Japanese women still face career obstacles

[Ma Cherie]

I just read an article from the New York Times discussing the issue women in the workforce. It seems the issue is women are finding it much more difficult to enter into higher positions. One of the issues are women are being forced out of the workforce because they end having children. Another factor, is that it is assumed that a woman will eventually have a family and quit, thus being passed up for promotions.

She was passed over for promotions after she started leaving work before 6:30 each evening to pick up her daughter from day care. Then, she was pushed into a dead-end clerical job. Finally, she quit.

ﾂ"Japanese work customs make it almost impossible for women to have both a family and a career,ﾂ" said Ms. Kurose, 45, who now works for a polyester company.

Career Women in Japan Find a Blocked Path (Published 2007)

 

[Kinsao]

That is not altogether surprising to me, but still sad.
There are situations it's like that here, but nowhere near as bad as in Japan. Before 6.30, what?! ☝
I think there ought to be more options in the UK for 'half week' working (it's a concept of my own invention ); for male or female to go 2.5 days, and then partners can share child care between them. It costs so much to put a child in child care/nursery/have a nanny, that sometimes it's hardly worth working, and parents (both of them) should have the option to look after their own children, since that's the natural way of things, until school age... that's my opinion any way.

 

[Mars Man]

Yes, Ma chan, it is still behind here...with the system dragging its feet. There have been some major advances (well, major in a way) made in the past 10 years, but it seems that there are only spots here in there where it's really noticable.

This past spring, our university let all the office girls leave at 6:00, has hired more female teachers, and seems to be a bit more so on the 'open-minded' side of the general norm in the Japanese work place.

 

[Alma]

...
This past spring, our university let all the office girls leave at 6:00, has hired more female teachers, and seems to be a bit more so on the 'open-minded' side of the general norm in the Japanese work place.

good news... I guess... (OMG, what are usual working hours in Japan???)

talking about human rights...
... here, if young women is on interview for job, most of employers will ask if she is newly married, planing to have kids or pregnant. and they wont get job if answer is yes. but there is nothing to do about it now.

 

[Mars Man]

Yes, it is basically good news, although a bit hard to swallow for some. They used to be in the office until up to 7 pm. Some do leave earlier than 6 pm now I have noticed.

OH...that sounds quite a bit behind (about the job interviews there) I hope it'll get better soon, but I do understand the 'not being able to do that much about it' part.

It has been said by some who have studied the US and Japan workplace standards that Japan is improving , yes, but still some 30 years behind in women's work rights. I personally have hope for the girls here...give a little more time. MM

 

[Alma]

6, 7 pm... that is quite late. but I guess that is the way it is there.

and about situation here... we're quite behind in a lot of things, too complicated to explain, but I can only hope for the best in future (even I am not optimistic at all about it)

anyway, I do have some Japanese friends - girls my age - and I know they have a lot of problems to get a proper job over there. sad situation, but I see some improvements there.

 

[Goldiegirl]

It's hard for women in many countries. They are usually the ones who take care of the kids and work full time. It is hard to be balanced at work. How can you have two full time jobs and expect to do either one to 100%? If we want to have 2 cars, a big house, a tv and computer in every room, both parents have to work. There was a time when only one parent (usually Father) had to work to support the family. As times have changed we want more and therefore have sacrificed raising our kids and paying others to take care of them. I am not against both parents working, and I do think women should have the same opportunites as men to advance. I just think that sometimes we need to put what's best for our children in front of what we want for ourselves. Maybe the Japanese ideas aren't so bad....

 

[Ma Cherie]

It's hard for women in many countries. They are usually the ones who take care of the kids and work full time. It is hard to be balanced at work. How can you have two full time jobs and expect to do either one to 100%? If we want to have 2 cars, a big house, a tv and computer in every room, both parents have to work. There was a time when only one parent (usually Father) had to work to support the family. As times have changed we want more and therefore have sacrificed raising our kids and paying others to take care of them. I am not against both parents working, and I do think women should have the same opportunites as men to advance. I just think that sometimes we need to put what's best for our children in front of what we want for ourselves. Maybe the Japanese ideas aren't so bad....

It's not a matter of the needs of children being put aside. It's a matter of discrimination women face because it is assumed they're going to get married and have children. Because of this, women are passed up for promotions because it is assumed they'll eventually quit to stay home and raise a family. I can understand why something like this is hard for career focused women who aren't thinking about these things and are denied opportunities.

And if a woman does end up having a family, she has to leave the workforce. But what about when she's done raising her family and she decides she wants to work again? It's harder to re-enter the workforce, because she lacks skills because of being out of workforce for so long.

These ideas are bad when assumptions are made about what kind of decisions women are going to make.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I am not saying that woman shouldn't have the same opportunities for advancement in their career or even just obtaining a job. I came from a home with a working mom. I think maybe the sentiment is that women should be home for their children, but the practice in Japan is enforced against women, and that isn't right.

I do believe that one parent should be home for their kids if it's at all possible. It doesn't have to be the woman. Men can raise kids just as well. I wished my mom was an "at home" mom when I was a kid. I was jealous of the other kid's moms who could come to school and be chaperones for outings. I don't want to sound "old fashioned" or anti-women's rights but I do think there is way too much pressure on women to be everything to everyone. It's too much on the plate.

When men were the sole providers women took care of the daily household chores and raising the kids; Dad just worked and perhaps mowed the lawn! Now that women work full time too, they still get the majority of the housework to do and raise kids. That's the big difference, womens liberation in America hasn't liberated women. It's just made us into 24 hour a day workers. It hasn't freed us, but tied us down even more and with less time to get anything done. When will it be ok to be a mom, and not a career woman too? I hope Japanese women can learn from the mistakes US women have made...if you are going to work and be a mother, make sure you have a husband who will split the housework and child rearing, otherwise you're in for a long haul.

Just a little bit off topic here, I read that in Sweeden many men are stay at home parents and the women work and that it's becoming more common and that when both parents work, Sweedish men do the most housework compared to other western countries.

 

[Mars Man]

Goldiegirl san, I really wished you had paragraphed that out for us....I did get through it though.

Yes, I do understand the sentiment behind what you are saying there, Goldiegirl. I can also very well understand the message and impact of what Ma Cherie has said too.

I tend to think that there are a number of forces working together in the playing field here, and to get some sort of well-enough balanced equilibrium would be a good target in a temporary sense. Capitolism and consumerism have, in fact, taken on a size that is perhaps (to leave room for unknown data) too one-sided. Those two have come to give more than their share of pressure, I think.

In society, it can well be said, the family unit is the building block--without solid family units, society can hardly be solid as well. (note: 'hardly' does not rule out possibility) Now just what is the family unit, however, must be taken into consideration for the various societies that are under inspection, but I tend to consider that society at large--human--has kind of stopped giving thought to this matter and has kind of folded its arms and rested where it sits, in it's present, majority state.

A mother of children is only a quarter of the team, the father another quarter, and relatives (especially grandparents) another quarter, and then, social relations the remaining quarter. Within the immediate household, the mother is half, the father is half. There is no reason why father's cannot take time off to help raising children as the mother takes time to do a job, or other self-focused activities. Society and those of the work force should be willing to allocate off-time towards parents--male or female--in order to help maintain a solid social fabric, and thus, by extension, the whole of society itself.

There would always be cheaters in such a system, as there always have been, and always will be...BUT that should not stop companies from making a bit of a sacrifice for the whole of society. The family woman can work...and have some time with the kids, while the father would be doing the exact same thing.

Most of our office workers are single (male and female). Those who do have children usually have no problem with working until about 6 pm--especially if the kids are jr. highschool level--because of school hours and cram schools and the like. Also, here in Japan, many married couples--families--do live with or very near their parents, so the grandparents play a more direct role there too.

 

[Goldiegirl]

The whole quarter thing reminds me of Hilary Clinton and the whole idea of it taking a village to raise a child. What if you don't like the village? What if there aren't grandparents...where does that quarter get filled? I don't want to be a quarter of my team. I want my team to be myself and my husband 100%. I know what we will teach our kids, we can set the foundation we want.

 

[Mars Man]

I understand your feelings there. Of course, I also take it that you understood the 'academics' in the way I described what happens as well.

As I did point out, we can say that in the immediate family unit, it will be 50% husband/father and 50% wife/mother that makes the 100%--just as you have expressed interest in.

I have to admit, I do not know anything about what Hilary may have said or proposed, but I'm kind of going on a basic sociology model.

Going out of the immediate family unit, it becomes clear that relatives play a role, and other non-family/relative members play a role in the up-bringing of children. There is always a 'village' in that there will always be the in-group. There are cases where relatives do not come into play, but I would tend to think that is the rarer of the scenarios.

Anyway...to keep from embedding too deeply, my posititon is (and this especially regards Japan, but not only) of course the male should do more house work--house work is 'common group' work. (also care not to directly, or, as much as possible, indirectly even, instill gender schemas in children is good) and the female need not feel pressured by society to not participate in what has historically been male's terriotory.

For that reason, the work place at large here should open up more for women who wish to work--all the while keeping in mind family responsibilities--and also give room for men to be more flexible so as to be able to take care of family responsibilities as well. Japan is still behind in that regards.