Japanese Language Proficiency Level 2?
- Thread starter Eucharistadorer227
- Start date
- 15 Mar 2002
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I beg your pardon: Reading Japanese Pulp
And that is an incomplete list.
I just wish to use this to point out to the original poster that others in the thread are correctly making the distinction between fluency and proficiency.
Thunderthief
後輩
- 19 Mar 2006
- 103
- 2
How long would it take to reach level 1 proficency attending a university in the US?
i cant even seem to reach level 4 on self study (im lazy)
i cant even seem to reach level 4 on self study (im lazy)
- 21 Feb 2007
- 8
- 0
- Thread starter
- #29
I was told by a Japanese professor that level 1 was highly unlikely to be achieved from an undergraduate education. But they did say that level 2 is obtainable.
ET_Fukuoka
先輩
- 7 Feb 2007
- 143
- 1
The problem with studying at University is not being able to only focus on Japanese study!! Remember you are also taking other classes at the same time. You will learn a lot but reaching level one without being in Japan is very hard. Unless you live in an area with a lot of Japanese residents or tourists. Like Honolulu or the Gold Coast.
ThunderChief:
I think you should be able to pass level 4 after taking Japanese 101 if your a good student. If I remember correctly at my university (University of Hawaii) in the Japanese 101 class we had to learn Hiragana the first week and Katakana the second week(language classes are 5 days a week). The rest of the class we had to learn about 50+ Kanji (and the multiple readings of course) and all the usual basic grammar structures. We took some of the old level 4 test and most of the students passed.
ThunderChief:
I think you should be able to pass level 4 after taking Japanese 101 if your a good student. If I remember correctly at my university (University of Hawaii) in the Japanese 101 class we had to learn Hiragana the first week and Katakana the second week(language classes are 5 days a week). The rest of the class we had to learn about 50+ Kanji (and the multiple readings of course) and all the usual basic grammar structures. We took some of the old level 4 test and most of the students passed.
senseiman
先輩
- 24 Jun 2003
- 679
- 47
I passed level 2 in 2003. I've never had the time to go for level 1 but maybe someday.
Anyway, these tests are useful as benchmarks in Japanese proficiency (except for actually speaking the language, which isn't tested, but for all the other skills involved in language proficiency) and I would say that if you passed level 2 after studying Japanese at a US college without having lived in Japan for an extended period of time you are doing pretty well for yourself.
Really you can pass these tests by just studying on your own without paying for school (I've never taken a Japanese lesson in my life), but I would say that only applies if you live in the country. But my point here is that if you study Japanese at a US college and pass level 2, then after college you can go to Japan to work or something and probably after a year of further studying on your own you'd be all set to take level 1.
If you have passed level 2 you can probably read Japanese well enough to read books and newspapers, though you'd still need a dictionary. It depends a lot too, there are a lot of people who have passed level 2 but whose actualy level is much higher but perhaps not quite high enough to pass level 1. You need 1000 kanji to pass level 2 and 2,000 to pass level 1, so there are probably a lot of people out there who fall somewhere in the middle of those two benchmarks.
Anyway, these tests are useful as benchmarks in Japanese proficiency (except for actually speaking the language, which isn't tested, but for all the other skills involved in language proficiency) and I would say that if you passed level 2 after studying Japanese at a US college without having lived in Japan for an extended period of time you are doing pretty well for yourself.
Really you can pass these tests by just studying on your own without paying for school (I've never taken a Japanese lesson in my life), but I would say that only applies if you live in the country. But my point here is that if you study Japanese at a US college and pass level 2, then after college you can go to Japan to work or something and probably after a year of further studying on your own you'd be all set to take level 1.
If you have passed level 2 you can probably read Japanese well enough to read books and newspapers, though you'd still need a dictionary. It depends a lot too, there are a lot of people who have passed level 2 but whose actualy level is much higher but perhaps not quite high enough to pass level 1. You need 1000 kanji to pass level 2 and 2,000 to pass level 1, so there are probably a lot of people out there who fall somewhere in the middle of those two benchmarks.
Thunderthief
後輩
- 19 Mar 2006
- 103
- 2
Sounds like a good plan to me, but I don't really have the disipline for self study. I get to thinking "i dont have to, it doesnt matter if i skip study today" and stuff like that and I just never get anywhere.
Thats why I think a university is best in my case, that way I know I HAVE to study this, and I HAVE to study that... more motivation.
Kinda like giving myself a kick in the rear, because im a bad procrastinator.
Thats why I think a university is best in my case, that way I know I HAVE to study this, and I HAVE to study that... more motivation.
Kinda like giving myself a kick in the rear, because im a bad procrastinator.
ET_Fukuoka
先輩
- 7 Feb 2007
- 143
- 1
Has anyone ever bothered to figure out how many kanji you actually have to learn?? What I mean is that one "Kanji" has multiple readings and combines to form many different words.
My educated guess would be to times the number by about 5??
1000 (Kanji)
X 5 (+/-multiple readings_
-----
5000 <----- The real number ????
My educated guess would be to times the number by about 5??
1000 (Kanji)
X 5 (+/-multiple readings_
-----
5000 <----- The real number ????
senseiman
先輩
- 24 Jun 2003
- 679
- 47
Thats a good point. When you say "1,000 kanji" it doesn't sound like all that much, but when you factor in all the various readings and meanings of each it really is a huge task.
Ewok85
先輩
- 14 Nov 2003
- 2,401
- 44
3 would be closer - most kanji have a single kun and multiple on readings, with exceptions going both ways.
Its not kanji that you worry about, its words. Individual kanji mean nothing, compounds are where its at
and theres 8000 of them in the JLPT2.
GaijinPunch
遠いから行きません
- 25 Nov 2004
- 1,275
- 34
Anyone's going to have a hard time attainging JLPT 1 without living in Japan for an extended period. I suppose undergrad in Japanese + a year in Japan is attainable but highly unlikely. I was only able to get JLPT 2 in this period of time w/ a 3-month study abroad in the middle, and just barely at that.
If you're studying Japanese just around the JLPT-1, you will miss all sorts of aspects of the langauge which make day to day life much less robotic. You'll be able to read a newspaper, but can you talk socially? Will you be able to pick up strong dialects? Even having had a very verbal exposure to the language, I have the hardest time talking to my father-in-law who seems very unsympathetic to my gaijin ears.
Amen. The kanji portion of the JLPT-1 is the easiest part. The "tango" is amongst the hardest... for me anyway. You need to know when differentiate between words like (in English) Abolish, obliterate, destroy, nullify, etc.
If you're studying Japanese just around the JLPT-1, you will miss all sorts of aspects of the langauge which make day to day life much less robotic. You'll be able to read a newspaper, but can you talk socially? Will you be able to pick up strong dialects? Even having had a very verbal exposure to the language, I have the hardest time talking to my father-in-law who seems very unsympathetic to my gaijin ears.
Amen. The kanji portion of the JLPT-1 is the easiest part. The "tango" is amongst the hardest... for me anyway. You need to know when differentiate between words like (in English) Abolish, obliterate, destroy, nullify, etc.
GaijinPunch
遠いから行きません
- 25 Nov 2004
- 1,275
- 34
It's part of the first section. I guess this would be the "pick the reading" portion of the test. It's pretty much the only section w/ more than a few gimme's. The listening is traditionally the easiest entire section, but I had a tricky one this last time.
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
- 1,516
- 78
I'm not sure where you got these mistaken notions about level two, but someone who is at (and not above) the requirements for level 2 (1000 kanji, 6000 word vocabulary) would have a fairly difficult time reading those books you have listed there. A large portion of the kanji in them are outside the 窶ｹﾂｳﾋ?ｧﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡ list and there is a lot of vocabulary that an intermediate learner wouldn't know. I think you overestimate the meaning of the level 2 test, or underestimate what it takes to read a book like those.
The7thSamurai
Master of the Universe
- 4 Feb 2005
- 765
- 27
I passed level 3 last year with an 85% mark, but my Japanese is not nearly enough for working in an all Japanese environment. I suspect a pass of level 2 to be just enough to get by in a Japanese environment - with a lot of difficulty. However it depends on how you pass. Someone like Mike Cash who never studied formally, but was able to pass level 2 probably has a greater ability to live in an all Japanese environment than someone who passed by way of formal education.
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
I have level 2, and those are some of the books I have read, all sans dictionary. What level have you passed and how much reading of Japanese books have you attempted?
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
- 1,516
- 78
The fact that you passed level 2 is irrelevant. Your actual ability is obviously well beyond level 2. By your reasoning, you could have taken level 4 and then made the claim that a level 4 ability is enough to read those books (which I was assuming you had read). I was careful to say in my most recent post that, "someone who is at (and not above) the requirements for level 2 (1000 kanji, 6000 word vocabulary) would have a fairly difficult time reading those books you have listed there."
As for me, I have passed the level 1 test, which I took last December, and I took and passed level 2 a year before that. I have had many failed attempts at reading Japanese books over the past 6 years but my first success was with book 7 of ﾂ青｢窶堙俄?堙?窶｢sﾂ幸窶堙遺?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｲ窶堙? a series intended for elementary school children, which has furigana on most of the kanji. I began reading it shortly before taking the level 2 test, and finished about a month after the test. I looked up, and wrote down every word I didn't know (about 3000 words), and took the same approach for books 8-10.
After that, I started reading ﾆ椎?ﾆ停?愴丹 by 窶氾ｩ窶禿佛津ｵﾅｽi, but stoped halfway through to read ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙娯?吮??ﾂ心窶堙??､窶堙ｰ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｯ窶堙? which was considerably easier, before finishing ﾆ椎?ﾆ停?愴丹. I read about 150 pages of the first volume of ﾆ陳債ーﾆ筑ﾂ人窶堙娯?｢ﾂｨﾅ津ｪ, and recently finished reading 窶敘ｽﾅｽm窶堙戸?､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ絶?敘ｽﾂｮ. After I finish book 11 of ﾂ青｢窶堙俄?堙?窶｢sﾂ幸窶堙遺?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｲ窶堙 (which was recently published), I'm hoping to try to tackle ﾂ坂?倪?ｰﾃ??堙娯?｢iﾅ?i, if it's not too difficult.
So basically, I know from personal experience what it means, and what it doesn't mean to have level 2 ability because I was there a year ago. Even now, though I could probably read a book by 窶愿?窶彡ﾂ康窶｢v or ﾂ渉ｼ窶怒ﾂ青ｴ窶卍｣ without a tremendous amount of difficulty, it still wouldn't be easy, but maybe that will be different another year from now.
As for me, I have passed the level 1 test, which I took last December, and I took and passed level 2 a year before that. I have had many failed attempts at reading Japanese books over the past 6 years but my first success was with book 7 of ﾂ青｢窶堙俄?堙?窶｢sﾂ幸窶堙遺?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｲ窶堙? a series intended for elementary school children, which has furigana on most of the kanji. I began reading it shortly before taking the level 2 test, and finished about a month after the test. I looked up, and wrote down every word I didn't know (about 3000 words), and took the same approach for books 8-10.
After that, I started reading ﾆ椎?ﾆ停?愴丹 by 窶氾ｩ窶禿佛津ｵﾅｽi, but stoped halfway through to read ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙娯?吮??ﾂ心窶堙??､窶堙ｰ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｯ窶堙? which was considerably easier, before finishing ﾆ椎?ﾆ停?愴丹. I read about 150 pages of the first volume of ﾆ陳債ーﾆ筑ﾂ人窶堙娯?｢ﾂｨﾅ津ｪ, and recently finished reading 窶敘ｽﾅｽm窶堙戸?､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ絶?敘ｽﾂｮ. After I finish book 11 of ﾂ青｢窶堙俄?堙?窶｢sﾂ幸窶堙遺?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｲ窶堙 (which was recently published), I'm hoping to try to tackle ﾂ坂?倪?ｰﾃ??堙娯?｢iﾅ?i, if it's not too difficult.
So basically, I know from personal experience what it means, and what it doesn't mean to have level 2 ability because I was there a year ago. Even now, though I could probably read a book by 窶愿?窶彡ﾂ康窶｢v or ﾂ渉ｼ窶怒ﾂ青ｴ窶卍｣ without a tremendous amount of difficulty, it still wouldn't be easy, but maybe that will be different another year from now.
senseiman
先輩
- 24 Jun 2003
- 679
- 47
I don't know. I read two of Haruki Murakami's books (Norweigan Wood and South of the Border, West of the Sun) cover to cover in the original Japanese without much trouble at about the same time I passed 2kyuu (which I only got a little over 70% on, so unlike Mike Cash my level wasn't beyond the 2kyuu level). I needed a dictionary at first but after getting about halfway through Norwiegan Wood I was able to do without.
I think it depends a lot on the author's style. Murakami writes in the first person, which is very easy to read. Plus he doesn't use a lot of obscure vocabulary and uses modern, everyday Japanese.
I've tried reading other authors like Shiba Ryotaro and Yukio Mishima and had significantly greater difficulty, mainly due to the use of more complex grammatical structures and much more difficult vocabulary.
I think it depends a lot on the author's style. Murakami writes in the first person, which is very easy to read. Plus he doesn't use a lot of obscure vocabulary and uses modern, everyday Japanese.
I've tried reading other authors like Shiba Ryotaro and Yukio Mishima and had significantly greater difficulty, mainly due to the use of more complex grammatical structures and much more difficult vocabulary.
GaijinPunch
遠いから行きません
- 25 Nov 2004
- 1,275
- 34
I don't think Mike is advocating that someone w/ level 2 can read the books and take in everything 100%, but as he has stated in other threads somewhere, for personal enjoyment, their should be no issue.
How were they? I picked up one of this... Yume de Aimashou or something. Pretty good, which is a series of 1-2 page short stories, which I rarely find interesting.
How were they? I picked up one of this... Yume de Aimashou or something. Pretty good, which is a series of 1-2 page short stories, which I rarely find interesting.
senseiman
先輩
- 24 Jun 2003
- 679
- 47
They were pretty good. Actually, the two I read were almost identical thematically so I wouldn't recommend reading both.
I read "Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World" in English and enjoyed it quite a bit, but Norweigan Wood and South of the Border, West of the Sun are completely different.
On a personal note, its been about two years since I came back from Japan (after a 5 year stay). I'm in law school now so I haven't had much chance to keep up on my Japanese studies, but reading this thread I thought "hmm, I really ought to find the time to get back into Japanese". So I cracked open one of my Japanese books yesterday to try reading it and found that I had lost a lot of my reading ability in the past two years. For the most part I can remember the meaning of the kanji when i see them but can't for the life of me remember how to read them, even some of the simple ones. So I've got my work cut out for me if I'm going to "get back on the horse".
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