Missionaries in Japan

Bramicus said:

I have respect for those who try to spread the "good word" or knowledge of their religion to others, but I also expect them to have respect for my desire not to wish to partake of any such discussion.

Many years ago I had 500 business-size cards printed up. Whenever missionaries come to my door I say, "Thank you, but we are quite happy with our religion," and I hand them a card. This allows me to politely close the door without any objection from the missionaries, who are invariably curious and anxious to read what the card says. And this is what my card says:

"I never told my own religion nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I am satisfied that yours must be an excellent religion to have produced a life of such exemplary virtue and correctness. For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be judged."
- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Mrs. H. Harrison Smith (1816).​

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Jefferson was indeed a wise man!

Never knew that - but will remember it well ! Entirely my own philosophy !

Regards, and thank you Bramicus.

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?

I am going to take this moment to be very, very rude.

tristasusen said:

Its kinda sad how most of you are just bashing people and their religion. You should treat people the way you want to be treated.

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I do. I don't ride around on a bicycle and ask people to give ten percent of their income to my church (business) in the name of God (increased profits).

I myself am a mormon...

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I was raised mormon, and let me tell you, they have one thing in common with the Japanese -- they may be very nice on the outside, but once you're on the inside, it's a whole other ball game. The mind**** I got at the hands of the Mormon church is the sort of thing people file lawsuits over, and I lack the words to describe my glee at getting out of that hell-hole of a religion when I hit 18.

Oh, and for the record, I am (now) an atheistic Jew -- my mother's side of the family is Jewish, and while she converted along to mormonism, the ties still remain. The Orthodox jews aren't so great, but the Reform community has their act together, and there is a surprisingly large number of Jews who don't believe in any sort of supernatural entities whatsoever -- we're just in it for the holidays, and the fact that Reform culture has a lot of respect for intelligence, thrift, skill, and leaving other people the hell alone about religions.

Think about it -- ever seen a Jewish missionary?

Ok, back to topic:

...and let me tell you that missionaries are young people 19-22 years old. They like to hang out with their friends, they have lives just like you. So bashing them is just sad. These are modern day missionaries, They arent killing people, they are just trying to teach and help people. I know missionaries that served a mission in Japan, and they have said that they had a wonderful time. I support the missionaries. They arent doing nothing wrong. They help the community and the people. They arent forcing people to join their religion, People just by their own free will.

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Help the community and people...out of a desire to see those people join up with their religion. How many church-sponsored events or programs, like Deseret, are open to non-Mormons? How is that 'helping people'?

And it's not 'of their own free will'. If you're a Mormon guy, you ARE going on a mission, even if your family has to take loans to pay for it -- the church doesn't cover those expenses. You also aren't supposed to stray too much from the faith, which is why the Mormon church pairs up missionaries -- to make sure that they keep each other in line.

Alot of people dont know about Mormons. Mormons are christians, Mormons believe in the bible and Jesus Christ. Someone said that people should go to Utah and pass out Anti-Mormon pamphlets, well they do. I live by NYC and I see Anti-Mormon pamphlets all the time, Our church always get mail filled with books and stuffs agaisnt mormons.

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Funny, I've never seen anything. Second, 'christianity' isn't a ringing endorsement in my book.

Im a teen too just like you.

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Read: I'm young and naieve.

I like to hang out with my friends. I love to cosplay and I love everything about Japan. I can speak japanese, but whenever someone find out Im a mormon; their view totally change about me. Instead of think of me as a Person, I become a "Super Religious Freak". Instead of calling me by my name, they call me Mormon Boy. Its kinda sad.

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Well, Mormon Boy, that's because the Mormons have done a very good job of proving that they are kooks to just about anyone with a functioning brain. I personally can't stand to spend time with most Mormons, because they never shut up about their religion and its accroutements. No thanks.

I've been in your church. I know what it's like, and I'd rather die than go back, thank you.

Matadon said:

If you're a Mormon guy, you ARE going on a mission, even if your family has to take loans to pay for it -- the church doesn't cover those expenses.

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Is it really true that the families have to pay for the missions? That's bad.

I think you have a very valuable perspective Matadon.

I don't think you were too rude Matadon. Sounds like the Mormon church gave you a good going over. What do your Mormon friends or relatives think of you now you have left the church?
I have heard how bad it can be in in some of these religions. Yours is one of the few personal accounts I have read. Mind you, from what I can gather the Scientologists are one of the worst to get out of once your in.

A bunch of Mormon missionaries once washed my car for free. They didn't try to proselytize; they were "off" that day and just wanted to do a good deed.

I recently had dinner with a Mormon who had been a missionary in Japan and she didn't try to proselytize me.

Also, present-day Mormons don't send out suicide bombers or otherwise slaughter civilians in the name of their religion.

"A bunch of Mormon missionaries once washed my car for free."

--> That is a good thing.

"They didn't try to proselytize; they were "off" that day and just wanted to do a good deed."

--> This sentence has a deep meaning that needs to be looked at. The idea emphasized here is that a Mormon did NOT try to proselytize. The mere fact that the event is being mentioned, that a non-proselytizing Mormon is so unusual, needs to be pointed out. How sad.

"I recently had dinner with a Mormon who had been a missionary in Japan and she didn't try to proselytize me."

--> Same as above. Is it so unusual? Maybe we should reward such behavior? It causes me to visualize keeping hashmarks on a bulletin board that says, "XXX days have passed since this person refused to proselytize."

"Also, present-day Mormons don't send out suicide bombers or otherwise slaughter civilians in the name of their religion."

--> Is this something to be proud of? Something worth mentioning? Perhaps the only way to see Mormons in a good light is to compare them to murderers...?

Do not compare Mormons to bad people, compare them to good people. That is the only test that counts.

Buntaro said:

--> This sentence has a deep meaning that needs to be looked at. The idea emphasized here is that a Mormon did NOT try to proselytize. The mere fact that the event is being mentioned, that a non-proselytizing Mormon is so unusual, needs to be pointed out. How sad.

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Your analysis is flawed. What you say might be true if I had just written what I did out of the blue, and someone may be excused for thinking as you do if they had read what I had written completely out of context. But we know this is not the case. We have just seen a string of anti-Mormon posts which essentially portray all Mormons as religious wackos. In that context, a fair-minded person would understand that I'm saying that not every Mormon is a religious kook. In fact, I was being rather understated about it, and an intelligent person would understand that even more than that, I am strongly implying that Mormons are just people like everyone else. Yes, proselytizing is a part of their religion, which is a pain in the butt for the rest of us, but that's their right, and it's small-minded to berate them for it.

I should say here that I am one of those reformed Jews a previous poster mentioned. I have no use for the Mormon religion for myself, and my personal opinion about its theology and the stories about how Joseph Smith miraculously found the golden plates, etc., is not something I can discuss with a straight face (and I can say the same about some other religions' stories as well), nor would I want to talk about it, out of consideration for any Mormons who might be reading this. But I do understand religious bigotry, and I don't like seeing people being painted with so broad a brush, and berated, because of their religion.

Generally I find Mormons to be normal people, and the only time I've ever been proselytized by them is when they come to my door proselytizing. This is always a bother to me, but as long as they go away when asked (which they do) I'm quite happy to give them the religious freedom to do their proselytizing, in exchange for having the assurance that the rest of us will also have our religious freedom.

What I do think is sad, is how some people seem to have an emotional need to put down people of a different religion -- even to the extent that they will attack anyone else who tries to defend those people.

I should also say that I'm not putting down Metadon for saying what he did. Just as converts are often the most ecstatically positive about their religion, those who left a particular religion can be the most bitter and negative about it. So I'm not criticizing him for having said what he did. But I still think it's right for me to have said what I did as well.

And I think my post above may also help illustrate that Metadon is quite correct in what he said about Reform Jews, i.e., that many of us have "a lot of respect for ... leaving other people the hell alone about religions."

Bramicus,

You said,

"...proselytizing is a part of their religion, which is a pain in the butt for the rest of us, but that's their right, and it's small-minded to berate them for it."

--> I respect other people's religions, and I expect them to respect mine. When someone proselytizes, they are not showing respect. Letting them know I will not tolerate their disrespect is not being small-minded, it is being assertive.

I do not berate Mormons, I assert myself against them. Berating is a form of aggression. It is important to distinguish between assertiveness and aggression. (Many people cannot.) Being aggresive is bad. Being assertive is good. I am always careful to not cross the line between the two. My arguments are always logical, not name-calling. I always follow the Golden Rule when dealing with Mormons, treating them they way I would want to be treated if I was spouting something un-defendable. Feel free to call me small-minded, I will not retaliate.

The key word in this whole discussion is respect. You said,

"...many of us have ... a lot of respect for ... leaving other people the hell alone about religions."

--> Yet you counsel us to stand there, let them be disrespectful to us, and not hold them accountable for their being disrespectful. This we do not undersand.

It is hoped that people like me and people like you can improve our understanding of each other.

WOW. Matadon arent we all grown up now. You may be over 18 but your mind set is that of a 12 year old. You say you left the church, well maybe you just couldnt deal with the responsibility that was given to you. Maybe you were too lazy to get up every sunday to go to church. Maybe you became a drunk or a drug addict, so you had to leave because you didnt want to be ashamed.

You wouldnt spend time with a mormon because they cant shut up about religion, Who is the one yelling and crying and bitching about religion??? You. When I first arrived to this thread, I didnt even touch the subject of religion, I was just wondering why people hated missionary. Now you see, if you had said your opinion like an ADULT, (Buntaro has, and I fully respect his opinion, because he hadnt once tried to offend me) If you would had done the same instead of trying to attack me and writting this long ridiculous diatribe towards me. Then I would have fully respected your opinion, NO, You decided to insult me. and DO I even know you? Have I done anything to harm you? Have I tried to hurt you family? NO, So I see no need to be rude to me. Now because you have been rude to me, I am being terribly rude to you.

To everyone else to tend to say that mormons are all religious kooks. UMMM, I know a word for that. but Im going to site some example and you try to guess the word...

Are all Asian Super Duper Smart?
Are all African American Smelly and Like Chicken?
Are all White Americans Racist?
Are all Latinos Fine Dancers?
Are all Muslims Terrorist?
Are all Jews Rich?
Are all Germans Nazis?
Are all Mormons Crazy Religious Kooks?

Did you find out the word yet? Well, the answer to those questions are all NO because if I had said yes, that would be STEREOTYPING!!! BINGO, thats the word!!...Dont be scared to step outside your safe little box and see a new world around you. You cant judge a WHOLE group because you had a bad experience with one or two people. You cant jugde a WHOLE group because your parents were soooo closed-minded, that they told you all that bullcrap.

Matadon said:

I am going to take this moment to be very, very rude.



I do. I don't ride around on a bicycle and ask people to give ten percent of their income to my church (business) in the name of God (increased profits).



I was raised mormon, and let me tell you, they have one thing in common with the Japanese -- they may be very nice on the outside, but once you're on the inside, it's a whole other ball game. The mind**** I got at the hands of the Mormon church is the sort of thing people file lawsuits over, and I lack the words to describe my glee at getting out of that hell-hole of a religion when I hit 18.

Oh, and for the record, I am (now) an atheistic Jew -- my mother's side of the family is Jewish, and while she converted along to mormonism, the ties still remain. The Orthodox jews aren't so great, but the Reform community has their act together, and there is a surprisingly large number of Jews who don't believe in any sort of supernatural entities whatsoever -- we're just in it for the holidays, and the fact that Reform culture has a lot of respect for intelligence, thrift, skill, and leaving other people the hell alone about religions.

Think about it -- ever seen a Jewish missionary?

Ok, back to topic:



Help the community and people...out of a desire to see those people join up with their religion. How many church-sponsored events or programs, like Deseret, are open to non-Mormons? How is that 'helping people'?

And it's not 'of their own free will'. If you're a Mormon guy, you ARE going on a mission, even if your family has to take loans to pay for it -- the church doesn't cover those expenses. You also aren't supposed to stray too much from the faith, which is why the Mormon church pairs up missionaries -- to make sure that they keep each other in line.



Funny, I've never seen anything. Second, 'christianity' isn't a ringing endorsement in my book.



Read: I'm young and naieve.



Well, Mormon Boy, that's because the Mormons have done a very good job of proving that they are kooks to just about anyone with a functioning brain. I personally can't stand to spend time with most Mormons, because they never shut up about their religion and its accroutements. No thanks.

I've been in your church. I know what it's like, and I'd rather die than go back, thank you.

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i was raised mormon too. i didnt go on a mission, i told my family the leaders of the ward i wasnt. mormon guys do not have to go on a mission. it a choice of free will. some people take teachings way to serious and become extremist but it is the same with any religion. its unfortunate that you had to concentrate all of the idiots that attend this orginization. i myself still believe in many of the teaching but i practice my free will to make "wrong" descision often. just because most people are so close minded on things doesnt mean you have to be aswell towards this church. you are acting the same as them. mormons are encouraged to respect other religions but often it is a hard thing to do because they are so wrapped up on their own. it is a flaw found with many members and the same flaw for those who hate it. people need to respect each others beliefs more and realize we are all here together. some of you need to stop getting so hung up on people talking to you about their religion. if you dont want to hear about it its not hard to say no. sure i ve met missionaries who jump the gun and try to baptize people right away, it happened here to my roomate gord. if you want to learn more, in my personal opinion you should just order a free book of mormon and not talk to the missionaries until you are done. these young men and women dedicate 2 years of their lives to what they believe. deseret industries helps people who are not members of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, matadon you are a misinformed close minded bigot.

tristasusen said:

WOW. Matadon arent we all grown up now. You may be over 18 but your mind set is that of a 12 year old. You say you left the church, well maybe you just couldnt deal with the responsibility that was given to you. Maybe you were too lazy to get up every sunday to go to church. Maybe you became a drunk or a drug addict, so you had to leave because you didnt want to be ashamed.

You wouldnt spend time with a mormon because they cant shut up about religion, Who is the one yelling and crying and bitching about religion??? You. When I first arrived to this thread, I didnt even touch the subject of religion, I was just wondering why people hated missionary. Now you see, if you had said your opinion like an ADULT, (Buntaro has, and I fully respect his opinion, because he hadnt once tried to offend me) If you would had done the same instead of trying to attack me and writting this long ridiculous diatribe towards me. Then I would have fully respected your opinion, NO, You decided to insult me. and DO I even know you? Have I done anything to harm you? Have I tried to hurt you family? NO, So I see no need to be rude to me. Now because you have been rude to me, I am being terribly rude to you.

To everyone else to tend to say that mormons are all religious kooks. UMMM, I know a word for that. but Im going to site some example and you try to guess the word...

Are all Asian Super Duper Smart?
Are all African American Smelly and Like Chicken?
Are all White Americans Racist?
Are all Latinos Fine Dancers?
Are all Muslims Terrorist?
Are all Jews Rich?
Are all Germans Nazis?
Are all Mormons Crazy Religious Kooks?

Did you find out the word yet? Well, the answer to those questions are all NO because if I had said yes, that would be STEREOTYPING!!! BINGO, thats the word!!...Dont be scared to step outside your safe little box and see a new world around you. You cant judge a WHOLE group because you had a bad experience with one or two people. You cant jugde a WHOLE group because your parents were soooo closed-minded, that they told you all that bullcrap.

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your immaturity is a poor arguement for people to respect you as a mormon.

Tsuyoiko said:

Is it really true that the families have to pay for the missions? That's bad.

I think you have a very valuable perspective Matadon.

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sorry to triple post, families dont have to pay for mission, teenagers are encouraged to save if they want to go, but often parents will pay. its the same as parents paying for college and university. some families cant afford to pay for their young buck's mission so the church will pay for it. a thing about 10% of earning going to the church, well all religions have some sort of way to get their believers to pay. ten percent isnt much to ask for, and it works. it helps building costs, the welfare of members of the church, building and establishing new chapels and temples and many more, the mormon church is a rich church, that is true, maybe it is because they have so many members and most learn to handle money well at a young age because of this 10% tithe. it isnt a bad thing. you dont have to pay it ofcourse you are encouraged too, also it is a tax right off so many people have no problem paying 10% because some get it all back at tax time

TwistedMac said:

i just want the missionaries to get smashed by Thor's hammer all-together..

or you know...

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I agree. While were at it we'll get Wodin to use Gungnir to skewer them....

Seriously though... I have never been a fan of big/organized religion since day one. I want to believe that missionaries are only "offering a different point of view" but find their hard sell tactics... deplorable.

I come from a culturally and religiously diverse family. My family's heritage is Scandanavian and our spouses consist of a Hebrew, a Spainiard, a Scottsman and a Japanese. Religions vary, we have Protestant, Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Buhddist and me the pagan... Extended families are Mormons on my mother's side and Jehova's witnesses on my wife's side. Family events and holidays are always fun... (rolling my eyes)

Persoanlly, I've found organized western religions to be oppresive and controling, but I do find prayer liberating. I've done my best to study the religions I've been exposed to. I have also picked and chose what I like about various ones there by melding my own personal faith. It has worked well for me so far. I find that I am still a good person and a bit of a religious/spiritual loner, which is fine by me as I believe religion/spirituality is a very personal issue that should not be forced onto others. Share it if asked, but don't force it.

My expirences at home and abroad with missionaries have not been overly positive. I've only met one missionary who was very laid back and let the currious come to him. I found him to be one of the most interesting people I have met. He spoke about his expiriences provided in connection with the church, but didn't force the sell of his religion. Very cool... He was LDS.

In Japan I was once approached by an attractive caucasian girl, German I think, she started out by asking me a few surface questions to soften me and then moved in for the "want to join our prayer group on Wednesday" kill. Luckily I was able to side-step and pull my Chinese-American brother-in-law into the line of fire. He is a bit of a religious nut who is two sandwiches shy of a complete picnic. She asked if he knew about Luke, he got so excited... his name is Luke, and passages of Luke are his favorite. He ended up talking to her for 30 minutes. I think she was a little dissapointed that she missed her original target.

From that point on when someone, non-Japanese, asks me if I speak English I adopt a Germanic/Russian accent and speak broken English saying no not much and do my best to wait for the religious sell and make my escape. I don't want the headache or to waste my, or their, time. I am literate, and, if currious, will study their religion and ask questions when ready.

lol a thread about Missionaries, I hate Missionaries and religion. I'm not at all religious and proud of that fact, probably the way most religious people are proud of the fact they are. But one of the best looking things about Japanese culture is that their not very religious, except for budisum and shinto. But budisum is pretty much the only religion that does not seem to impose its self on other people, but I guess I have religious friends so I should not ***** too much. But I just hate the way Missionaries go to other countries and try and covert people, especialy when they dont have any idear about the people and culture. I think South Park demonstrated this pretty well!

duff_o_josh said:

families dont have to pay for mission, teenagers are encouraged to save if they want to go, but often parents will pay. its the same as parents paying for college and university.

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I disagree. When parents pay for university it is to benefit the teenager first, society second. Paying for a mission is to benefit the church first, the teenager second. It is more like expecting a parent to pay for their teenagers national service.

:sorry:

for lds members a mission is a development stage into adulthood. again they do not have to go! its a choice and people make choices for themselves. its not a cult people have minds of their owns and not just any mormon kid can go on a mission. its a strict and tribulating process. here is a thought, why would the church want more members? please answer it then i can move onto my next question.

lvl 426, one of the beliefs of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints is that jesus visited more then just "europe" and "the america's"(one of the parts of the book of mormon) after his ressurection. It is thought that he went all over the world. missionaries who go to other countries study and while they are in the country learn about its people and culture. its more then i can say for you and your jump on the boat interest for japan.

There are a lot of long replies in this thread, so I'm going to make brief, general statements in the interests of brevity.

One: I am quite aware that not all Mormons are robots, but stop and think for a second about every 'positive' Mormon encounter -- why did you even know they were Mormon? Few people, bascially only my close friends, know what my religion is, because they don't need to.

Two: If you're going to disagree with me, that's fine, but refute my points rather than calling me immature or changing the subject. I suggest taking a debate class and learning how to argue.

Three: I have a general dislike of ANY organized religion. I prefer people who think for themselves, thank you. I've no problem letting people believe in whatever the hell they want to, of course, and this means that they can get together in groups and believe in all sorts of nonsense, but the second they start knocking on my door is the second I start having problems.

Four: I don't know one Mormon male over the age of twenty-two who hasn't been on a mission. Not one. To answer your question as to why the church wants more members, I have two words: 'Money' and 'Power'. The more members in the Church, the more money and power the Church has. Simple enough.

Five: Since I left the church, there has always been a 'gentle' pressure to confirm and go back; people always mentioning that 'we haven't seen you at church...'; keep in mind that I haven't been to church for about eight years. I bascially can't have mormon friends without getting the quasi-lecture of "Well, I don't need to drink/smoke/have sex to have fun...", and it only gets worse when they find out I used to be 'one of the flock'.

In regards to bitterness, ask yourself why people who leave certain religions tend to be very bitter about their experiences? I don't know a lot of bitter ex-catholics, bitter ex-jews, or bitter ex-discordians. I do know a ton of very pissed-off ex-Mormons, ex-JWs, and ex-Scientologists. Perhaps they have good reason to be angry, whereas the others do not?

its more then i can say for you and your jump on the boat interest for japan.

Calm down mate, just stateing what I feel! No need for personal attacks, especialy as you dont even know me

Anyway I personaly happen to belive that Religion causes more problems than it solves, think of all the wars that haven been fought and still are. But thats just my opinion, but then again I dont think the UK is as religious as America and some other countries.

Yo, Matadon. You hit the nail on the head, thats basically the way I feel. And what really anoys me is people saying people like me are ignorant, but because I choose not to belive in their ideology. But I cant coment on mormons as I have never seen or met any, any how just though I'd add that

Buntaro said:

It is hoped that people like me and people like you can improve our understanding of each other.

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Agreed.

lv426 said:

Budisum [Buddhism?] is pretty much the only religion that does not seem to impose its self on other people.

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Judaism too.

I have been reading with interest the "discussion" that is going on here. It seems that there are two groups of people, one group of people like Tristsusen, the other a group of people like Matadon. I call the two groups the Devotional people and the Non-Devotional people.

There is a lot of non-communication (even downright hostility) between the two groups. It is hoped that all of us can work together, to increase the communication understanding, and tolerance between the two groups.

Tristasusen has said that the people of the Non-Devotional type (of which I am a proud member) see Mormons as religious kooks. That is not the core issue. The issue is that Mormons are proselytizers. It seems to us that every Mormon is expected (required?) to proselytize. (Is such a requirement, in fact, the Mormon policy...?)

Now to make a point: We (the Non-Devotional types) are offended by the act of proselytizing. And, Mormons think that proselytizing is a perfectly acceptable behavior, even officially encouraged. We are agast at such an idea.

I undestand where the Devotional-type people (like Tristsusen) are coming from. They think that I will burn is Hell for all of eternity unless I do exactly what they say (I do not think that will happen. As a matter of fact, I think I will get to Heaven before they do, but that is another topic for another day.) And, I understand where the Non-devotional people (like Matadon) are coming from. They (myself included) are offended by the Devotional-type, and in some cases, have suffered abuse. They are hostile towards the Devotional types, and, to some extent, I think the hostility is justified.

My purpose here is to increase the communication between the two groups. If the Devotional-types would hold off on the proselytizing, it would help immensely. But that is against their very beliefs, isn't it?

I would be interested in hearing from both sides, how we can improve communication. I, myself, am committed to working towards that goal. What ideas do people out there have?

Matadon,

You said,

"I have a general dislike of ANY organized religion. I prefer people who think for themselves, thank you."

--> The logic in your statement is that every organized religion in the world is composed of people who cannot think for themselves. I disagree. In fact, there are religions out there that *require* their members to examine their beliefs and be open-minded.

People who are religious go through stages. The first stage is being devotional, with a strong emotional attachment. Unfortunately, this can lead to dogmatic-thinking and closed-mindedness.

A person may then move to the next stage, which is to be agnostic. It is the natural reaction to the dogmatic-thinking and closed-mindedness mentioned above.

After that is moving to the stage of examining and inquiring. This is characterized by having religious beliefs, but only beliefs that can hold up under the test of constant questioning and asking "What if....?" For the small number of people who a lucky enough to get to this stage, religion can be a powerful thing indeed.

Do not give up on religion just yet. You would be surprised what is out there, if you (and the rest of us) can just get through the hoardes of religions that require their members to be close-minded.

lv426,

You said,

"... what really anoys me is people saying people like me are ignorant...."

--> I understand exactly what you are saying. The natural reaction, then, is for us to respond to hostility with hostility. Please try to avoid that. I found that being assertive, stating my ideas clearly and directly are *much* more effective than retaliating.

Although I was not able to do it before, I can stand my own with any proselytizer. Now, I never need to get angry anymore, while talking to fundies. And, when I have these discussions, I always come out smelling like a rose. It is actually fun.

matadon i guess it cant be helped that your trapaped in such a bubble. i do not practice the beliefs of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints anymore, and i havent for a long time but i still respect it. What kind of power can the mormon church have with money? buying land, building churches is that a bad thing?
as for lvl426 you assumed that missionaries are not aware of the culture they are in. there needs to be more educated cons on this subject because what most of you are spouting is just personal opinions which in turn are a little predjudice.

As a religion-hating shithead, I'd like to say that it'd be good if missionaries became extinct. I'm sure the japanese housewives, and lonely people in Japan love the company, but in USA..it really has become troublesome. Would you like some freak trying to recruit you into his/her religion? Would you like being told what you believe is false, and that their way is the path to salvation, heaven, and etc?