Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners?

[Pachipro]

I think that the bottom line is that you are a Gaijin. You always will be no matter how much you try to be accepted as a Nihonjin. Don't worry about it and just accept things as the way they are. There is nothing in the world you can do to change it. However, by learning Japanese and trying to conform with Japan's social niceties and social customs, you are doing all you can.

Very well said Uchite! You can live there for 50 years and they will still see you as a Gaijin no matter how fluent you are or how well you understand the culture, or even if you become a citizen. Once one accepts that fact, no matter how insane it may be to us "outsiders", their life in Japan will be that much easier and fulfilling. Just go with the flow. I don't mean you have to be a doormat, but just understand the Japanese thinking on this subject and their culture and the reasons why they act the way they do and do not take it as an insult.

 

[maushan3]

I think that the bottom line is that you are a Gaijin. You always will be no matter how much you try to be accepted as a Nihonjin. Don't worry about it and just accept things as the way they are. There is nothing in the world you can do to change it. However, by learning Japanese and trying to conform with Japan's social niceties and social customs, you are doing all you can.

I can reassure you all that this is hard-core truth. Just accept it the way it is and you'll be living a very fulfilling life in Japan. And, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with being the foreigner. In fact, one gets a lot of perks from it, whereas, while being treated like a Japanese one will live like one and, trust me, the Japanese lifestyle and culture is not one that can be easily accostumed to.

Mauricio

 

[FrustratedDave]

I can reassure you all that this is hard-core truth. Just accept it the way it is and you'll be living a very fulfilling life in Japan. And, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with being the foreigner. In fact, one gets a lot of perks from it, whereas, while being treated like a Japanese one will live like one and, trust me, the Japanese lifestyle and culture is not one that can be easily accostumed to.
Mauricio

But being accepted as a foriegner and being thought of as a foriegner is two completely different things. Let me explain, although people may always see you as a foriegner you will still be required to act in a way that conforms to the typical unwritten rules of society if you really want to be accepted as an equal. Contrary to the beleif of some, although people may still look upon you as a foriegner(I emphasize the word look as in you appearance) you can be thought of as an equal. There is a misconception among some people that you will always be treated as a forieger when the reality is that if you show people around you that you are abiding by the Japanese way of life in regards to the way things are said and done here you can be show the same respect that any other typical Japanese person may receive.

How ever if you choose the "I am a foreigner, so a may as well act like one" attitude, it will be very likely that that most people will take you at face value. If you don't mind that then sure you can still have a great life in Japan, I suppose it is comes done to what you value in life.

 

[maushan3]

But being accepted as a foriegner and being thought of as a foriegner is two completely different things. Let me explain, although people may always see you as a foriegner you will still be required to act in a way that conforms to the typical unwritten rules of society if you really want to be accepted as an equal. Contrary to the beleif of some, although people may still look upon you as a foriegner(I emphasize the word look as in you appearance) you can be thought of as an equal. There is a misconception among some people that you will always be treated as a forieger when the reality is that if you show people around you that you are abiding by the Japanese way of life in regards to the way things are said and done here you can be show the same respect that any other typical Japanese person may receive.
How ever if you choose the "I am a foreigner, so a may as well act like one" attitude, it will be very likely that that most people will take you at face value. If you don't mind that then sure you can still have a great life in Japan, I suppose it is comes done to what you value in life.

I appreciate your response to my comment.

I know exactly what you're talking about and I know what you mean as I lived 1 year in Japan surrounded 95% of the time by Japanese people so I know exactly how foreigners are portrayed and what to do if one behaves like a typical rawdy foreigner.

What I meant is that one won't be accepted as a Japanese person no matter how hard one tries, but that doesn't mean to just do whatever you want. I mean that one can be respectful and abide by the rules and still live happily and have Japanese as well as gaijin friends (or only gaijin friends!). One can follow every rule and try as hard and they'll certainly apreciate it and show you their support and that will help ALOT in living in Japan but they won't accept you as one of their own.

Mauricio

 

[FrustratedDave]

What I meant is that one won't be accepted as a Japanese person no matter how hard one tries, but that doesn't mean to just do whatever you want. I mean that one can be respectful and abide by the rules and still live happily and have Japanese as well as gaijin friends (or only gaijin friends!). One can follow every rule and try as hard and they'll certainly apreciate it and show you their support and that will help ALOT in living in Japan but they won't accept you as one of their own.
Mauricio

You are right , you may never be thought of as Japanese purely for the fact of your appearance, but it is certainly possible to be thought of as "one of their own" as you put it. You certainly won't be thought of in that manner from strangers, but your close freinds and family and even some not so close friends will or should I say have a good chance of being thought of that way. But this may take decades to acheive, what I am saying is that it is not impossible.

 

[caster51]

an interesting blog
http://love-me.cc/blog/yado/kamesei/index.php

Is he still an outsider?

 

[maushan3]

You are right , you may never be thought of as Japanese purely for the fact of your appearance, but it is certainly possible to be thought of as "one of their own" as you put it. You certainly won't be thought of in that manner from strangers, but your close freinds and family and even some not so close friends will or should I say have a good chance of being thought of that way. But this may take decades to acheive, what I am saying is that it is not impossible.

(Don't take this in any wrong way whatsoever)

It is not impossible. In fact, only things like flying, etc. are impossible. It might take decades to achieve, that's a long run and hopefully not many people are in the business of hoping and trying for decades to fit in with a certain group, in this case, the Japanese.

I'm just saying if you want to live there, great, enjoy it but don't expect to be one of their own. I, for one, am not interested in changing my way of things just to have a chance to fit in. Just, be friendly, respect them and
their customs and one'll be good.

Mauricio

 

[Karakuri]

"The solution I have found to the "being treated like a retarded" situations is to make them feel as if they are the one to have asked an utterly stupid question, so as to culpabilize them on their ignorance and hope they don't reiterate (even with someone else) later."

I'd like to do that. xD But can a woman do this without being judged as "difficult" and "overbearing"?

Oh, I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope I can find the more non-conformist Japanese out there. There have to heaps of them, somewhere.

 

[Scalemx]

Okay, I think I have read most of the stuff online here and I do have some points to add:
possible things to consider:
-Japanese people like to have the 'correct' reaction to people. The right mode of speech, the right place to sit at a table, the right way to address people, they would like to say the right things. This means that they have tons of (travel) books, which for example tell you the rules on where to sit at a European table or on a European couch as a visitor. While in my country and family, there are no rules for who sits where, this book's explanation will set the mind of Japanese visitors at ease.

-The same thing applies to encountering a foreigner. Rather than just being themselves, they are either too embarrassed, because they have no idea what to say or ask, or they have heard or been told by someone else, which questions are good to ask. They will almost all behave in a similar way, because they read it in a magazine or book or they heard it from someone else. The asking for the 4 seasons is a popular one. In summer Japanese people say a thousand times it's hot. Everyone can feel it's hot, they are not stating something, they are just being polite and saying something. So when a Japanese cashier is ignoring you, she is just hoping that by saying as little as possible, she will have done the right job.

-They say you are good at eating with chopsticks or good at Japanese, because they want to be polite. They are not judging your ability or being amazed by it. (unless they say it repeatedly and then it is because they compare you to how long children take to learn to eat with chopsticks. Even then, they are still most likely just being polite)

-Also if they talk to your boyfriend or girlfriend instead of you, it is most likely because they don't want to offend you if you don't speak Japanese. They want to be polite. For them it would be much better if they could be amazed at you being smart and speaking Japanese in the end, rather than having you not being able to reply because they made assumptions.

An example of the above 'sample conversation with a foreigner tourist', which most Japanese people know is:
-You:Hey, nice to meet you.
-Japanese:Nice to meet you too.
-Japanese: How has your stay in Japan so far?/Are you enjoying yourself in Japan?

In standard Japanese this would be something like:
-窶堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙懌?堋ｵ窶堙
-窶堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙懌?堋ｵ窶堙
-ﾂ債｡窶堙懌?堙??愿ｺ窶怒窶堙坂?堙??堋､窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堋ｩ/窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙最?y窶堋ｵ窶堋｢窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩ

The reason that I know this is a standard question is because what you encounter instead from time to time is this one:
-窶堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙懌?堋ｵ窶堙
-窶堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙懌?堋ｵ窶堙
-窶堙??堋､ﾂ？/ﾅ?y窶堋ｵ窶堋｢ﾂ？

They assume because of context you will know that they are talking about you being in Japan. They assume you will be able to answer, because it is a standard situation.

The point I don't like:
-I am not American or English, my native language is not English. There is no such thing as: 'foreigners like this'. There are many kinds of foreigners. I usually counter this assumption by saying: Japanese and Chinese are also the same then?

Anyway, there are of course racist Japanese, but the majority would in my opinion be shy, scared to not be respectful enough, holding onto strict false guidelines.

If a person in a wheelchair or a movie star would enter your shop, you may react differently to them than to the average customer. Regardless whether they would like to be treated the same or not. It is hypocritical as the title of the topic says, but are the intentions really that bad?