Need a word or phrase translated?

[undrentide]

「あばよ」 is not really a bad word, yet it is very much likely to sound rude.

Though dictionary says it is a casual form of farewell, derived from 「さあらばよ」「さらばよ」, in daily life we hardly say 「あばよ」.
One might say it when leaving the scene in bad mood.

 

[Fehrant]

where did you hear あばよ？

Videogames; anime. Where else? My only contact with "real" Japanese (if it can truly be called that) is the classes I've been taking around... two months ago or so.

One might say it when leaving the scene in bad mood.

Yeah, I was sure it wasn't just any standard safe-to-use goodbye.


By the way, KrazyKat, thanks for the corrections. I'm taking notes and hopefully I should learn something out of all the outstanding help you are providing me.

 

[KrazyKat]

こんにちは みなさん。
今日の問題はこれです。 たまには「しょうがない」を どう訳すればいいか分かりません。

たとえば：
おじいさんは、怖くてしょうがなかったが、楽しげなお 囃子に合わせて体を動かしているうち、だんだん調子が 出てきました。

この「なになにしてしょうがいない」の句の意味がしっ かり掴めないのでしょう。

よろしくお願いします。

 

[Fuumei]

"Gurin(green: as in a golf area) wa suna(sand) to sekiyu(oil) o katamete tsukurimasu"

I'm curious as to the usage of "tsukurimasu" here. Does this mean "made by hardening"? I see it as "hardens and is made", but that is definitely not the proper way to see it. Does "tsukurimasu" have another usage like "iku"? as in ex: "umai iku" or "susunde iku".

 

[Glenn]

I believe katamete is being used as an adverb here. Sometimes -te forms function that way, like クッキーを焼いて作る.

 

[Elizabeth]

"Gurin(green: as in a golf area) wa suna(sand) to sekiyu(oil) o katamete tsukurimasu"
I'm curious as to the usage of "tsukurimasu" here. Does this mean "made by hardening"? I see it as "hardens and is made", but that is definitely not the proper way to see it. Does "tsukurimasu" have another usage like "iku"? as in ex: "umai iku" or "susunde iku".

Yes, "te" forms can also indicate the means by which an action or operation was executed. Nicely fitting the pattern I'm sure you already know of phrases like 車に乗っていきます。(Go by car) or 建築家によって設計された (designed by an architect) once you stop and consider it. ☝

 

[Elizabeth]

こんにちは みなさん。
今日の問題はこれです。 たまには「しょうがない」をどう訳すればいいか分かりません。
たとえば：
おじいさんは、怖くてしょうがなかったが、楽しげなお囃子に合わせて体を動かしているうち、だんだん調子が出てきました。
この「なになにしてしょうがいない」の句の意味がしっかり掴めないのでしょう。
よろしくお願いします。

この場合、「しょうがない」を Unbearably, to a (nearly) irreversible extent, seemingly inevitable」というような訳が良いかな。「怖くてたまらなかった」と同じような意味とおもいます。それで問題ないでしょう。

 

[Fuumei]

Yes, "te" forms can also indicate the means by which an action or operation was executed. Nicely fitting the pattern I'm sure you already know of phrases like 車に乗っていきます。(Go by car) or 建築家によって設計された (designed by an architect) once you stop and consider it. ☝

That's what I needed to know. Honto ni arigatou gozaimashita! Thanks to you too Glenn!

 

[KrazyKat]

Thanks Elizabeth.

Now for today's problem.
「一昨日の新聞で読んだけど、運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃないか」
（略）
「超過勤務を会社側から命じていたわけではないと、強制していたわけではないといったわけです。特に梶川運転手のほうは、タイムチャートを作る担当者に、自分の乗務を増やしてもらうように頼んでいたという事実があります」
「本当かな （略） 休まないで働きたいと思う人間なんかいるかなあ」
「いえ、 本当です」


Now, from the context it seems that the speaker is trying to say that the company that the driver worked for was at fault, but that sentence seems to say to me that they are saying that the driver was at fault. （A bus drove off a cliff because the driver was overtired) What am I missing?

 

[Elizabeth]

Thanks Elizabeth.
Now for today's problem.
「一昨日の新聞で読んだけど、運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃないか」
（略）
「超過勤務を会社側から命じていたわけではないと、強制していたわけではないといったわけです。特に梶川運転手のほうは、タイムチャートを作る担当者に、自分の乗務を増やしてもらうように頼んでいたという事実があります」
「本当かな （略） 休まないで働きたいと思う人間なんかいるかなあ」
「いえ、 本当です」
Now, from the context it seems that the speaker is trying to say that the company that the driver worked for was at fault, but that sentence seems to say to me that they are saying that the driver was at fault. （A bus drove off a cliff because the driver was overtired) What am I missing?

Unless there is some unwritten context, I would read the first sentence about overtime not being ordered from the company side as saying that the company is not to blame....Whether the 担当者 changed the scheduling doesn't seem to be the fault of the company. ☝

 

[KrazyKat]

Oh sorry, the first sentence is the one I was talking about.
一昨日の新聞で読んだけど、運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃ ないか

The following speaker is a lawyer or someone defending the company. I'm fine with everything after the sentence I just posted there, its just that this one, to me, seems to agree with what the next one says, which doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Elizabeth]

I sounds like that was also probably by the company lawyers, but I don't know for certain so from how I can read of the parts in question, there doesn't seem to be any dispute that the driver was tired. The only issue really is was he forced to take on extra hours (what he is claiming and was in the papers) or simply took on a job without adequate rest. Or, perhaps his own side is trying to contradict any implication of fatigue. :?

 

[KrazyKat]

Ah, so it definitely seems that I have a problem understanding this sentence.
運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃ ないか
They(newspapers) say that it is the driver's own fault that he was driving when overtired, isn't that right?

I don't see how this implies that the company was forcing him to work too much. Which part am I misunderstanding?

 

[undrentide]

Ah, so it definately seems that I have a problem understanding this sentence.
運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃ ないか
They(newspapers) say that it is the driver's own fault that he was driving when overtired, isn't that right?
I don't see how this implies that the company was forcing him to work too much. Which part am I misunderstanding?

It is hinted by the words なんて, which implies the speaker's negative feeling - scorn, distrust, etc.
Together with the words showing cross-examination ないか, one feels that the speaker is trying to say "of course what the papers are saying is wrong".

 

[yukio_michael]

Can someone help me with the phrase 「毎月お世話になっています」
I sort of understand the general meaning, and it seems like a common phrase, but if you could help me in my translation of it's parts, and explain the general idom...

「maigetsu/maitsuki osewa ni natte imasu.」

It's the 'osewa ni natte' ...specifically the "te imasu" form, "osewa ni natte imasu..." that i don't quite follow the exact intended meaning of. Something like, "each month am indebted...".

Thanks! Also, to what words can you simply add "o-" to make them more honorific... I've heard little children use this quite a bit, as I think they're taught more polite forms when they are young.

 

[KrazyKat]

osewani narimashita. Doesn't really translate very well into Englsih. Its kind of like saying thanks for all of the help that you gave me. I recommend just remembering the general intention behind teh phrase and when to use it, than worrying about what the exact meaning is.
making it into nattimasu only means that they are continuing to be recieving help/being indebeted.

I don't have a list of words that you can add o- too, but I can tell you that men use it less, and that Kanji compounds use go instead, of course with all of those exceptions. Maybe someone else can expand.

 

[KrazyKat]

It is hinted by the words なんて, which implies the speaker's negative feeling - scorn, distrust, etc.
Together with the words showing cross-examination ないか, one feels that the speaker is trying to say "of course what the papers are saying is wrong".

Ah, so the actual article in the paper sides with the tranpost company, not the person making those remarks.

However, then there is one more part that I'm not quite sure on. The lawyer defending the company says this:
先日の新聞報道について少し誤解されている意見が出ましたので

So they are saying here that although the article was correct, it is being misunderstood by this person. However if they are disagreeing with the newspaper, isn't that different from misunderstanding. I'm confused. :?

 

[epigene]

Ah, so the actual article in the paper sides with the tranpost company, not the person making those remarks.
However, then there is one more part that I'm not quite sure on. The lawyer defending the company says this:
先日の新聞報道について少し誤解されている意見が出ましたので
So they are saying here that although the article was correct, it is being misunderstood by this person. However if they are disagreeing with the newspaper, isn't that different from misunderstanding. I'm confused. :?

I think the lawyer is just practicing rhetoric, since an open accusation that the driver is at fault may result in the statement being used against the company at court. He probably is saying the article was misleading in that the company is "not necessarily accusing the driver" of the accident.

 

[Elizabeth]

Ah, so it definately seems that I have a problem understanding this sentence.
運転手が過労運転になったのは本人が悪いからだなんていってるそうじゃ ないか
They(newspapers) say that it is the driver's own fault that he was driving when overtired, isn't that right?
I don't see how this implies that the company was forcing him to work too much. Which part am I misunderstanding?

Besides undrentide's keywords like "nante" and "naika," overlooked by me as well , introducing the client as an overworked defendant 過労運転になったのは本人 seems more plausible from the side actually presuming that as an argument. I don't know absolutely, though, it may be legal speak in place of his technical plea that either side would use without an admission of its validity.

 

[KrazyKat]

Thanks so much everyone. I think I'm finally OK with this passage now. Probably.

 

[yukio_michael]

osewani narimashita. Doesn't really translate very well into Englsih. Its kind of like saying thanks for all of the help that you gave me. I recommend just remembering the general intention behind teh phrase and when to use it, than worrying about what the exact meaning is.
making it into nattimasu only means that they are continuing to be recieving help/being indebeted.

Thanks, KK, I suppose I start trying to examine each part when people ask me what the meaning of each word in itsu made mo is... when I realise I only know what the meaning of itsu mo and itsu made mo... is. Yes, I've read too that o-suffix is used more by women and children. Thanks again.

 

[Elizabeth]

Thanks, KK, I suppose I start trying to examine each part when people ask me what the meaning of each word in itsu made mo is... when I realise I only know what the meaning of itsu mo and itsu made mo... is. Yes, I've read too that o-suffix is used more by women and children. Thanks again.

There are less used o- (and go-) prefix words giving women a chance to express their femininity, like "oniku" or "osakana" (??) although most are everyday and unisex for traditionally 'unclean' categories of things (food (gohan, onaka), drink (ocha, osake), money (okane), bathroom (otoire)... ). Others come up for polite use in conversation (oname, oshigoto, ohanashi, odenwa, otenki...I'm still stumbling across new ones...) or refer to the object as belonging to the other person, not the self (ogenki, gotsugou). You'll also gradually learn which of these have become inseperable from the word itself (gohan, onaka, okane, ocha, gozonji) and which are still more or less discretionary.

Finally, as a general rule, Japanese origin nouns and na-adjectives take o-, Chinese origin words go-....of course there are heaps of exceptions even in the short above list...

 

[yukio_michael]

There are less used o- (and go-) prefix words giving women a chance to express their femininity, like "oniku" or "osakana" (??) although most are everyday and unisex for traditionally 'unclean' categories of things (food (gohan, onaka), drink (ocha, osake), money (okane), bathroom (otoire)...

So if I wanted to be brief, and round out the informality of dropping the subject particle, I could say, otoire doko desu ka!?... can you save rough sounding speech w/ a bit of honorifics?

I was at a izakaya w/ my friend's little boy, and he was sick, and said in Japanese, my cough came up... お咳。。。 I don't know what the appropriate words for 'came up' would be... it was cute, and polite.

 

[KrazyKat]

Today's problem:

人が潜在的な力を含めて持てる力を最も発揮できるのは「やりたいことをやる」ことであろう。

I'm especially having a bit of trouble with 力を含めて持てる力を and i'm not sure exactly what the no is in できるのは

 

[undrentide]

人が（潜在的な力を含めて）持てる力を（最も）発揮できるのは
=
「やりたいことをやる」ことであろう。

I used brackets to make the structure clearer.

力を発揮する： to achieve something with one's power (= ability)
持てる力 = 持っている力 the ability one has
潜在的な力を含めて: including the latent ability
できるのは: it's the part of 発揮できる

人が潜在的な力を含めて持てる力を最も発揮できるのは
One is able to achieve (something) with one's all ability including latency
「やりたいことをやる」ことであろう。
in doing what one wants to do.