). Sorry if any of my posts sounded confrontational...Elizabeth said:I do understand it more fully now, thanks both jt and Pox-san ! It wasn't a matter of not accepting, I just couldn't be sure we were talking on precisely the same point.
Don't you think that saying that every sentence that contains /gerund + も/ has an "offhand" sound to it would be a pretty serious overgeneralization?Elizabeth said:「あっても」の「も」という字を込める文は、少しでも「あまりこだわりがない、特にこだわらない」のような 感じになると思うのかな？CorDarei said:Also, the person's reply didn't actually include どっちもいい。 What they said was "お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います。" which I would translate more as "I don't see anything wrong with having the choice." and doesn't sound at all offhand to me. If it was "どっちも構いません。" then it would sound offhand ^_^. Just my 一円.
私も誰にもけんかを売っているつもりなどまったくありません。jt_ said:Not a problem... I'm happy to be of help (although I think Pox-san's explanation was more valuable, as it's coming from a native speaker). Sorry if any of my posts sounded confrontational...
なんか、日本語文法の話になるとすぐムキになる性格なんで・・・ごめんなさい :sorry:
Don't you think that saying that every sentence that contains /gerund + も/ has an "offhand" sound to it would be a pretty serious overgeneralization?
For example, if someone were to say to a friend who were moving away:
「離れててもずっと友達だよ！」
...would you take this to mean that the person who said so didn't really care about being separated from his friend?
(Also, just another note: at the end of your question there, I would suggest 「・・・と思いませんか？」 instead of 「・・・思うのかな」, because the latter sounds like in some way you're assuming that he _does_ think what you're saying, when the nature of his post suggests that, if anything, it's just the opposite.)
I'm not sure if this explanation will help any, but here's the way I see it. There are two options being presented here: お見合い結婚 and 恋愛結婚. Of course, 恋愛結婚 is generally accepted to be a good thing, but the idea this person is trying to express is that the existence of お見合い結婚 as a possible option is not a terrible thing either. As a possible option, お見合い結婚 can be okay _too_. Hence the も.Elizabeth said:As for the question, I meant it within the limits of the target sentence (お見合い結婚という選択肢があっても良いと思います). Certainly if I'd interpreted his statement as "You may have the choice of an arranged marriage," I understand the grammatical function of 'mo.' In this case, "It's good to have the choice" I don't think the reason for it is entirely clear in my mind.
Yeah, this is something that I always worry about too. Actually, though, it's not really the 「かな」 that's doing it so much as the use of the "extended predicate" question pattern 「の？」 in conjuction with 「思う」. If you say 「・・・と思うのかな」 it sounds like you're expressing conjecture about what the other person is thinking. If it's _your own_ conjecture that you're trying to express, I'd suggest something like (with what you were trying to say above) 「～～感じになるのではないでしょうか」, or like I said before, 「・・・と思いませんか？」 if you're asking for the person's opinion (and seeking agreement).Elizabeth said:And thanks for the suggestion on "kana"....I'm terrible (terrified as well) at ending things and giving an entirely mistaken feeling or impression. In this instance, I wanted it to come through as "I wonder if it may be just a little more careless or offhand with the mo than without it?" since that may not have been something they had considered in their response.
Haven't been around for a while, just jumping in herekisu said:Okay here's the context I'm looking for..
(2 comes back from 2 week trip; 1 greets him)
1: イェーイ！お帰り~
2: ありがとう
1: I missed you.
~Kisu
Glenn said:笑うな！(warau na!)
Or if you want to be more poite -- 笑わないでください (warawanaide kudasai).