Japanese Imperial :)

[Mandylion]

The first invasion or the last?

Toyotomi Hideyoshi tried to invade Korea (twice) from 1592 -1598.

Japan also took control over much of Korea after the Sino-Japanese war (1895-96). Korea was annexed in 1910.

 

[Ewok85]

I was quite interested by the article regarding the original spelling of Korea, apparantly on early european maps it was marked as 'Corea' but due to japanese influences (ie. Co in japanese is written as Ko こ).

I think some people are taking the actions of one person to be the will of many, maybe they need to learn they're history in general better.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - George Santayana

 

[senseiman]

I think there are good points on both sides of this debate.

Its true that you can't blame the new generation for the sins of the old one. But when I see Koizumi visiting Yasakuni or revisionist Japanese historians arguing that Japanese war crimes are myths I can't help but think that the younger generation is trying its best to ignore the lessons of the elder generations mistakes and misdeeds. Their motivations for doing so don't seem at all honorable or honest to me and in that regard I can totally see why the Chinese would have a right to be upset.

On the other hand, its true that China has commited horrendous atrocities of its own for which it has never apologized. In Japan's case it can at least be argued that the government in power when the imperial army commited its atrocities no longer exists. But in China the same regime that was responsible for the brutal suppression of ethnic minorities in the decades after the revolution is still in power and indeed still repressing people.

What a world!

 

[Grandpa Frank]

HATE & GUILT !!

It's been over 30 years, but I still remember the evil glares I got from Japanese people who were visiting the Atomic Bomb Museum in Nagasaki when I went there. I felt so guilty to see what my government had done. Even at 20 years old it was beyond my comprehension!

Frank

 

[Eternal Wind]

sou sou,all that was in the past just let it be forgotten,revenge and revenge will be endless...

 

[Hachiko]

It's been over 30 years, but I still remember the evil glares I got from Japanese people who were visiting the Atomic Bomb Museum in Nagasaki when I went there. I felt so guilty to see what my government had done. Even at 20 years old it was beyond my comprehension!

I understand your guilt, but as I like to say, "let bygones be bygones." You can't change the past, unless you had the power to. But if you did you would suffer in the process, a la Sailor Pluto, just to go on a sentai limb...
:sorry:

 

[fugue]

War crimes committed by the Japanese during WW II is one thing.

Communist China making use of this to promote loyalty to the regime and to hide its own crimes is another.

1. That the post-war Japanese government has never acknowledged or apologized for the crimes the imperial Japan committed during the war.

2. That the Japanese schools has never taught about the crimes the imperial Japan committed during the war.

These two statements are false. Correct with evidence if you argue otherwise.

 

[senseiman]

In fairness to the Chinese (and Koreans)

1. I don't think they are protesting that Japan has never acknowledged or apologized for war crimes. Several prime ministers have apologized in the past for Japan's atrocities in the war. What they seem angry about today is that Koizumi visits the Yasakuni shrine in his official capacity as prime minister. This gesture of honoring war criminals can reasonably be said to make past apologies for their crimes ring hollow.

2. From the way I understand it the controversy over how Japanese schools teach history has nothing to do with how history is taught now or has been taught since the end of the war. The Chinese and Korean governments are upset with changes proposed to the curriculum by certain right-wing groups that would remove most (if not all) references to Japan's wartime crimes. The new textbooks would, among other things, remove all reference to such issues as the use of comfort women by the imperial army, which is understandably still a sensitive subject in countries whose women were abducted to perform such service.

 

[fugue]

senseiman wrote:

1. I don't think they are protesting that Japan has never acknowledged or apologized for war crimes....

I think that is exactly what they have been protesting against, as you could observe some on this thread as well.

What they seem angry about today is that Koizumi visits the Yasakuni shrine in his official capacity as prime minister.

Yasukuni is a different issue on its own right.

The Chinese and Korean governments are upset with changes proposed to the curriculum by certain right-wing groups

This rather recent incident, too, is not the only thing they are protesting against, unless you argue that the "new history textbooks" written by rightist scholars are the textbooks all Japanese students are studying in schools today.

 

[senseiman]

I wasn't referring to what people on this thread had written, I was talking about the position of the Chinese and Korean governments. As I said, Japanese prime ministers HAVE apologized for past war crimes, so it wouldn't make much sense for China and Korea to be complaining that they hadn't, would it? From what I've read in the papers these days, itis specifically the visits by Koizumi to Yasakuni that upset China and Korea and rightly so. Its not a seperate issue as it is directly related to the Japanese government's acceptance of responsibility for war crimes.

What else have they been protesting about in relation to education? You implied in your earlier post that China is upset because Japanese children are NEVER taught about war crimes in school, which is patently false. It seems like you are just trying to make a straw man argument. The rightist written textbooks aren't going to be used throughout Japan, from what I understand it is up to individual boards of education to decide. But, again from what I've read in the papers, these textbooks and not the overall education of Japanese children are the specific complaints of the Chinese and Korean governments.

 

[fugue]

I wasn't referring to what people on this thread had written, I was talking about the position of the Chinese and Korean governments.

I am talking about people criticizing Japan in general. Not just governments or you or particular individuals protesting on some particular issues. If you don't support the above two statements, that's fine. But I suspect that there are many who do. In fact there are very few who argue like you do. I am asking them to come out and backup their allegations.

It seems like you are just trying to make a straw man argument.

Google search or search any Japan related forums like this and I bet you'll find a bunch of "straw men."

 

[bossel]

I don't know the exact position of the PRC gouvernment, but I also participate in a Chinese forum & what I see there is exactly what Fugue mentioned. A lot of Chinese complain about the lack of an official Japanese apology & allege that Japanese are taught nothing about Japanese war crimes, esp. Unit 731 & the Nanjing massacre.
The shrine visits of course add to that.

 

[senseiman]

I see. If you are just talking about individuals, then yeah there definitely are a lot of people out there making uninformed criticism of Japan, including people on this and other boards. I don't support the views of the rabidly anti-Japanese people like the Chinese gentleman who started this thread, though within certain limits I can sympathize with criticism of Japan on some of these issues. Plus it seems to me that a lot of prominent Japanese politicians like Koizumi and Ishihara are simply intent on offending the Chinese for political points at home, so to a certain extent I think they have brought on a lot of this anger against Japan themselves and have no one else to blame for it.

 

[ohayougozaru]

heard mao tse dung commited genocide-like to his own people, or should say on his back yard, up to tens of millions.... must lots of good ones lost.... perhaps peope tend to be presbyopic timewise, how about nam how many for both sides, how about iraq?? how many will costs of lives be for that peace or whatsoever??

 

[Jean-Francois]

Ha ha ha... Je suis heureux de savoir que mon anglais n'est pas le pire dans ce forum !

 

[Gaki]

Every country screws over another at one point of another...
Technically countries like America and Australia shouldnt even be run by Caucasian people.

Anyway in my experience with Japanese friends, i tend to get alot of mutual respect between us (I am Chinese btw), even if WW2 crops up in the conversation at one point or another we usually just mutually agree it was a stupid war.
The Japanese people who would disrespect me due to where i'm from i'd rather not associate myself with.