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Learning Japanese through Translation

Would I be right in the way I've separated the text as two different sentences?
ゆうふくなものたち すむ街
駅の近くにいる きん色のものに
せいいを 見ている (。) オタシが 見えます。
I'd tempted to parse after 見せている here as well but that'd make three sentences then, not two regarding:
Those are two sentences (the first line is just a noun clause, not a complete sentence, though), as jt_-san wrote.
 
No. The second and third lines are a single sentence.
駅の近くにいる modifies きん色のもの.
駅の近くにいるきん色のものにせいいを見せている modifies オシ.
(You are repeatedly using the misreading.)

Remember かいだんをのぼった先にあるトビラの近くにはられている紙.
 
I wasn't misreading it, I was just copy/pasting my old message, I fixed the wrong transcription in a previous message.
What is the meaning of 「オヌシ」here? The only I could find is a katakana transcription of おぬし, the pronoun.
 
Well, it's interesting to be aware of it I'd say.
It's interesting for me and that's why I'm following this. Even though you are at a very basic level, Toritoribe-san's explanations are often at a very advanced level so I often learn something interesting. Often I don't retain the information because the parts of speech/grammar nitty gritty aren't really that important for day to day speaking but it's still interesting. For most beginning speakers, I think it's best get exposed to a bunch of examples and learn representative examples for grammar points. The linguistic details can get in the way. But you're still young. If you can retain this info and use it, more power to you.

How can I better determine the beginning/end of sentences if I can't count on punctuation?
By learning the grammar rules. When it's ambiguous, read the sentence one or more ways and pick the one that makes the most sense from the context.
In this example,
ゆうふくなものたちが すむ街駅の近くにいる
This is grammatical but it doesn't make sense because 街駅 is not a word and even if it were a word, it doesn't really make sense that wealthy people would live in the "town station."
I found this confusing because ゆうふくなものたちが すむ街 is not a complete sentence.
(which is obvious because you can't end a sentence with a noun.) That's another reason why it's good to start with materials that are made for learning Japanese -- it will typically be correct with no typos or deliberate deviations from standard grammar.
 
I wasn't misreading it, I was just copy/pasting my old message, I fixed the wrong transcription in a previous message.
What is the meaning of 「オヌシ」here? The only I could find is a katakana transcription of おぬし, the pronoun.
Sounds like it's something within the game. A made up name or object.
When you get to that scene what is showing the せいい?
 
Would I be right in the way I've separated the text as two different sentences?
ゆうふくなものたち すむ街
駅の近くにいる きん色のものに
せいいを 見ている (。) オタシが 見えます。
Toritoribeさん has also alluded to this, but no, this is not correct. I believe I've already addressed this, but the correct way to break it down is:
[ゆうふくなものたちがすむ]街。(sentence fragment)
[[(その)駅の近くにいるきん色のもの]に誠意を見せている]オヌシが見えます。

「ゆうふくなものたちがすむ」 modifies 街, forming a fragment after which the thought breaks once.
「駅の近くにいる」 modifies 金のもの, which is marked as the indirect object (に) of 誠意を見せている. This in turn is modifying オヌシ, and the core of the sentence is オヌシが見えます, where オヌシ is modified by everything that comes before it (again, as Toritoribeさん said).

The meaning of オヌシ here isn't immediately evident, but one possibility is that it's a polite second-person pronoun meaning "you" (i.e. the player, or the protagonist--Mario?)
誠意を見せる is also a bit of a vague expression, so I'd need to have more context to interpret it specifically, but it means to display one's sincerity (in some form or another).
Mind you, this whole sentence comes off as sort of intentionally vague "fortune-teller" type speak, which together with the nonstandard notation makes it perhaps (as mdchachiさん says) less than ideal as learning material.

"A town (or "the town") where wealthy people reside. (There,) I can see you(?) giving a display of sincerity to the golden one near the station."

This seems to be the import here, indirectly directing the player to go to a certain place and perform a certain action. There might be another way to interpret オヌシ, but going into more specific interpretations would require further context.
 
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I keep coming back to this thread. It's better than crack!
(Just kidding...stay away from illegal substances, kids. This message brought to you by the Anti-Drug Administration.)

Zizka said:
How can I better determine the beginning/end of sentences if I can't count on punctuation?
By learning the grammar rules. When it's ambiguous, read the sentence one or more ways and pick the one that makes the most sense from the context.

I'd like to touch also upon this by providing a concrete illustration of what mdchachiさん is talking about.
Imagine a video game in English that only used capital letters and no punctuation, either for stylistic reasons and/or because of system limitations.

A TOWN WHERE THE AFFLUENT RESIDE
I SEE YOU SHOWING YOUR SINCERITY
TO THE GOLDEN ONE BY THE STATION


Any native (or proficient) speaker of English will be almost immediately be able to parse this correctly, as they will identify the first line as a standalone thought (despite it just being a noun clause), and the second two as a single complete sentence.

"A town where the affluent reside I see you showing." (for example) would make no sense as a single thought, and even if you could force an interpretation like "A town where the affluent reside, I see." into a single sentence, "You showing your sincerity to the golden one by the station." does not form a coherent thought on its own. In any event, the interpretation above is what 99% of native speakers or proficient readers are going to hit upon almost immediately. Even if they don't know linguistic terms like "restricting modifying clause", there will be no doubt in their mind how the words are being put together.

Japanese sentence structure might seem random to you at the moment, but that's because you haven't yet internalized the countless grammatical rules that make the connections between words and phrases clear. That is going to be the ultimate goal if you really want to be a proficient reader. (Though I agree with mdchachiさん and Toritoribeさん when they say that using materials with more standard orthography would probably be better for you at this stage of your studies. Not many native Japanese materials are written the way this game is.)
 
Ok well I think it's been pretty much translated now and it's apparently not good learning material so I'll switch to another one:
TxVNHzJ.png

「やみのきゅうでんの中よ
一見 なにも なさそうだけど
この部屋には ヒミツが あるそうね」
''We're inside the palace of darkness.
At a glance there seems to be nothing however
there seems to be a secret in this room''

*
やみ:普通名詞:darkness
の:助詞:noun connector
きゅうでん:普通名詞:palace, also written 宮殿.
の:助詞:noun connector
中:普通名詞:inside, also written なか.
よ:助詞:transforms the sentence into an exclamation
一見:普通名詞:meaning ''at a glance''
なにも:副詞:last time we discussed this, I was told that in order to mean ''nothing'' なにも had to be used in conjunction with the negative form of a verb. I've translated it as nothing and I know it's probably wrong but I can't see how else to interpret that word.
なさそう:形容動詞: doesn't seem, unlikely...
だけど:接続詞:however
この:連体詞:this
部屋:普通名詞:room
には:double particle: ''in regards to''
ヒミツ: katakana transcription of ひみつ, ''secret''
が:助詞:indicates the existence of something in the sense of ''there is''
ある:五段:to exist for inanimate objects
そう:副詞:seeming
ね:助詞:elicit an agreement with the party addressed
*
Here's my question for now. Could you tell me how many sentences there are in that excerpt? I'll then try to separate it on my own. Just that for now please.
 
This one will be a confidence builder for you, as you pretty much nailed it.

The only transcription error I noticed was with a single hiragana character near the end, but it didn't affect your understanding of the content.

Could you tell me how many sentences there are in that excerpt?

Two. There is another hint you can use to determine sentence breakdown, and it works on this image and the previous one. Look for line breaks that leave lots of blank space behind.

なにも:副詞:last time we discussed this, I was told that in order to mean ''nothing'' なにも had to be used in conjunction with the negative form of a verb. I've translated it as nothing and I know it's probably wrong but I can't see how else to interpret that word.

You did it right. There IS a negative form in there (of an adjective, actually); it's just expressed in a form you are not familiar with. Take another look at なさそう. Rather than just translate it, make sure you understand the inflection that is going on there.

には:double particle: ''in regards to''
In this case, I think it is better to think of this as two separate particles, than as a set-phrase double particle.

(Edited.)
 
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Great thanks, I'll work on this again tomorrow morning then. Quick question before going to bed:

I'm pretty much done with this game now, I'm at the end. I don't really want to push myself to finish it just for the sake of it. I really missed the kanji in this one.
*Anyways, any suggestions on what I should read next? Preferably with Kanji this time so I can progress on that too.
*Should I go for a game with furigana how do you think it'd be detrimental to my learning?
*Did you guys read things when you were starting which you thought were interesting?
 
誠意を見せている
How did you decide that せいい means 誠意 ? I was thinking it is probably 勢威 as it seems like something you'd encounter in a video game.
Two. There is another hint you can use to determine sentence breakdown, and it works on this image and the previous one. Look for line breaks that leave lots of blank space behind.
Wouldn't it be one incomplete sentence plus one more? ...中よ is not grammatical. Or one incomplete sentence plus two sentences held together by the conjunction BUT.
 
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Of course I can't be 100% certain without context, but that's the first thing that came to mind and I'm fairly confident about it because 誠意を見せる is a common idiomatic phrase, whereas 勢威を見せる isn't so much. (I just double-checked for good measure, and sure enough, if you search for the latter on Japanese-language Google, it assumes you meant the former.)

Zizkaさん, I'll come back and answer your questions about recommended reading material and the like when I have a bit more time.
 
Wouldn't it be one incomplete sentence plus one more? ...中よ is not grammatical. Or one incomplete sentence plus two sentences held together by the conjunction BUT.
Whoops, just realized I didn't address this. Unlike the previous example ending with 街, 「やみのきゅうでんの中よ」 still functions as a complete sentence. It's 「(〇〇は)やみのきゅうでんの中(だ)よ」 with the topic omitted and the copula dropped as a characteristic of feminine speech (just like ありそうね in the same text box would be ありそうだね in non-feminine speech).

An example (just making the leading question up for illustrative purposes, it's not actually from the game):

A: お宝はどこにあるの?
So where's the treasure?
B: やみのきゅうでんの中よ
(It's) in the Palace of Darkness.

It's casual, feminine speech but not ungrammatical, and not a sentence fragment.

(note: edited for clarity)
 
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Of course I can't be 100% certain without context, but that's the first thing that came to mind and I'm fairly confident about it because 誠意を見せる is a common idiomatic phrase, whereas 勢威を見せる isn't so much. (I just double-checked for good measure, and sure enough, if you search for the latter on Japanese-language Google, it assumes you meant the former.)
For what it's worth I found this word in a game context. Knight of Influence, Ornas | Cardfight!! Vanguard Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia
But not the phrase.

Whoops, just realized I didn't address this. Unlike the previous example ending with 街, 「やみのきゅうでんの中よ」 still functions as a complete sentence. It's 「(〇〇は)やみのきゅうでんの中(だ)よ」 with the topic omitted and the copula dropped as a characteristic of feminine speech (just like ありそうね in the same text box would be ありそうだね in non-feminine speech).

An example (just making the leading question up for illustrative purposes, it's not actually from the game):

A: お宝はどこにあるの?
So where's the treasure?
B: やみのきゅうでんの中よ
(It's) in the Palace of Darkness.

It's casual, feminine speech but not ungrammatical, and not a sentence fragment.

(note: edited for clarity)
Makes sense. I have the same understanding except I was under the impression that it was not grammatically correct strictly speaking.
 
So the character I misread was 「る」 instead of 「り」.
As for the two sentences, I just realized something beyond the line spacing. If 「よ」is a sentence ending particle, then I can safely conclude that the two sentences are:
「やみのきゅうでんの中よ
一見 なにも なさそうだけど
この部屋には ヒミツが あそうね」
You did it right. There IS a negative form in there (of an adjective, actually); it's just expressed in a form you are not familiar with. Take another look at なさそう. Rather than just translate it, make sure you understand the inflection that is going on there.
なさそう:形容動詞: doesn't seem, unlikely...
Well, when I was looking up its meaning, I thought that this count as a negative but it wasn't a verb so I wasn't sure if it would count.
On another one, here's something else which I do about as much as translating (rote writing vocabulary and kanji). I have a notebook filled with this (I've used a link because the image was too big):
 
So I've decided to go back to DQVIII. It's definitely harder than Paper Mario as it's aimed at an older audience. This being said, it has kanji which is a definitely a positive. So this is basically the dialogue that came after the whole いっぱい dialogue.
gexgooV.png

なんだと!?
わしの占いが あたらないだと?!
あほうか お前は?!
*
"What?! My predictions are incorrect you say? Are you some kind of idiot?"
なん:「感動詞」essentially 「何」, "what"
だ:「指定詞」copula
と:「助詞」:quotation particle
わし: 「代名詞」: pronoun, used by elderly male
の:「助詞」:possessive
占い:「普通名詞」:fortune telling
が:「助詞」subject indicator
当たらない:「五段」: to be accurate, inf. negative form.
だ:「指定詞」copula
と:「助詞」:quotation particle
あほう:「普通名詞」:idiot
か:「助詞」implied sense of doubt, uncertainty
お前:「代名詞」you
は:「助詞」topic indicator
 
I'm feeling fairly confident about the previous one so here's another one:
lvmrA88.png

もともと 占いなど
当たらなくて 当たり前なのだ。
もし もしもだ…
*
もともと:「副詞」"originally"
占い:「普通名詞」fortune-telling
など:「助詞」"and the like"
当たらなくて:*I want to check a couple of things about this then I'll try my hand at translating it.
当たり前:「形容動詞」"obvious"
なの:[colloquialism] used to make an assertion
だ:「指定詞」copula
もし:「副詞」"if"
もしも:「副詞」"if", in the case that
だ:「助詞」copula
EDIT: Could I get a subtle hint regarding 当たらなくて please.
 
On another one, here's something else which I do about as much as translating (rote writing vocabulary and kanji). I have a notebook filled with this (I've used a link because the image was too big):

Nice job.

I have a few comments about things I noticed:

- I don't think it is a good idea to put a gloss (furigana) of 「か」on the 勝 character when it appears by itself. This character can be read as 「か」, but only when it is used in certain words, most notably かつ ( 勝つ ) or its inflected forms. If you were to ever encounter this character by itself as a standalone word (i.e., not as part of a compound word or a word containing okurigana), the appropriate reading would almost certainly be ショウ: the character on reading. Kun readings, such as 「か」 in this case, should be learned together with the words that use them, in my opinion.

- Similarly, when you write the kanji 逃 next to 「にげる」, you should write it together with the appropriate okurigana: 逃げる.

- The word meaning "concerning; about" is better thought of as being について, rather than just ついて, I think. This is how you will see it being used.

- It looks like you wrote the reading of 世話 as せれ, instead of せわ, which is correct. This appears in two places.
 
なさそう:形容動詞: doesn't seem, unlikely...
Well, when I was looking up its meaning, I thought that this count as a negative but it wasn't a verb so I wasn't sure if it would count.
Look up explanations for how the existence verb works. ある・(では)ない
And then look up conjugation of adjectives. おいしい・おいしくない etc.
And then look up how the adjective+そう pattern works.
おいしい・おいしそう・おいしくない・おいしくなさそう
 
Thanks!
One mistake I've done when learning kanji is to recognize them as opposed to know their オン and くん readings. I can fairly easily memorize the kanji as in I can recognize it quickly through its radicals and remember the general meaning of each individual kanji.
Memorizing the different readings is definitely harder. I find that learning the readings as part of words as opposed to individual kanji is more useful and effective in remembering them.
In other words, I know about 500 kanji but I'd say I know the readings of about 10% of them unfortunately.
 
EDIT: Could I get a subtle hint regarding 当たらなくて please.
あたる→あたらない→あたらなくて
hit → not hit → not hit て-form
(hit as in hit a target but this case it means hit as in be correct. Like hitting the lottery.)
 
Ahh ok so it was just the negative of the ーて form after all.
Am I right about the rest before I translate?
 
Well, I'll assume they accurate.
もともと 占いなど
当たらなくて 当たり前なのだ。
もし もしもだ…
*
I'm thinking 「当たる」is a punctual verb here. And yet I'm not sure it matters it the ーて form isn't used in combination with 「ある/いる」. So the only meaning of ーて left would be to link sentences? In that case, why the negative?
 
Ahh ok so it was just the negative of the ーて form after all.
Am I right about the rest before I translate?
Not really correct to say "negative of the te-form" but I know what you mean. The others were close enough.

Well, I'll assume they accurate.
もともと 占いなど
当たらなくて 当たり前なのだ。
もし もしもだ…
*
I'm thinking 「当たる」is a punctual verb here. And yet I'm not sure it matters it the ーて form isn't used in combination with 「ある/いる」. So the only meaning of ーて left would be to link sentences? In that case, why the negative?
Yes to link the clauses. Negative because they want to say "not hit" vs "hit."
 
もともと 占いなど
当たらなくて 当たり前なのだ。
もし もしもだ…
"Originally my predictions and the like
were wrong and then right.
If that's the case..."

But I'm sure that's wrong. A hint?

The others were close enough.
Q1.: Even "originally" for 「もともと」because I would've thought that the past would be used in combination with 「もともと」.

Q2.: Why use two "ifs" in a row?: もし もしも
I'd translate that as "if that's the case" but both seem to essentially mean "if".
 
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