Japanese behaviour: Is she beeing rude or not?

Yuta73 · 14 Aug 2010

From the book:
みか：レオ、実は、私、仕事が入っちゃって。そろそろ行かないと。
レオ：ええっ？みかさん、行っちゃうんですか
みか：じゃあ、あき、レオをよろしくね。

I know よろしく has lots of nuances and very often its meanings are very difficult to grasp. But Mika here does not even take care to answer Leo and instead decides to talk to Aki. Or is the last sentence a way of being polite to Leo?

Toritoribe · 14 Aug 2010

みか asks アキ to take care of レオ in the last line. It's quite natural to address one's friend without any honorifics.

Yuta73 · 14 Aug 2010

Toritoribe said:
みか asks アキ to take care of レオ in the last line. It's quite natural to address one's friend without any honorifics.

Please reread the post. What about Leo making a question that Mika doesn't bother to answer?. It's like if he didn't say anything.

Jericho Desu · 14 Aug 2010

Yuta73 said:
Please reread the post. What about Leo making a question that Mika doesn't bother to answer?. It's like if he didn't say anything.

Saying "Yes I am going" or whatever is kind of obvious in this context I believe, Leo is just being rhetorical here. Mika is not being rude, they just have that kind of relationship. That's my guess at least.

Toritoribe · 14 Aug 2010

Yeah, the situation is quite natural as they are. (みか is older than あき and レオ, at least than レオ, isn't she? Their relationship can be easily guessed just from that three lines, if you have decent comprehension.)

Mike Cash · 14 Aug 2010

Yuta73 said:
Please reread the post. What about Leo making a question that Mika doesn't bother to answer?. It's like if he didn't say anything.

You're being too literal.

Literally, he is asking her if she is going.

Functionally, he is expressing regret at her departure. (He knows she is leaving; she just told him so).

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

I agree with the guys above that the conversation is very natural and it is easy to imagine the situation. Also, it is correct that the question is not actually a question that requires an answer like yes or no.

However, I personally do not like a person like Mika very much. She should have had the decency to utter a word of apology such as ごめんね or whatever to Leo, no matter what kind of relationship they have. She could easily find that Leo regretted her having to go, but she didn't even say goodbye --- じゃあね to him. In that sense, it was nothing wrong that you thought she was a little rude. But in reality, there are many people who don't care about such things... therefore there's nothing wrong with the conversation itself.

Toritoribe · 14 Aug 2010

This is my wild guess, but how about if みか knows that あき likes レオ and said the last line with smiling/winking to あき? みか is not rude but rather thoughtful. This kind of situation is quite frequently occurred in a drama/manga/anime, I suppose. Anyway, there is no doubt that we need more context to judge if みか is rude or not.;-)

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

I would say, in that case, Mika was being rude to Leo because she was thoughtful...

Mike Cash · 14 Aug 2010

styuki said:
However, I personally do not like a person like Mika very much. She should have had the decency to utter a word of apology such as ごめんね or whatever to Leo, no matter what kind of relationship they have. She could easily find that Leo regretted her having to go, but she didn't even say goodbye --- じゃあね to him. In that sense, it was nothing wrong that you thought she was a little rude. But in reality, there are many people who don't care about such things... therefore there's nothing wrong with the conversation itself.

All of the things you think Mika didn't do.....she actually did do. It is all wrapped up in じゃあ、あき、レオをよろしくね。 The final words of parting are words to make sure someone looks after Leo during her absence. What the heck more expression of caring/concern/affection do you want? You have to view this under Japanese social standards and understand the implications of よろしく in this situation.

I don't know how people are reading anything rude into any part of that little exchange.

Mika regretfully states she has to go (yes, regret is voiced in the first line)
Leo expresses regret that she has to go.
Mika asks someone to look after Leo during her absence.

As Japanese goes, it is practically a torrid love scene.

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

Mike Cash said:
Mika regretfully states she has to go (yes, regret is voiced in the first line)
Leo expresses regret that she has to go.
Mika asks someone to look after Leo during her absence.

And then, before going (or even better, before asking Aki to look after Leo), she should have said something directly to Leo.

Mike Cash · 14 Aug 2010

styuki said:
And then, before going (or even better, before asking Aki to look after Leo), she should have said something directly to Leo.

So you won't be happy until this Japanese conversation is conducted under the societal norms of some other language?

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

Mike Cash said:
So you won't be happy until this Japanese conversation is conducted under the societal norms of some other language?

The conversation is okay. That's very natural. What I thought is that she could be more polite to Leo... and I personally would not like to make friends with someone like Mika.

Also, I don't know much about societal norms of other languages than Japanese.

undrentide · 14 Aug 2010

styuki said:
The conversation is okay. That's very natural. What I thought is that she could be more polite to Leo... and I personally would not like to make friends with someone like Mika.

Also, I don't know much about societal norms of other languages than Japanese.

Even though Mika did not say anything directly to Leo - as Mike Cash pointed out, his words are more of mild compaining/expression of his disappointment and normally it is not taken as a real "question" which requires answer - she expressed that she did care about Leo by saying レオをよろしく to Aki. It is obvious to the people there that she did not ignore Leo.

In this situation, which looks very casual among close friends, Mika's behaviour is nothing to be regarded as "rude" nor "lack of consideration".

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

styuki said:
Also, it is correct that the question is not actually a question that requires an answer like yes or no.

It looks like we have similar opinions in some points.

styuki said:
it was nothing wrong that you thought she was a little rude. But in reality, there are many people who don't care about such things... therefore there's nothing wrong with the conversation itself.

I suppose you are one of those people who don't care, and I am not.

undrentide · 14 Aug 2010

styuki said:
It looks like we have similar opinions in some points.

I suppose you are one of those people who don't care, and I am not.

I am not, though I do not expect you to agree.
I do not think we should discuss further because judging the actual situation and one's attitude from just a simple text as OP quoted does not make sense.

One thing I can say is Japanese language is very much context driven (so much can be left out when it is obvious for both parties) and it is very important to read between lines even in speech in Japanese culture.
I see many cases where people take offense where there's none and it is I guess because people see the things from different angle when they are from different culture (not necessarily different countries, as it could happen between Japanese people, for example.)
Something people take for granted, something people believe it is a commonsense in one culture can be something unusual or even outrageous in another.
In that sense, the text OP quoted is written that Leo seems to be treated by his friends in a very Japanese way, and the author of the text book would never even imagined that Mika's behaviour can be regarded to be rude or heartless by the learners.

styuki · 14 Aug 2010

undrentide said:
In that sense, the text OP quoted is written that Leo seems to be treated by his friends in a very Japanese way, and the author of the text book would never even imagined that Mika's behaviour can be regarded to be rude or heartless by the learners.

That's very interesting because I automatically thought that the author wanted to make fun jokingly of the miserable way Leo was treated by Mika when I read the simple three lines. Anyway, I agree with you that further discussion will take us nowhere now that we do not know the context. At least Yuta73 will know that the question can be controversial even among native Japanese speakers, and that's a good piece of information.

Yuta73 · 17 Aug 2010

Sorry for my absence, it was a long weekend at my country!.
I'd like to thank everybody for providing the explanations. I think I get the idea clearly now. As I thought, a lot can be learnt from the situation. So many unspoken things.

So as to provide some more context, みか is just friend from both, same level, maybe she likes レオ, always helping him. レオ and あきstudy 合気道 together, あき is more advanced. レオ has a crush on あき and みか knows it. It looks to me that みか is just creating a situation for them to be together as レオ is too shy.
Such a love tringle, huh?. Too bad later we find that あき already has a boyfriend.

みなさん、もうどうもありがとう

Japanese behaviour: Is she beeing rude or not?

Yuta73

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Yuta73

先輩

Jericho Desu

七転八起

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

styuki

neologist

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

styuki

neologist

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

styuki

neologist

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

styuki

neologist

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

styuki

neologist

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

styuki

neologist

Yuta73

先輩

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