Need a word or phrase translated?

[Elizabeth]

Your interpritation "visible" is correct, but the sentence is 勉強している気, not 勉強する気. Children feel that they study enough/much by 形が残る勉強.

So 気になりますが refers to "feel like" they have studied because an answer remains on the page and not "worry about" ? I was confused as the former seems generally found in a negative form (can't be bothered, can't bring self to do etc), although of course there are exceptions to this rule.

 

[Toritoribe]

The affirmative form ～する/している気になる is not an EXCEPTION but a QUITE COMMON expression. Also, you are misunderstanding the meaning of this form. This 気になる doesn't mean "bother".

ぼくは、かれがまさかその思いつきを実際にやる気になるとは、思わなかった。
水源の秘密 トマス・ハーディ著 はやしたかし訳

だからこそ島へ渡り、山に登る気になるともいえるが、
鹿児島しまみち紀行 大木隆志著

自らＭＯＭＡ（ニューヨーク近代美術館）やグッゲンハイム美術館を訪ねる気になるのだ。
時間活用力をつける 下保進著

一晩考えればしゃべる気になるだろう
族譜の果て 梁石日著

粘り強いから走る気になると人気薄でも激走しそう。
100円馬券師のクラシック攻略法 藤野広一郎著

またわたしたちもがんばる気になるんじゃない
四季・奈津子 五木寛之著

和夫さん夫婦は郁子さんの両親が同居する気になるのを待つことにした。
新しい二世帯｢同居｣住宅のつくり方 天野彰著

青天井で物事を依頼する気になるであろうか。
こんなにおもしろい弁護士の仕事 千原曜著

金は会社の金なのに自分が出している気になること妙である。
世は〆切 山本夏彦著

彼女が過ごしてきた日々の細部をも、知っている気になる。
人生ベストテン 角田光代著

 

[DranzerX13]

I have a question. There is an anime episode titled "DNA窶｢ﾃｯﾋ?坂?禿? (DNA Hōimō) Could it be translated as "The DNA Coalition" ?

 

[Elizabeth]

The positive form ～する/している気になる is not an EXCEPTION but a QUITE COMMON expression. Also, you are misunderstanding the meaning of this form. This 気になる doesn't mean "bother".

ぼくは、かれがまさかその思いつきを実際にやる気になるとは、思わなかった。
水源の秘密 トマス・ハーディ著 はやしたかし訳

だからこそ島へ渡り、山に登る気になるともいえるが、
鹿児島しまみち紀行 大木隆志著

自らＭＯＭＡ（ニューヨーク近代美術館）やグッゲンハイム美術館を訪ねる気になるのだ。
時間活用力をつける 下保進著

一晩考えればしゃべる気になるだろう
族譜の果て 梁石日著

粘り強いから走る気になると人気薄でも激走しそう。
100円馬券師のクラシック攻略法 藤野広一郎著

またわたしたちもがんばる気になるんじゃない
四季・奈津子 五木寛之著

和夫さん夫婦は郁子さんの両親が同居する気になるのを待つことにした。
新しい二世帯｢同居｣住宅のつくり方 天野彰著

青天井で物事を依頼する気になるであろうか。
こんなにおもしろい弁護士の仕事 千原曜著

金は会社の金なのに自分が出している気になること妙である。
世は〆切 山本夏彦著

彼女が過ごしてきた日々の細部をも、知っている気になる。
人生ベストテン 角田光代著

OK, thanks so much. You truly are the best. I'm at work now but that looks like an awesome study list. And no doubt we are both talking about a common expression, just one that didn't, in the affirmative, have the connotation of "feel like" - in my experience. . Bother in the sense of similar to "don't feel like" doing.

 

[Macrobiotic]

Thanks again.

Here I need help with the second part of this sentence.

元凶を追求する者は、何を悪と定めるだろう。

I don't know if it's a question, a rhetorical question or even what it's really saying. This verb used like this in this combination etc... Something about "what will (that person) decide as evil". Like turning something which was from the beginning good, or maybe neutral, into evil?
From the broader context I understand it's related to good and evil, and that those who seek evil power will eventually be destroyed by it.

 

[Toritoribe]

Bother in the sense of similar to "don't feel like" doing.

In the negative form, right? ～する気になる doesn't have such a negative nuance that "bother" has, except when used with, for instance, わざわざ. (In other words, that negative tone is conveyed by わざわざ, not ～気になる.)

Thanks again.

Here I need help with the second part of this sentence.

元凶を追求する者は、何を悪と定めるだろう。

I don't know if it's a question, a rhetorical question or even what it's really saying. This verb used like this in this combination etc... Something about "what will (that person) decide as evil". Like turning something which was from the beginning good, or maybe neutral, into evil?
From the broader context I understand it's related to good and evil, and that those who seek evil power will eventually be destroyed by it.

That would be a question to the speaker themselves.
定める means "to define" here.

 

[Elizabeth]

In the negative form, right? ～する気になる doesn't have such a negative nuance that "bother" has, except when used with, for instance, わざわざ. (In other words, that negative tone is conveyed by わざわざ, not ～気になる.)

Hmmm.....What about *Totemo benkyou suru ki ni narenai* as a translation for "Cannot be bothered to study ?" :?

 

[Mike Cash]

Hmmm.....What about *Totemo benkyou suru ki ni narenai* as a translation for "Cannot be bothered to study ?" :?

That sounds more like "I can't get in the mood to study".

 

[DranzerX13]

Would 決斷時刻 (jueduan shike) translate to 時刻の決断 (Ketsudan no jikoku) from Chinese to Japanese?

The English translation is "Decision Time"

 

[Toritoribe]

Hmmm.....What about *Totemo benkyou suru ki ni narenai* as a translation for "Cannot be bothered to study ?" :?

Please read my previous posts more carefully. I said the AFFIRMATIVE form ～する気になる doesn't have such a negative tone. I've never talked about ～する気にならない.

 

[Elizabeth]

Please read my previous posts more carefully. I said the AFFIRMATIVE form ～する気になる doesn't have such a negative tone. I've never talked about ～する気にならない.

Oh, OK. Apologies are in order. The miscommunication was mine for writing unclearly and writing too much at the office, under time constraints. It looked like from the question you were assuming that I was talking about the negative form. In any case, both "wazawaza" and "ki ni narenai" do appear actually under my dictionary entry for "cannot be bothered" -- which is only different from "don't feel like" in that the former case gives an impression the speaker/writer has more important things to do with his or her time, or who is busy and cannot be bothered by current problems.

 

[Toritoribe]

So 気になりますが refers to ... and not "worry about" ?

OK, in the first place, where was your interpritation "not "worry about"" coming from in the original Japanese sentence? I assumed you thought 気になりますが meant so, as in 気になりません does, no?

 

[Macrobiotic]

Here's something which I don't really understand.

今日は、昨日にもまして更に快晴。（超快晴とでも言うのかなあ）

Instead of just と言う, there's と followed by でも. What does this mean, and what is that last sentence saying?

Here's a sentence with a quote in older japanese it seems. I can't understand the last part, or even distinguish the separate words in the construction "人なからしめんこと".

日本の教育観は、すべての子供に等しく学力をつけることを目指すものでした。
「邑（むら）に不学の戸なく、家に不学の人なからしめんことを期す」（明治５年の学制発布）

 

[Toritoribe]

I think this (weather) would be called 超快晴.

でも provides a nuance of "something like".


EDIT:
（全ての）家から不学の人をなくさせることを期する （＝ 全ての家に不学の人がいないようにすることを期する）

なから: 未然形(the -nai stem) of 無し

しめ: 未然形 of an auxiliary verb for causative しむ. an equivalent to させる in Modern Japanese

ん: the n-euphonic change of an auxiliary verb む, which expresses the subject's volition. an equivalent to う/よう in Modern Japanese

 

[Macrobiotic]

Thanks. I see you replied before I edited in another question. I didn't want to double-post, so there's still something in my last post I need help with.

And here's yet another one. It's the expression "いよいよとばかりに" I would like explained. Is it something like "just finally (after a long wait etc)" or "at the last moment"?

今週には梅雨明けも発表され、いよいよとばかりに元気にセミが鳴き始めました。

 

[Toritoribe]

The former one is correct.

 

[Macrobiotic]

Thanks again for all the help.

Yet another question.

「紙」という一字について、参加者の方からとても面白いご投稿をいただいたため、それを取り上げたく思った次第。
この字については、グループができたての頃に私の方でも記事を書いたのですが……そちらよりずっと興味をそそられる内容です。（笑）

First, is the 方 used in this sentence for 参加者の方 and 私の方でも different readings of 方? Maybe the first one should be read as かた and the second one as ほう, since the first one refers to a person other than the writer and might be for politeness, and the second refers to something the writer did in contrast to something done by the other part, therefore ほう. I have no confirmation for this though, maybe it should be ほう both times because something is being received from somewhere, in this case from 参加者の方 while something other is being contributed from somewhere else (私の方)?

Another example, should this be ほう or かた like in "lowest person" or "towards the lowest"?

学校や塾などの集団指導は、低い方に合わせる形になりがちです。（あるいは高い方に合わせて低い方は見捨てる形に）

Secondly, I'm unfamiliar with the use of 次第 like in "それを取り上げたく思った次第" . I understand other uses for this expression but this type of construction has puzzled me for some time.

 

[Lotorie]

「いととひかたき」？

「いと問い難き」（聞きにくい）か「いとど干難き」（乾きにくい）か読んでもわからん！！

濁るのか濁らないのかわかるように

The person receives a message: first sentence, and as he doesn't have kanjis, he doesn't know how to read it.

I understand he's hesitating between reading as: 「いと問い難き」 or as :「いとど干難き」but I don't understand what is in parenthesis.

So as for 濁る

濁る 【にごる】 (v5r,vi) (1) to become muddy; to become cloudy; to get impure (of a liquid, gas, etc.); (2) to become dull (of a sound, color, etc.); to become hoarse; (3) to become impure (of a heart, society, etc.); to be corrupted; to be polluted; (4) (See 濁り・にごり・3) to become voiced; to add voiced consonant marks; (P); ED

Is it the last one, that he doesn't understand if he has to add a voiced consonant mark or not?

The title of the chapter is "tenten and maru".

Thanks!

 

[Mike Cash]

I think the bit in parentheses is giving the meaning in modern Japanese of the bit that comes before. The opening kana seems to be in the old pre-reform style of kana usage (とひ for modern とい) and the second example shows why the modern "tenten" is necessary: to prevent confusion in knowing whether to read the character と as "to" or "do".

If you're not familiar with 旧仮名遣い then this text may not make much sense to you.

 

[Lotorie]

Alright. I try to learn so it is a bit difficult but I will read more about this.

Thanks !

 

[Toritoribe]

Thanks again for all the help.

Yet another question.

「紙」という一字について、参加者の方からとても面白いご投稿をいただいたため、それを取り上げたく思った次第。
この字については、グループができたての頃に私の方でも記事を書いたのですが……そちらよりずっと興味をそそられる内容です。（笑）

First, is the 方 used in this sentence for 参加者の方 and 私の方でも different readings of 方? Maybe the first one should be read as かた and the second one as ほう, since the first one refers to a person other than the writer and might be for politeness, and the second refers to something the writer did in contrast to something done by the other part, therefore ほう. I have no confirmation for this though, maybe it should be ほう both times because something is being received from somewhere, in this case from 参加者の方 while something other is being contributed from somewhere else (私の方)?

Another example, should this be ほう or かた like in "lowest person" or "towards the lowest"?

学校や塾などの集団指導は、低い方に合わせる形になりがちです。（あるいは高い方に合わせて低い方は見捨てる形に）

Secondly, I'm unfamiliar with the use of 次第 like in "それを取り上げたく思った次第" . I understand other uses for this expression but this type of construction has puzzled me for some time.

You are totally correct about かた and ほう in the first example.
Both are ほう in the second one, lower side and higher side.

次第 is the same as わけ（です） here.

３ 物事の、そうなるに至った理由。わけ。事情。「そんな―で明日は伺えない」

次第（しだい）の意味 - goo国語辞書

 

[Elizabeth]

OK, in the first place, where was your interpritation "not "worry about"" coming from in the original Japanese sentence? I assumed you thought 気になりますが meant so, as in 気になりません does, no?

Because the structure that is established with "ki ni naru" is EXACTLY the same as "__youna ki ga suru" and functions as "feel like/feel that" in this sentence....Normally ki ni naru has the connotation of mind/concerned about/anxious/uneasy etc. and this varient usage was unusual. That was my conclusion. ;-). Why, do you see it any differently ?

 

[Toritoribe]

Are you saying 気になる, ような気になる, ～する気になる (plus, ～する気にならない should be added) are all the same?

 

[Elizabeth]

Are you saying 気になる, ような気になる, ～する気になる are all same?

I didn't say anything about the forms. What I do (or did) think is that "verb + ki ni naru" normally translated in English is "interested in doing" or "feel like doing" the said action. Which it isn't in this case. It IS very similar, in my mind at least, to the connotation of "feel that" (aka "(youna) ki ga suru.") Of that at least I am certain.

 

[Toritoribe]

～する気になる has a more active nuance like "to make up one's mind to do". What you are referring to is ～している気になる, as in the original sentence. Maybe the difference between these two expressions causes confusion on us?