Japanese police and foreigners

Taiko666 · 4 Apr 2007

Recently a (white caucasian) work-colleague of mine was bashed on the head in a nightclub while he was talking civily to a Japanese girl. The perpetrator was a young Japanese-looking guy with tattoos, a terrible haircut and "truly, truly awful dress sense" (sound familiar?)

Anyway, my friend declined to go to the nearest koban to wake up the cops and report the assault as there was "absolutely no point- as a gaijin I wouldn't have been taken seriously."

Was he correct? I'd really like to hear some accounts of actual dealings with the police, especially when foreigners have reported being the victims of crimes. My own dealings have been entirely satisfactory- a stolen wallet and bicycle, both dealt with competently and politely by the local fuzz- but what of more serious matters? Please tell your stories!

taid · 4 Apr 2007

I dont think so. Atleast in roppongi, there are lots of foreigners so most of the problems which occurr are caused by foreigners... so they're taken very seriously there... I mean maybe you/gaijin aren't taken serously (or rather.. people are "afraid" of) outside Tokyo....because they're not used to them...

Taiko666 · 4 Apr 2007

taid said:
I dont think so. Atleast in roppongi, there are lots of foreigners so most of the problems which occurr are caused by foreigners... so they're taken very seriously there... I mean maybe you/gaijin aren't taken serously (or rather.. people are "afraid" of) outside Tokyo....because they're not used to them...

So he was right then. Even though he was the one bashed on the head by a drunken yakky, he'd have still got the blame 'cos he's a foreigner and 'most of the problems which occurr are caused by foreigners'

This attitude comes as no surprise. So I'd really like to be pleasantly surprised by some stories where the police were completely even-handed and fair in a foreigner/Japanese dispute...

pipokun · 4 Apr 2007

Sometimes we call it kenka, your friend was also drunk, wasn't he?

tampopo · 5 Apr 2007

He didn't say his friend was drunk, he said he was talking civilly.

nice gaijin · 5 Apr 2007

I have heard quite a few unpleasant things about foreigners dealing with police; The other day I picked up a copy of Metropolis, and the feature article was about this very issue.

snippets:

By all accounts, Matt Lacey was doing well in the
early summer of 2004. The 42-year-old American was a language student at a YMCA in Fukuoka, and he had plans to open his own business. Then in August, a friend who became worried about his absence from school found Lacey's body in his apartment. The mystery surrounding his death, says Lacey's family, is trumped only by the way local police have handled the case.
Trying to extract redress from Japan's criminal justice system can be an exercise in the absurd for anyone. But add in the suspicion that's associated with a foreign face or name, and that absurdity can turn into dismay and outrage. Many non-Japanese say their crime reports are routinely dismissed by police, who may instead turn a suspicious eye on them for daring to complain about being victims. At best, police negligence can underscore a foreigners' second-class status; at worst, it can lead to an atmosphere where crimes against gaijin are tacitly condoned.

Far more ominous is the account of a couple in Urayasu, Chiba, who wish to remain anonymous. When they phoned the police last year to report that the foreign-born husband witnessed a man beaten by three attackers and thrown into a black van, which then sped away, police abruptly lost interest after hearing his name. ﾂ"What I don't get,ﾂ" the man says, ﾂ"is two nights later, at about 8 o'clock, in front of the apartment were I've lived for four years, police showed up to interrupt my perfectly civil conversation with another black man to tell us to move on because a neighbor had called to complain. But if I call about a guy who's probably at the bottom of the Bay by now, they're not interested.ﾂ"

ﾂ"I don't think police have gotten around to seeing foreigners as potential victimsﾂ―only as potential perpetrators. I'm building a case based on anecdotes that show that [foreign] people feel they are not getting adequate police protection. First, I've heard several stories of people having chimpira (young yakuza) pick fights with them, getting beat up, then being taken to the police station and not being allowed to leave until they sign an agreement to pay restitution. Second, people are asking police for assistanceﾂ―like walking in a police box for directionsﾂ―and being asked to show their gaijin card.ﾂ"

yukio_michael · 5 Apr 2007

Nice nod to Metropolis, NGaijin, it's a magazine I try to read as often as possible, and is a great resource for anyone who is interested in what is really going on in Japan... food, concerts, and these public interest pieces... Just recently they featured an interview with the author of the notorious "Secret Files of Foreigners"[sic]?? pulp sold in Fami-ma...

I encourage everyone to check out this free publication... NGaijin, it is true is it not that the online articles are the same as those featured on the website?

Mike Cash · 5 Apr 2007

So your friend doesn't avail himself of the police, not even giving them a chance to demonstrate how seriously they would or would not take his problem, then we go into a bitchfest of second-hand anecdotes about how crappy the police are. Unfortunately, about par for the gaijin course.

Your friend should have gone to the police and requested to fill out a 被害届出 (higai todokede)....something no foreigner I've ever encountered realizes even exists. It is the key to action. Without it, complaints are treated as verbal venting. With it, an official report has been started and has to be followed up on. It's no guarantee of an outcome that one might desire, but without it you get nothing at all.

If you're going to live here and expect to make use of governmental bodies then learn a little Japanese Civics 101, folks.

By the way, the koban cops are allowed to hit the hay at 2 a.m.

Mr Man · 6 Apr 2007

I had the suspension springs stolen off my motorbike. When the cops came I asked them who would steal them off a motorbike. They said said, "Foreigners!!" LOL

I got stopped for driving without a licence in Chiba city one night (long story)
The cops said I'd be processed and fined about 120,000 yen, but since it was 4:30am (and they held me there since 11pm) I could go home and come back in a few days to do the paper work. I called them on that day and said I didn't want to go in coz I had a cold, (lie) they got all snotty and then put me onto the big station boss or whoever, and he got all snotty too. I repeated my lie about having a cold, and he just out of the blue said, (in Japanese) "Ohhh, okay then, let's call it quits! Forget about it!" I was gobsmacked like, "y'what?" and he's like, "Yeah, just don't do it again, K?" and I'm like, "You know it d00d!" LOL that was one cool cop!

Tollen · 6 Apr 2007

lol thats just plain out lucky, a bad sign really if the tales true as a station boss really shouldn't let such a negligence go un-reprimanded whatever country it's in... scary really

Mike Cash · 6 Apr 2007

Mr Man said:
I had the suspension springs stolen off my motorbike. When the cops came I asked them who would steal them off a motorbike. They said said, "Foreigners!!" LOL

I got stopped for driving without a licence in Chiba city one night (long story)
The cops said I'd be processed and fined about 120,000 yen, but since it was 4:30am (and they held me there since 11pm) I could go home and come back in a few days to do the paper work. I called them on that day and said I didn't want to go in coz I had a cold, (lie) they got all snotty and then put me onto the big station boss or whoever, and he got all snotty too. I repeated my lie about having a cold, and he just out of the blue said, (in Japanese) "Ohhh, okay then, let's call it quits! Forget about it!" I was gobsmacked like, "y'what?" and he's like, "Yeah, just don't do it again, K?" and I'm like, "You know it d00d!" LOL that was one cool cop!

Please clarify: Were you an unlicensed driver? Or did you just not have your license with you at the time?

Mr Man · 6 Apr 2007

Mike Cash said:
Please clarify: Were you an unlicensed driver? Or did you just not have your license with you at the time?

Well, actually I did have a Japanese license, but I'd been back in New Zealand for a year, and when I got back to Japan it had expired, I didn't even check it, assuming it would still be valid. When I got stopped I wasn't carrying it, so that was one problem, and when they sent me back home to get it, it turned out to be no good anyway. It was an honest mistake on my part though.

Taiko666 · 6 Apr 2007

Mike Cash said:
So your friend doesn't avail himself of the police, not even giving them a chance to demonstrate how seriously they would or would not take his problem, then we go into a bitchfest of second-hand anecdotes about how crappy the police are. Unfortunately, about par for the gaijin course.

Your friend should have gone to the police and requested to fill out a 窶敕ｭﾅ?Q窶愿債出 (higai todokede)....something no foreigner I've ever encountered realizes even exists. It is the key to action. Without it, complaints are treated as verbal venting. With it, an official report has been started and has to be followed up on. It's no guarantee of an outcome that one might desire, but without it you get nothing at all.
If you're going to live here and expect to make use of governmental bodies then learn a little Japanese Civics 101, folks.
By the way, the koban cops are allowed to hit the hay at 2 a.m.

Well, I don't think my post nor subsequent posts qualify as bitchfest... I'm just trying to find out if things are as bad as the negative hype suggests. As I've said, my experiences with the police have been nearly all positive. Apart from the thefts I mentioned, I've also been stopped 5 times, and 4 times I was doing something wrong (riding a motorbike in a bus lane: 6000yen fine and 2pts, riding a motorbike 2-up on a restricted expressway- was let off, twice riding a bicycle 2-up and tipsy- let off both times, very lucky, 'cos the 2nd time was the first time that I actually knew I was doing something wrong.) The 5th time I was stopped outside a koban and asked for my card for no apparent reason (unless having a hangover is a good reason...) Anyway, each time everything was polite and good natured.

If I'd been hit on the head, I'd have certainly gone to the koban. And even though I have no knowledge at all of this higai todokede which you mention, I would hope that the police would invite me to fill one in anyway. I don't think knowledge of official forms & procedures should be prerequisite to receiving proper attention, especially in a spontaneous, stressful situation such as I described. Thanks for the advice anyway... where did you find out about it? (Google? Debito?) Have you used it to good effect?

KirinMan · 6 Apr 2007

Thanks for the advice anyway... where did you find out about it? (Google? Debito?) Have you used it to good effect?

I can't speak for Mike but I will say that over the course of time I "learned" what it was. I can't point to any one person, nor can I say that I researched it, but with having experience with filling out police reports in the states I kind of figured, common sense kind of thing, that Japan would be the same.

I've filled the reports out for a number of reasons on a couple of different occasions, and believe me it wasn't a lot of fun, it took a lot of time. There was one time I felt a bit like I was the suspect and not the person filling the report but after it was done and ready for my signature I could understand the reasoning for the police taking such detailed information. It all goes into the the report which is then sent up the chain of command for a decision on whether not the police are going to arrest the person in question.

Like Mike says it helps sometimes to learn about these things, but I think most people don't ever think they will need to know it, because they never consider that they will be a victim, particularly here in Japan. So they overlook things like this.

Mr Man said:
Well, actually I did have a Japanese license, but I'd been back in New Zealand for a year, and when I got back to Japan it had expired, I didn't even check it, assuming it would still be valid. When I got stopped I wasn't carrying it, so that was one problem, and when they sent me back home to get it, it turned out to be no good anyway. It was an honest mistake on my part though.

Big difference when I was here back in...well a long time ago I got pulled over for driving without a valid Japanese license. I had a state-side one but of course that didn't cut it. I was driving a friends car because he was drunk and didn't want to leave his car over night way the heck away from home.

I got fined somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 yen. I deserved it because I was unlicensed here in Japan, my friend split cost of the fine, which I was very grateful for at the time.

How long was the license expired for? Also did you know there is a grace period for people that travel overseas in renewing their licenses here?

pipokun · 6 Apr 2007

tampopo said:
He didn't say his friend was drunk, he said he was talking civilly.

I should say he was civilly drunk.

Mr Man · 6 Apr 2007

Obeika said:
Big difference when I was here back in...well a long time ago I got pulled over for driving without a valid Japanese license. I had a state-side one but of course that didn't cut it. I was driving a friends car because he was drunk and didn't want to leave his car over night way the heck away from home.
I got fined somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 yen. I deserved it because I was unlicensed here in Japan, my friend split cost of the fine, which I was very grateful for at the time.
How long was the license expired for? Also did you know there is a grace period for people that travel overseas in renewing their licenses here?

I was quite negligent in checking out the actual period Japanese licenses are valid for, because coming from New Zealand, I just assumed every country was the same. (We get a license and it's valid for fifty years without renewal) So, it was well past the grace period-LOL
Sorry to hear about your fine, OUCH!!

Mike Cash · 6 Apr 2007

Taiko666 said:
If I'd been hit on the head, I'd have certainly gone to the koban. And even though I have no knowledge at all of this higai todokede which you mention, I would hope that the police would invite me to fill one in anyway.

One would hope they would, most certainly. But government workers being government workers, they don't exactly go out of their way to create work for themselves. If a complainant will merely complain and go away without filling out paperwork, so much the merrier for them. Unfortunately, foreigners tend to go to the police, voice their complaints, and leave without an official report being filed....then go ***** about the police not doing anything to help them because they're foreigners.

I don't think knowledge of official forms & procedures should be prerequisite to receiving proper attention, especially in a spontaneous, stressful situation such as I described.

I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, reality is under no obligation to comply with our expectations of it.

Thanks for the advice anyway... where did you find out about it? (Google? Debito?)

From reading Japanese books on the Japanese criminal justice system.

Have you used it to good effect?

It has never been necessary, thank goodness.

DoctorP · 6 Apr 2007

Mr Man said:
I was quite negligent in checking out the actual period Japanese licenses are valid for, because coming from New Zealand, I just assumed every country was the same. (We get a license and it's valid for fifty years without renewal) So, it was well past the grace period-LOL
Sorry to hear about your fine, OUCH!!

So by your statement, I guess that you didn't get the renewal reminder in the mail? Or you just ignored it?

Mr Man · 6 Apr 2007

CC1 said:
So by your statement, I guess that you didn't get the renewal reminder in the mail? Or you just ignored it?

It probably was sent, but the company I worked for was playing musical apartments with us, and we were moving around quite a bit, so things kinda got lost...having said that, at the time, even if I did get it I may well have ignored it...LOL

Taiko666 · 16 Apr 2007

Mike Cash said:
Unfortunately, reality is under no obligation to comply with our expectations of it.

Eloquently put as ever!

Mike Cash · 16 Apr 2007

I should also have mentioned, perhaps, that a contributing factor is that Japanese police don't wear name tags. Historically, this has made it difficult to later make any sort of stink about how they police did or did not handle any given situation. From a very few years ago the police did agree to at least put individual identifying numbers on what passes for a badge in this country.

(These things

That's an old image, showing the badges without the numbers, but if you see one up close you'll be able to spot the numbers easily enough, now that you know where to look. When going to the police with a problem, one would do well to note down the numbers of the officers so that if later on one feels that things have not been handled satisfactorily it is at least possible to put in a complaint. And, I believe, one could reasonably expect that individual officers would show quite a bit more solicitude when they see that the complainant is taking down their number for future reference.

Ewok85 · 17 Apr 2007

Interestingly, I read somewhere that if police ask you for identification (gaijin card etc) you are within your rights to see their own first to prove that they are indeed the real deal. Sounds like a good change to get the name/id-number right there.

Abasio · 17 Apr 2007

I do not think very highly of the Japanese police.

1. I have been arrested everytime I've been in Kyoto for loitering in the station. 5 minutes is apparently too long for me to be standing there.]

2. A story I heard recently in Chiba, when neighbours phoned the police to complain that there were screams & thuds coming from one of the apartments. When the police came round a man answered the door covered in blood. The police then asked if they could come in (they apparently had a warrant) he said no, the place is a mess. They went away.
I believe it could be true.

3. They do make good direction givers though

Mikawa Ossan · 17 Apr 2007

Abasio said:
1. I have been arrested everytime I've been in Kyoto for loitering in the station. 5 minutes is apparently too long for me to be standing there.]

Are you sure you don't mean "approached" instead of "arrested"? There's a big difference, you know.

Glenn · 17 Apr 2007

I'm still trying to remember if I've ever even seen a cop in Kyoto Station. Anyway, I was hanging out there waiting for people a few times, once for about 45 minutes, and no one ever said anything to me.

Japanese police and foreigners

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