Locative Inversion in English

[ksksk090]

Hi!

I'm a Japanese university student, working on my graduation thesis.
I'm studying locative inversion with modal auxiliary verb, such as (1-3).
(locative inversion consists of <locative phraseﾂ＋verbﾂ＋subject>,and
its derivative <ingﾂ＋locative phraseﾂ＋beﾂ＋subject>, by 'my' definition. )

(1)Sitting on the stump {will/ may/ can/ should/ must} be a great big toad.

(2)In the caves {will/ may/ can} hide a fierce lion.
(3)Down the hill {will/ may/ can} roll the baby carriage.

Are these sentences acceptable?
If you think acceptable,
which modal aux will be a top, and which will be a low? Please grade!
If you think unacceptable, what contexts are required to make these sentences acceptable?
(As for (2) and (3), a sperker or writer who states (2) guesses a present situation,
and a speaker in (3) guesses a future situation.)

I have a poor intuition to English, so would you be my informants?
Of cource, I don't mind your answering my questions according to your feeling!

 

[Half-n-Half]

As a native speaker most of those phrases aren't common in everyday conversation. You would see something like those more often in a novel or book. You might also hear them in some sort of narration. However, I am no expert on these. I can offer what I think are the most natural selections, though.

(1)Sitting on the stump {will/may/should} be a great big toad.
Using "can" just seems awkward and "may" works just as well. I'm not too sure about "must." It seems kind of awkward, but again I'm no expert.

To make "can" acceptable I would modify the sentence to say, "There can be a great big toad sitting on the stump," although that would eliminate the inversion. Same thing for "must."

(2)I think for this sentence it would be best to arrange it as, "In the caves a fierce lion {will/may/can} hide." That way you still have the inversion and it sounds more natural. If, like you said, they are guessing a present situation in this sentence, the word "will" implies that they know and there is no guessing.

(3) All three sound OK, but again it is not something I would really use in everyday speech. This sentence just seems more natural to leave it without the inversion. The same thing goes here for the guessing part as in number 2.

 

[ksksk090]

>>Half-n-Half

Thank you very much for your responce!
And your explanation is very easy to understand for me.

 

[ksksk090]

My first question is a little bit difficult to answer...
I'm sorry.

This is easier to answer!
Please tell me your opinion.

ﾂ?ｨ
(1) A: Look, what do you think is on that stump?
B: Sitting on the stump may be a great big toad,
but let me check closely if it is a toad or not.
('may' means 'speculation or guess.' Speaker B just guesses there is a toad.)

(2) A: Let's take a rest on that stump.
B: Sitting on the stump may be a great big toad,
but I'll remove it from the stump for our room.
('may' means 'admission.' Speaker B admit there is a toad, so there IS a toad.)

Which do you think is more acceptable, (1) or (2), diagonal sentences?

 

[clevercolin]

1) A: Look, what do you think is on that stump?
B: Sitting on the stump may be a great big toad,
but let me check closely if it is a toad or not.
('may' means 'speculation or guess.' Speaker B just guesses there is a toad.)
(2) A: Let's take a rest on that stump.
B: Sitting on the stump may be a great big toad,
but I'll remove it from the stump for our room.
('may' means 'admission.' Speaker B admit there is a toad, so there IS a toad.)
Which do you think is more acceptable, (1) or (2), diagonal sentences?

You can use the word "may" either way.

(1)

Colin asked, "What is that on the stump?"
"I don't know," replied Ksksk, "It looks like it may be a great big toad, but let's look closer."

"May" means that Ksksk does not know for sure if it is a Toad, but that he suspects that it is. Thus, it is speculative, as you said.

(2)

"I want to rest on that stump, but there is a big toad on it," said Colin.
"Don't worry," replied Tsktsk, "while there may be a big toad on the stump, I am not afraid to move it."

This time, as you pointed out, Tsktsk already knows there is a toad on the stump. Thus, it is affirmative.

Both uses are correct! Another use would be to ask for permission:

(3)

"May I move the Toad?" Kskksk asked.
"Yes, you may," said Colin.

Of the two examples you created, I liked your first better, because "may" was less ambiguous. In the second example, it could have been that he was speculating or affirming.

 

[foreevermore]

I think it depends what you mean by acceptable.
I would say "no" generally to all three examples, with the exception of "must" and "should" in number one.
In cases of poetry, song, or if you were trying to be especially cryptic...or acting like Yoda or the Riddler, then these sentences would technically be grammatically correct.
However, in normal speech they would sound awkward and unnatural.
The exception would be:
Sitting on the stump MUST be a great big toad.
In certain cases the verb-noun inversion could be used to emphasize semantic differences between possible sentences.
Compare possible meanings for the change in word order:
"A great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
Possibility #1: It must be the case that a great big toad is sitting on the stump.
True(a great big toad is sitting on the stump).
"I think I see a great big toad sitting on the stump. I wonder if I am seeing it correctly." "Yes, a great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
Possibility #2: Concerning a great big toad's activities, it must be sitting on the stump.
A great big toad + True(is sitting on the stump)
or
constant (a great big toad) + variable(is sitting on the stump)
Example: "I wonder whether a great big toad would be swimming or sitting on the stump." "A great big toad must be sitting on the stump. It is too cold in the water."
Possibility #3: Of the many animals that can sit on the stump, it must be a great big toad.
True(a great big toad) + sitting on the stump
or
Variable(a great big toad) + constant(sitting on the stump).
Example: "Which animal is sitting on the stump at the tea party? A great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
Possibility #4: It must be the case be that a great big toad is sitting on the stump.
It is necessary that (a great big toad is sitting on the stump.)
Example, "In order to take the same photograph, a great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
Possibility #5: Of the animals that could sit on the stump, it must be a great big toad.
(A great big toad) is necessary for sitting on the stump.
Example, "If you want the top to look green, a great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
Possibility #6: Of the many things a toad can do, it must be sitting on the stump.
Is is necessary (to be sitting on the stump) for a great big toad.
Example, "In order to see how its legs bend, a great big toad must be sitting on the stump."
(six possibilities)
versus
"Sitting on the stump must be a great big toad."
Possibility #1: Of the animals that might be sitting on the stump, it must be a great big toad.
Sitting on the stump +true(a great big toad)
or
Constant (sitting on the stump)+variable(a great big toad)
Example: "There's something on the stump." "Sitting on the stump must be a great big toad."
Possibility #2: If something is going to be sitting on the stump, it must be a great big toad.
Sitting on the stump + necessary(a great big toad)
Example: "There are three stumps. How do I know which stump the path is next to?" "Sitting on the stump must be a great big toad."
(Two possibilities)
Note how the first way (with normal word order) can be interpreted more ways than the second.
Usually these semantic differences would be noted by intonation, with emphasis on certain words, but occasionally (such as in the case of a book, where the speaker does not have that ability) one might specify with the inverted word order.
"Sitting on the stump should be a great big toad" is acceptable, because in some cases speakers will repeat/state the given/constant of a sentence while thinking up the variable. It is sort of like buying time by saying "uh..."
The only other cases I can think of would be in sentences beginning with "there" :
There may be a chance that I won't go to the party.
There can be many people in one car at the same time.
There should be a door.
I think that this is not the same case, though, as use of "there" is more idiomatic...
For example, "a door should be there" does not equal "there should be a door."
in the first sentence, the speaker is indicating the location of a door.
In the second sentence, the speaker is indicating the existence of a door.
Does that help?