Motivational issues
- Thread starter cheapshot
- Start date
- 9 Feb 2006
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>>J44xmさん 心に決めて、絶対あきらめないという気持ちがすごく伝わってきます。本当に頑張ってください。僕も英語の勉強をJ44xmさんのように頑張りたいと思います。
>>Glennさん 日本について何か分からない事があれば、何でも訊いてください。あまり大したことはできないかもしれませんが、少しでも力になれたらと思っています。
>>Glennさん 日本について何か分からない事があれば、何でも訊いてください。あまり大したことはできないかもしれませんが、少しでも力になれたらと思っています。
- 17 Sep 2005
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- 1,970
nihon no daigakusei, don't be afraid to try practicing your English here, also!
Kinsao
Horizon Rider
- 8 May 2005
- 8,515
- 143
Interesting thread! (even though I can't read the Japanese parts... XD)
I agree with Elizabeth that it's a balance of different things that make the motivation for me.
There's what you might call the initial motivation, that kicked it off - y'know, the thing that originally made you decide to learn Japanese. In my case, it went something like this:
-- Interested to understand song lyrics.
-- Began to find myself 'learning' inadvertently, in the same way as I started learning English as a child - my brain started by itself to figure out sound meanings, grammer and parts of sentences.
-- Decided to formalise that by getting a book and starting classes.
-- Still going!!! ^^
The motivations that keep me going are:
-- Interest in the 'intellectual' side of learning a language - the 'brain exercise' if you like. Languages - including my native language - have always fascinated me.
-- Being able to see progress.
-- Being able to communicate with someone (I'm actually thinking of a specific person here) in their own language. It makes better social skills, and communication would of course be the main motivator for someone actually living in Japan!
But I think the main motivator for anyone learning, for whatever reason, is being able to see and benefit from your own progress - whether that's being able to hold a more advanced conversation (with your fellow students, tutor, friends or work colleagues), read more kanji, understand a more advanced piece of writing, pick out some words in your favourite manga, recognise a sentence in a song... whatever. If you feel like you're not getting anywhere, it seems like 'what's the point in trying?'
In my case, although I can't read any kanji yet, I get ridiculously childishly pleased when I can understand some katakana words on the back of an eyeshadow pack or on a poster, and when I can understand a word or whole sentence in a song or an interview!
But although my level is low, there's also the hope of things to come that is a big motivator for me - for example, I'm looking forward to learning kanji even though I don't know when I will begin this. To feel there is a lot to learn in the future makes a spur to me, rather than a discouragement. But maybe not everybody's mind works like that................?
I agree with Elizabeth that it's a balance of different things that make the motivation for me.
There's what you might call the initial motivation, that kicked it off - y'know, the thing that originally made you decide to learn Japanese. In my case, it went something like this:
-- Interested to understand song lyrics.
-- Began to find myself 'learning' inadvertently, in the same way as I started learning English as a child - my brain started by itself to figure out sound meanings, grammer and parts of sentences.
-- Decided to formalise that by getting a book and starting classes.
-- Still going!!! ^^
The motivations that keep me going are:
-- Interest in the 'intellectual' side of learning a language - the 'brain exercise' if you like. Languages - including my native language - have always fascinated me.
-- Being able to see progress.
-- Being able to communicate with someone (I'm actually thinking of a specific person here) in their own language. It makes better social skills, and communication would of course be the main motivator for someone actually living in Japan!
But I think the main motivator for anyone learning, for whatever reason, is being able to see and benefit from your own progress - whether that's being able to hold a more advanced conversation (with your fellow students, tutor, friends or work colleagues), read more kanji, understand a more advanced piece of writing, pick out some words in your favourite manga, recognise a sentence in a song... whatever. If you feel like you're not getting anywhere, it seems like 'what's the point in trying?'
In my case, although I can't read any kanji yet, I get ridiculously childishly pleased when I can understand some katakana words on the back of an eyeshadow pack or on a poster, and when I can understand a word or whole sentence in a song or an interview!
But although my level is low, there's also the hope of things to come that is a big motivator for me - for example, I'm looking forward to learning kanji even though I don't know when I will begin this. To feel there is a lot to learn in the future makes a spur to me, rather than a discouragement. But maybe not everybody's mind works like that................?
- 9 Feb 2006
- 12
- 0
Thank you for allowing me to study English here, althogh here is a learnig Japanese board. So,I'll try to write in English.
>>Glennさん I didn't imagin that you told me 訊く is hradly used . I think we normally use 訊く when we want to say a word of きく which means ask. In this situation, we only have two options 訊くand きく（ひらがな）。
There are many kinds of きくsuch as 聴く、聞く、利く、効く. We also sometimes find it difficult to choose which to use.
By the way, it is difficult for a japanese to use {watch, look, see} properly because we have no vocabulary to translate these English words into Japanese except 見る.
>>Glennさん I didn't imagin that you told me 訊く is hradly used . I think we normally use 訊く when we want to say a word of きく which means ask. In this situation, we only have two options 訊くand きく（ひらがな）。
There are many kinds of きくsuch as 聴く、聞く、利く、効く. We also sometimes find it difficult to choose which to use.
By the way, it is difficult for a japanese to use {watch, look, see} properly because we have no vocabulary to translate these English words into Japanese except 見る.
- 9 Feb 2006
- 12
- 0
That's right. You really know a lot about kanji. There is also 観る. In addition to it, 診る,視る, something like that.
In fact, I made a mistake. I converted みるinto kanji unconsciously. I shoud have rwitten みる in hirahgana. It is a bad habitant for the Japanese who often use a computer.
We can change hiragana into kanji with the converting system(変換システム How do you say?） so easily, in spite of knowledge of the meaning of kanji, that many Japanese, including me, has less kanji vocabulary than ever before. When it comes to handwriting, we someｔimes can't rememer kanji we intend to write. So, I may use きく instead of 訊く when I am not using a computer. If I can't find a proper kanji, can I ask you which kanji I should write?（笑）
By the way, there is a test of Japanese in America, isn't it? Do you utilize it to increse your motivation for studing Japanese? I used to take an English test for it when I was in high school.
In fact, I made a mistake. I converted みるinto kanji unconsciously. I shoud have rwitten みる in hirahgana. It is a bad habitant for the Japanese who often use a computer.
We can change hiragana into kanji with the converting system(変換システム How do you say?） so easily, in spite of knowledge of the meaning of kanji, that many Japanese, including me, has less kanji vocabulary than ever before. When it comes to handwriting, we someｔimes can't rememer kanji we intend to write. So, I may use きく instead of 訊く when I am not using a computer. If I can't find a proper kanji, can I ask you which kanji I should write?（笑）
By the way, there is a test of Japanese in America, isn't it? Do you utilize it to increse your motivation for studing Japanese? I used to take an English test for it when I was in high school.
Glenn
一切皆苦
- 8 Jan 2004
- 7,842
- 200
変換システム -- We say "henkan" or "conversion" usually I think.
Hahaha, I'm sure you know more kanji and more about kanji than I do. I've made some pretty horrific 変換ミス in my time.
There's the 日本語能力試験 that's held every year at least once (maybe as many as four times) in various locations throughout the country, but I've never taken it. I declined the opportunity to take 二級 last year because I didn't want to spend the $50, and I figured it isn't that much further to 一級, plus I don't need certification for anything just yet. Of course, having said that, something will come up that I'll need certification for and I won't be able to do anything about it.
Hahaha, I'm sure you know more kanji and more about kanji than I do. I've made some pretty horrific 変換ミス in my time.
There's the 日本語能力試験 that's held every year at least once (maybe as many as four times) in various locations throughout the country, but I've never taken it. I declined the opportunity to take 二級 last year because I didn't want to spend the $50, and I figured it isn't that much further to 一級, plus I don't need certification for anything just yet. Of course, having said that, something will come up that I'll need certification for and I won't be able to do anything about it.
- 9 Feb 2006
- 12
- 0
変換ミス is sometimes really fantastic and makes us laugh. Actually, 変換ミスcontests are held every year in Japan. For example,「今日から海外に住み始めた」→「今日から貝が胃に住み始めた」.Did you see it?
In the near future, I also will be required the certifications such as TOEIC, TOEFL and 英語検定 when I apply for a company. I hope I can make a high score by the time of an employment exam.
In the near future, I also will be required the certifications such as TOEIC, TOEFL and 英語検定 when I apply for a company. I hope I can make a high score by the time of an employment exam.
J C
先輩
- 11 Jan 2006
- 67
- 0
Kanji and Using Computers
nihon no daigakusei raises an interesting point about kanji and using computers. Back in my day (sounding like my Dad now...
, when I was learning Japanese at university, the most difficult thing about kanji was writing it. Reading kanji when it's in context is really easy compared to having to write it correctly.
But now anyone with a computer can happily type in some hiragana and boom - it gives you a list of possible kanji with 変換ミス being the only mistake you can make. I liked that example you gave, nihon no daigakusei - where can I see more? Do Japanese (日本語の） courses nowadays allow computer-written essays, or do they make you write them out by hand? Do you think computers have produced a generation of Japanese (日本語の） students who don't understand stroke-order and have no idea how to write nice characters?
On a related note - I think that one of the biggest short-comings of the 日本語能力試験 is that it is all multi-choice - you don't have to write a single kanji.
nihon no daigakusei raises an interesting point about kanji and using computers. Back in my day (sounding like my Dad now...
, when I was learning Japanese at university, the most difficult thing about kanji was writing it. Reading kanji when it's in context is really easy compared to having to write it correctly.But now anyone with a computer can happily type in some hiragana and boom - it gives you a list of possible kanji with 変換ミス being the only mistake you can make. I liked that example you gave, nihon no daigakusei - where can I see more? Do Japanese (日本語の） courses nowadays allow computer-written essays, or do they make you write them out by hand? Do you think computers have produced a generation of Japanese (日本語の） students who don't understand stroke-order and have no idea how to write nice characters?
On a related note - I think that one of the biggest short-comings of the 日本語能力試験 is that it is all multi-choice - you don't have to write a single kanji.
MeAndroo
先輩
- 29 Jul 2004
- 767
- 16
J C said:
A friend of mine is a schoolteacher in Japan and she repeatedly catches students using their cell phones for kanji DURING TESTS. I'd say since it's so easy to look it up, people don't feel the need to really remember them as much as they had before technology advanced to where it is today. I used to use my cell phone when doing Japanese homework before I figured out I wasn't remembering certain small strokes on kanji.
The Japanese courses I took often asked for both handwritten and typed essays. The handwritten copy would be turned in as a draft, corrected, then the student would retype it for the next day.
godppgo
先輩
- 26 Jan 2006
- 395
- 10
MeAndroo said:
I havne't written anything longer than 5 sentences on a piece of paper for the past 2 years. I say I can only write about 30% of the kanji off the top of my head. The rest 70% I have to check with dictionary first. The scary thing is that the same thing is happening to my English. I forgot how to spell certain words since word processor usually corrects minor spelling mistakes before I even noticed I made a mistake.
Glenn
一切皆苦
- 8 Jan 2004
- 7,842
- 200
nihon no daigakusei said:
Hahahaha
I like that one!
By the way, there is a site that has a bunch of them that I think won a contest. I'll have to see if I can find it: I followed a link to get there. I remember that on the top of the page it said 変漢ミス, with the 漢 written larger, in red and oriented crookedly. Anyway, there were some really good ones there.
About the computer issue: I try to write kanji by hand as much as possible to help myself remember them, and because it's fun.
I have problems with spelling lately too, though, and I'm not quite sure why. I used to have no problems. If I had to guess it would have something to do with the spellcheck on word processors that underlines words that are misspelled (or just not English). It seems I've become too reliant on auto-check. I've started to lose confidence in my spelling, even, and that was something I never really had a problem with.
- 17 Sep 2005
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- 9 Feb 2006
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I'm glad you find 変換ミスinteresting, and Thank you for finding the web site, Mikawa Ossan. I was just going to put it.
Generally, Our skills of kanji is decling because of "conversion" equiped with a computer, cellphone. It is really convenient for us when we have to write a long composition. Some boys/ girls are cheating at kanji quiz in school in Japan. Also in my high school days,when we take a English vocabularly quiz, we are supposed to turn off the celluer phone in case our cheating, but there were some challengers and some were arrested by teachers like MeAndroo's friend（笑）.
But, please don't see all the Japanese students as a cunning ones. We have 漢字検定 and some students are working hard on kanji. In fact, high level kanji or difficult kanji skills are not required today also because of a conversion. 一級 is unbelievable. It requires us so complicated and rarely used kanji that I think there is no need to know. But, I think if the Japanese who has commonsense take 漢字検定, they can get 準二級（pre-２kyuu）or 二級 without studying for it.
By the way, I've heard of Spelling Bee, but I don't know well about it. Have you ever taken it? and, does type writing influence your English spelling ?
Generally, Our skills of kanji is decling because of "conversion" equiped with a computer, cellphone. It is really convenient for us when we have to write a long composition. Some boys/ girls are cheating at kanji quiz in school in Japan. Also in my high school days,when we take a English vocabularly quiz, we are supposed to turn off the celluer phone in case our cheating, but there were some challengers and some were arrested by teachers like MeAndroo's friend（笑）.
But, please don't see all the Japanese students as a cunning ones. We have 漢字検定 and some students are working hard on kanji. In fact, high level kanji or difficult kanji skills are not required today also because of a conversion. 一級 is unbelievable. It requires us so complicated and rarely used kanji that I think there is no need to know. But, I think if the Japanese who has commonsense take 漢字検定, they can get 準二級（pre-２kyuu）or 二級 without studying for it.
By the way, I've heard of Spelling Bee, but I don't know well about it. Have you ever taken it? and, does type writing influence your English spelling ?
Glenn
一切皆苦
- 8 Jan 2004
- 7,842
- 200
I was in a spelling bee when I was in fifth grade, but it was just my middle school and the words weren't all that hard, at least compared to the national competition. Mostly it's for kids, although I think adults could use the practice too.
As per your question of typing influencing spelling:
Yup, that's the one. Thanks for putting the link up. I had forgotten about it.
As per your question of typing influencing spelling:
Glenn said:
Mikawa Ossan said:
Yup, that's the one. Thanks for putting the link up. I had forgotten about it.
- 9 Feb 2006
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Sorry, Glenn. I overlooked the part of sentences.
Sometimes, the convenient things spoil us, but we can't do without them today. でも、英語学習者として、英単語のスペルしっかり頑張りたいと思います～間違えまくりなんで。。。
Sometimes, the convenient things spoil us, but we can't do without them today. でも、英語学習者として、英単語のスペルしっかり頑張りたいと思います～間違えまくりなんで。。。
J C
先輩
- 11 Jan 2006
- 67
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Kanji Mistakes
Thanks for the link. I don't get all of them, but I do like:
寿司屋に行かなかった / 寿司屋に烏賊無かった (烏賊 = いか ＝cuttlefish or squid)
And:
ウチの先生、小山田っていうの / ウチの先生、女形だっていうの
is pretty funny (女形 = おやま＝male actor playing a woman)
I seem to remember a program on TV in Japan devoted to these.
Thanks for the link. I don't get all of them, but I do like:
寿司屋に行かなかった / 寿司屋に烏賊無かった (烏賊 = いか ＝cuttlefish or squid)
And:
ウチの先生、小山田っていうの / ウチの先生、女形だっていうの
is pretty funny (女形 = おやま＝male actor playing a woman)
I seem to remember a program on TV in Japan devoted to these.
J C
先輩
- 11 Jan 2006
- 67
- 0
There was a documentary film called "Spellbound" about spelling bees in America (it seems to be an American phenomenon). I found a link at Amazon Japan for the DVD:nihon no daigakusei said:
Amazon.co.jp | Spellbound [DVD] [Import] DVD・ブルーレイ - Angela Arenivar, Ubaldo Arenivar, Jorge Arenivar, Mr. Scott McGarraugh, Mrs. Lindy McGarraugh, Concepci?n Arenivar, Mrs. Slaughter, Neelima Marupudi, Nupur Lala, Ms. Whitehurst, Parag Lala, Meena Lala, Jeffrey Blitz
Spelling contests weren't a big thing where I went to school, so I can't really comment.
Wow... hah hah that read me like a book, Im reading my Japanese for Dummies book, listening to audio cds, and chillin with some easy language games. I however am making preporations for more hardcore learning, its just taking me a while to get all the materials I need for study.yorkii said:
