Japanese Tattoo

malamus · 11 May 2010

Hey all, I've read the sticky and I know a fair bit about Japanese so I know about the whole not everything can be kanji and translations sometimes seem expanded, but I love the Japanese language and plan to get a tattoo big enough to hold a sizable amount of text, so lengthening is not a problem . Anyway the text in English is "What I have is more potent than magic and more lasting than pain". Google basically butchered the translation so I decided to try it myself based on what I know. My Japanese phrasing for the tattoo is "私は何が魔法よりつよいで,つうくよりももちのいいです。" - what I have is (stronger/more potent) than magic (used te form for changing desu to connect the phrasing),, and more long lasting than pain/anguish (hopefully). Is this translation correct, or is there something i am missing? I want to get this as right as possible, knowing Japanese it's a thin line between elegance and nonsensical. Thanks for your help!

Chidoriashi · 11 May 2010

malamus said:
Hey all, I've read the sticky and I know a fair bit about Japanese so I know about the whole not everything can be kanji and translations sometimes seem expanded, but I love the Japanese language and plan to get a tattoo big enough to hold a sizable amount of text, so lengthening is not a problem . Anyway the text in english is "What I have is more potent than magic and more lasting than pain". Google basically butchered the translation so I decided to try it myself based on what I know. My Japanese phrasing for the tattoo is "私は何が魔法よりつよいで,つうくよりももちのいいです。" - what I have is (stronger/more potent) than magic (used te form for changing desu to connect the phrasing),, and more long lasting than pain/anguish (hopefully). Is this translation correct, or is there something i am missing? I want to get this as right as possible, knowing Japanese it's a thin line between elegance and nonsensical. Thanks for your help!

Your tattoo still suffers the same problem as many of the tattoo request here.. it loses meaning in Japanese, plus I am not exactly sure what message you are trying to convey in English...

And whatever you do.. do not tattoo the translation you have come up with, it is pretty much total gibberish. (No offense)

If you want to stand any chance of getting something worthwhile put on your body you are going to need to be more specific about the meaning... you cannot just take whatever you think sounds cool in English and then try to put it in Japanese. The language just does not work that way.

Another thing to think about is that the general populous of Japan is not impressed by tattoos, they carry a bad social stigma and if you ever come here you will find it hard to enter certain establishments without using something to cover up the tattoo.

malamus · 11 May 2010

Chidoriashi said:
Your tattoo still suffers the same problem as many of the tattoo request here.. it loses meaning in Japanese, plus I am not exactly sure what message you are trying to convey in English...
And whatever you do.. do not tattoo the translation you have come up with, it is pretty much total gibberish. (No offense)
If you want to stand any chance of getting something worthwhile put on your body you are going to need to be more specific about the meaning... you cannot just take whatever you think sounds cool in English and then try to put it in Japanese. The language just does not work that way.
Another thing to think about is that the general populous of Japan is not impressed by tattoos, they carry a bad social stigma and if you ever come here you will find it hard to enter certain establishments without using something to cover up the tattoo.

Thanks for your advice. I know about the onsen tattoo restrictions, hopefully by the time I get there the onsens will have stopped the discrimination (I know it was based on yakuza and their tattoo traditions but hey times change). I'm also not getting the tattoo specifically for Japan, as I said before I just love the Japanese language and have always wanted a tattoo that I can read and few others can (in America anyway). As for the translation I thought it would at least make sense. I can say "I am stronger than magic" 私は魔法よりつよいです" and "I am longer lasting than pain" 私はつうくよりもちのいいです". I tried to combine the two phrases using the TE form of desu, de. The only thing that I was confused about and what possibly resulted in my translation being nonsensical was figuring out how to say "What I have" instead of I. Maybe that concept does not exist in Japanese? I wanted to say "私は何がある" or maybe 私のことは (my thing?) - should translate to what I have, is this bad? I appreciate the help, learning advanced ideas in Japanese has always intrigued me. Also, I pulled the words for magic (魔法 mahou) ,pain/anguish (tsuuku), and long lasting (mochinoii) from the denshi jisho website, which has given me the wrong popular vocab word to use on a few occasions, hence me coming here

Glenn · 11 May 2010

俺にあるものは魔法より強く、痛苦より悠久だ。

That's my shot at it, though I'm not sure what kind of effect it has, really. Anyway, the 〜て form of adjectives is formed by replacing い with くて, but I just went with the other connective: く. It felt better to me. Also, in the phrase "what I have," "what" is actually a pronoun, not an interrogative, so it's not the same as 何 -- it's more of a thing. That's why I went with もの. But like I said, I don't know how this would sound to Japanese people, so you may want to wait until one of them chimes in.

Elizabeth · 11 May 2010

malamus said:
Thanks for your advice. I know about the onsen tattoo restrictions, hopefully by the time I get there the onsens will have stopped the discrimination (I know it was based on yakuza and their tattoo traditions but hey times change). I'm also not getting the tattoo specifically for Japan, as I said before I just love the Japanese language and have always wanted a tattoo that I can read and few others can (in America anyway). As for the translation I thought it would at least make sense. I can say "I am stronger than magic" 私は魔法よりつよいです" and "I am longer lasting than pain" 私はつうくよりもちのいいです". I tried to combine the two phrases using the TE form of desu, de. The only thing that I was confused about and what possibly resulted in my translation being nonsensical was figuring out how to say "What I have" instead of I. Maybe that concept does not exist in Japanese? I wanted to say "私は何がある" or maybe 私のことは (my thing?) - should translate to what I have, is this bad? I appreciate the help, learning advanced ideas in Japanese has always intrigued me. Also, I pulled the words for magic (魔法 mahou) ,pain/anguish (tsuuku), and long lasting (mochinoii) from the denshi jisho website, which has given me the wrong popular vocab word to use on a few occasions, hence me coming here

For "what I have" in addition to Glenns' suggestion, you could say ... = 私が持っているものは
何 = basically a question word for "what ?, what is it ?" So it is used mostly for unknown items or quantities. : "Can you show me what you have?" 何があるか見せてくれますか etc

malamus · 12 May 2010

Glenn said:
俺にあるものは魔法より強く、痛苦より悠久だ。

That's my shot at it, though I'm not sure what kind of effect it has, really. Anyway, the 〜て form of adjectives is formed by replacing い with くて, but I just went with the other connective: く. It felt better to me. Also, in the phrase "what I have," "what" is actually a pronoun, not an interrogative, so it's not the same as 何 -- it's more of a thing. That's why I went with もの. But like I said, I don't know how this would sound to Japanese people, so you may want to wait until one of them chimes in.

Oh wow that sounds like almost exactly what I wanted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the literal translation to that reads "the thing that exists in me (= what I have?) is stronger than magic and more permanent than pain". I take that back it's EXACTLY what I wanted if anyone who is native Japanese can verify whether or not the idea translates across. Thanks a lot for the help.

Elizabeth · 12 May 2010

malamus said:
Oh wow that sounds like almost exactly what I wanted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the literal translation to that reads "the thing that exists in me (= what I have?) is stronger than magic and more permanent than pain". I take that back it's EXACTLY what I wanted if anyone who is native Japanese can verify whether or not the idea translates across. Thanks a lot for the help.

The more I consider, the more confusing it looks. But I wonder in the end if this should be 私に(は)あること....
私, 俺...whatever your preference.

Glenn · 12 May 2010

malamus said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the literal translation to that reads "the thing that exists in me (= what I have?) is stronger than magic and more permanent than pain".

Yup, that's it.

epigene · 12 May 2010

malamus said:
Hey all, I've read the sticky and I know a fair bit about Japanese so I know about the whole not everything can be kanji and translations sometimes seem expanded, but I love the Japanese language and plan to get a tattoo big enough to hold a sizable amount of text, so lengthening is not a problem . Anyway the text in english is "What I have is more potent than magic and more lasting than pain". Google basically butchered the translation so I decided to try it myself based on what I know. My Japanese phrasing for the tattoo is "私は何が魔法よりつよいで,つうくよりももちのいいです。" - what I have is (stronger/more potent) than magic (used te form for changing desu to connect the phrasing),, and more long lasting than pain/anguish (hopefully). Is this translation correct, or is there something i am missing? I want to get this as right as possible, knowing Japanese it's a thin line between elegance and nonsensical. Thanks for your help!

As Chidoriashi pointed out, I don't see what exactly you want to say with your original English sentence. I won't venture to translate unless I really know what you want to say.

Also, I think text in tattoo should be compressed as much as possible, rather than plain standard form, for brevity and greater sophistication. Just my two yen.

Mikawa Ossan · 13 May 2010

寂滅為楽 （じゃくめついらく）

I like this one. It's not quite the same as what you're thinking, but it's similar, at least it is in my mind.

FrustratedDave · 13 May 2010

Elizabeth said:
The more I consider, the more confusing it looks. But I wonder in the end if this should be 私に(は)あること.... 私, 俺...whatever your preference.

It is a tuff'y sticker, of corse you would want to put 俺 in it.

I would go with this,

"俺邇或物覇魔法撚強く痛苦撚悠久"

Glenn · 13 May 2010

Ha, yeah...

(That's a mess of anachronisms you've got there! And that's not all! haha)

FrustratedDave · 13 May 2010

Glenn said:
Ha, yeah...
(That's a mess of anachronisms you've got there! And that's not all! haha)

LOL, Glad you understood it!

undrentide · 13 May 2010

FrustratedDave said:
It is a tuff'y sticker, of corse you would want to put 俺 in it.

I would go with this,

"俺邇或物覇魔法撚強く痛苦撚悠久"

This reminds me of the famous (infamous?) phrase 夜露死苦 which is so much loved by motorcycle gangs!

Glenn · 13 May 2010

FrustratedDave said:
LOL, Glad you understood it!

Although I thought 波 was used more for は, and you could have used 久 for く, even though it would have been a bit repetitive. 倶 (or even 玖?) may have worked as well. Oh, and ending it in 也 may have been a nice touch too. haha

Elizabeth · 13 May 2010

Mikawa Ossan said:
寂滅為楽（じゃくめついらく）
I like this one. It's not quite the same as what you're thinking, but it's similar, at least it is in my mind.

I do too !! And 无念无想, むねんむそうexpresses the same soulful feeling with such an elegance of design...

Glenn · 14 May 2010

I wonder why 无... I didn't think it was ever used in Japanese unless they wanted to give a Chinese flair to something, like in 3x3 eyes (and it seems for 无邪志国造). Why not 無念無想?

Elizabeth · 14 May 2010

Isn't a less detailed 无 longer lasting and more tattoo appropriate, though ? Maybe even getting turned into a 天 in the process..lol.

Seriously though, I don't know exactly when nonstandard Chinese gets used in Japanese (probably a dictionary somewhere...), but just peeking around a little online you do see alternatives not infrequently in the Buddhist literature.

Glenn · 14 May 2010

It isn't nonstandard; it's actually PRC prescribed. It's the 簡体字 standard. But using it in Japanese would be like using 传, like 传説, 传達, or 宣传, as far as I'm aware. It may be an abbreviated form in handwriting, like 门 (well, something close to that) is, but you wouldn't see it in print. Where did you get the 无 version, anyway? It didn't come up in Weblio. Were you on a Chinese site or something?

Elizabeth · 14 May 2010

It was a while back but 无念无想,could have been through a Japanese Wikipedia article (that isn't pulling up now for some reason) with the others in that same set : 「諸行無常是正滅法生滅滅己寂滅為楽].

And that was badly phrased. Sorry. I meant simplified Chinese characters as non-standard Japanese. 寿 is actually the only other I know that is at least semi-regularly used.

Glenn · 14 May 2010

Strange that it would be 无念无想 with 諸行無常. Chinese Wkipedia has these character set mixings all the time for some reason (drives me crazy), but I can't recall having seen anything like it on Japanese Wikipedia. Anyway, when I see 无念无想 I can't help but read it wúniàn wúxiǎng (I suppose that doesn't mean all that much, though).

I did a Google search for that sentence (stanza?) you gave, and I found いろはにほへと as a result, which matches up each phrase with a phrase from the いろは poem and adds a modern translation. It seems to be saying that the いろは poem is an expression of the 涅槃経 (ねはんぎょう). Interesting.

Elizabeth · 14 May 2010

Dictionary :: 無 in Chinese, Japanese and Buddhism 19

Oh, I remember. It was while looking for customized calligraphic art wall that didn't require framing.
无念无想 was one of the few with this 新字体 character in their reading.

Japanese Tattoo

後輩

In imagination land

後輩

一切皆苦

先輩

後輩

先輩

一切皆苦

相変わらず不束者です

いかんわ！

先輩

一切皆苦

先輩

Japa'n vagyok

一切皆苦

先輩

一切皆苦

先輩

一切皆苦

先輩

一切皆苦

先輩

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