Italy is full of chinese "japanese restaurants" run by chinese people!

[ItalianDude]

This is one thing maybe you don't know: Italy, in the last 10 years, has been filled with self-declared "Japanese Restaurants".. the problem is that 99% of them are runned exclusevly by chinese people. Managers, waiters, cooks; everyone is chinese, but the restaurant is named "(random name) japanese (or sushi) restaurant". They exploit the fact that a lot of italian people don't even recognize japanese people from chinese people. They think they are eating in a japanese restaurant run by japanese workers using japanese products.. and none of those things is true!
I have nothing against China, but I'm sure no one in Italy would go to those restaurants if they knew the truth.

I know what japanese restaurants are *real* japanese restaurants in my city, and I never go in chinese "japanese restaurants".. but sadly I am an exception because almost everyone else automatically thinks that if a restaurant is named "japanese restaurants" and the personnel is asiatic, then it must be japanese.


Did you knew about that?
Is this acceptable in your opinion?
If not, what can we (italian people) do to stop this?

 

[Haruspex]

This is one thing maybe you don't know: Italy, in the last 10 years, has been filled with self-declared "Japanese Restaurants".. the problem is that 99% of them are runned exclusevly by chinese people. Managers, waiters, cooks; everyone is chinese, but the restaurant is named "(random name) japanese (or sushi) restaurant". They exploit the fact that a lot of italian people don't even recognize japanese people from chinese people. They think they are eating in a japanese restaurant run by japanese workers using japanese products.. and none of those things is true!
I have nothing against China, but I'm sure no one in Italy would go to those restaurants if they knew the truth.

I know what japanese restaurants are *real* japanese restaurants in my city, and I never go in chinese "japanese restaurants".. but sadly I am an exception because almost everyone else automatically thinks that if a restaurant is named "japanese restaurants" and the personnel is asiatic, then it must be japanese.


Did you knew about that?
Is this acceptable in your opinion?
If not, what can we (italian people) do to stop this?

A Japanese recipe is Japanese to the extent that it had been observed. The fact that something is made by Chinese people, using ingredients that originated from China means nothing. If those places are making sushi or whatever else just the same way Japanese people would, I see no issue.

 

[ItalianDude]

Do Yakuza and Japanese Government know about this?

 

[Ashikaga]

My hometown is littered with Mcdonald's restaurants. I don't think I am the only one who thinks "AMERICAN" when he hears words like burgers, fries and chicken nuggets. I mean, what could be more American than good old burgers and fries? And in a restaurant with a name like McDonald's, I expect to be served REAL American food made with REAL American ingredients made by REAL American people. Sadly, almost all the workers at these restaurants, from the burger microwaver guy to the fryolator girl, are Japanese.

I don't know just how many Japanese who eat at these restaurants are aware of this. I don't think this kind of practice is acceptable.

Italian Dude, I believe you people should boycott all them fake Japanese restaurants. I have stopped giving my business to any ethnic restaurants in Japan (Italian, French, Mexican, Spanish, Chinese... you name it) that trick innocent, if naive, diners into thinking what they are eating is the real thing prepared and served by people from those countries whose names are proudly displayed on their store-front signages ("本場イタリアの味！", "本格中華の店！") when all one has to do is just walk in the front door and look at all the Japanese wait staff to know that it is not the case. I am fed up with this! Thank you for bringing this up.



Note : This thread has been moved to Chit Chat .

 

[ItalianDude]

ASHIKAGA, the hyronical mood of your post make me think you want to tag me like a racist or something like that.

But your comparation (McDonalds in Japan = chinese "japanese restaurants" in Italy) made me think you completely missed my point: McDonald is a big company present in every corner of the world, and everyone knows they are eating the same stuff and the employes are of every ethnic origin.

But I don't think you'd be happy if, going to a polinesian restaurant, you saw only italian workers, importing all food from Germany, for example.

My point is: I live in Italy, and here the 99.9% of people are not able to catch the difference between chinese and japanese people just looking/talking at them.
This is a serious thing IMO, and it may cause problems to japanese restaurants reputation.


PS: btw, cool avatar

 

[Jericho Desu]

Let me ask you something, do you think theres a major difference between eating Japanese food made by a Japanese person and eating Japanese food made by a Chinese person? If that Japanese person was a crap cook but because they are Japanese there food would be more "authentic" would that override the Japanese food made by a Chinese person who was a much better cook?

You say people in Italy can't catch the difference between the Chinese and the Japanese... and? If the people enjoyed their meal what does it matter if they thought that it was completely Japanese owned but is actually Chinese owned?

In London where I live its like that EVERYWHERE, we have Chinese/Koreans/Japanese working in almost any "comes from the east" type of restaurant and even though I thought it was strange before I realised it makes sense, these people just want a job and as long as they do what their supposed to then that's all that matters.

In more simpler words, grow up.

 

[ItalianDude]

grow up.

Jericho Desu, if someone opinion is different from your I don't think this mean you are free to insult him. I reported your post.

And, about the rest of the post, I think that living in London you are not aware of how much beautiful an ethnic restaurant could become if owned and managed by people who really know and feel what they are putting on your plate and all around you.. it's all about a lot of very little things that all together create a gestaltic armony.
Maybe I'm wrong, but in this case you miss something.

 

[Davey]

Same in the Netherlands.

Nothing wrong with it I think, although it's more a mix of Japanese and Chinese than really Japanese. I went to this Japanese restaurant they other day, which was very nice. But they had Yaki udong instead of Udon.

I guess it's the same in other countries, Chinese running Japanese restaurants. Japanese food is getting more and more popular and there are more Chinese than Japanese living in most countries.

 

[Jericho Desu]

Jericho Desu, if someone opinion is different from your I don't think this mean you are free to insult him. I reported your post.
And, about the rest of the post, I think that living in London you are not aware of how much beautiful an ethnic restaurant could become if owned and managed by people who really know and feel what they are putting on your plate and all around you.. it's all about a lot of very little things that all together create a gestaltic armony.
Maybe I'm wrong, but in this case you miss something.

Wow you reported my post? *cries*

Anyway if I want a truly "ethnic" restaurant yadda yadda then I would have to go to the actually country itself and even then it doesn't mean you'd get what you'd expect since humans being what they are are all different you'd get difference results no matter where you'd go. What I'm saying is don't build up this thing in your head where you expect things to be a certain way and if its not then its wrong, because thats not how it works most of the time.

 

[undrentide]

To me Japanese restaurants run by non-Japanese people have no problem as far as they serve Japanese food. As Jericho mentioned, if one wants authentic xxxxx (apply any country's name) using the ingredients from the country and cooked by the people from that country, one has to travel to that country!

But I also think that ItalianDude's post has some points; I often hear from Japanese people who travelled abroad and missed Japanese food. They found Japanese restaurants and sometimes they got a surprise (whose another name is "disappointment") to see that some restaurants serve dishes which can be anything but Japanese!
Of course, that happens not only Japanese restaurants but any country's cuisine, but the point is, it is a bit sad if such dishes are recognized as "typical Japanese food" by the local people who have never tried real Japanese food before.

Ingredients used for Japanese cooking are not always available any place in the world, so sometimes something is missing or replaced by something similar, that should be OK and to be accepted (to a certain extent).

 

[ItalianDude]

Wow you reported my post? *cries*

Again, looks like your public "open mindedness" strongly contrast with your aggressivity towards people who don't think like you.

As others mentioned, the differences between a real japanese restaurant and a (random nation)ese one are not exactly something "built up in our heads".

 

[Jericho Desu]

Again, looks like your public "open mindedness" strongly contrast with your aggressivity towards people who don't think like you.
As others mentioned, the differences between a real japanese restaurant and a (random nation)ese one are not exactly something "built up in our heads".

"aggressivity towards people who don't think like you" is it? Wow you know me so well! Your quite the over-sensitive type aren't you?

It seems you didn't read my post carefully, I never said there wasn't a difference between a Japanese restaurant and say a Chinese one, what I'm saying is that for some people they have a very specific idea of what it means for something to be "authentic" and it doesn't usually turn out to be that way.

 

[Trollhattan]

I frequent Japanese restaurants for many years,have seen Hispanic teppan cook ( in one fancy native Japanese-owned restaurant in an affluent town ) and Vietnamese sushi chefs in the US.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

My point is: I live in Italy, and here the 99.9% of people are not able to catch the difference between chinese and japanese people just looking/talking at them.

It's not possible for anyone to tell the difference between a Chinese person and a Japanese person just by looking, just as it's not possible to tell the difference between an Italian person and a British person just by looking. Even talking to someone isn't necessarily going to give it away, unless they tell you outright.

I think that living in London you are not aware of how much beautiful an ethnic restaurant could become if owned and managed by people who really know and feel what they are putting on your plate and all around you.

What on Earth has living in London got to do with it? 40% of London's population belongs to an ethnic minority group. 30% were born outside the UK, compared to only 20% of New Yorkers born outside the US. If any city is likely to understand ethnic cuisine, surely London is as good as any.

My favourite Indian restaurant is owned by a Pakistani, has an Iranian waiter and a white British delivery driver. They serve balti and cobra beer and it tastes great. What more could I want?

 

[ItalianDude]

It's not possible for anyone to tell the difference between a Chinese person and a Japanese person just by looking, just as it's not possible to tell the difference between an Italian person and a British person just by looking. Even talking to someone isn't necessarily going to give it away, unless they tell you outright.

This is exactly what those restaurants owner are exploiting in Italy.
There are no indian restaurants with 100% chinese employees, no french restaurants with 100% chinese employees, no greek cuisine restaurants with 100% chinese employees, no spanish bars with 100% chinese employees.. and so on.
But it's plenty of japanese restaurants with 100% chinese employees.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

But it's plenty of japanese restaurants with 100% chinese employees.

But what exactly is it that you're objecting to? If they serve sushi, soba, udon, tempura etc, then it's a Japanese restaurant. If you object to the restaurant solely because they employ Chinese people then you are being racist. I don't know what the law is in Italy, but in the UK, a restaurant (or any other company) would be breaking the law if it chose its employees based on race.

Actually, even if the food is Japanese, how Japanese is it? Udon, ramen and gyoza were brought from China. Tempura was introduced by the Portuguese in the 16th century.

Like anything else cultural, it's a complex issue, which you are oversimplifying.

 

[ItalianDude]

Tsuyoiko, I think it's obvious what I'm objecting to.

Does loving Japan culture and food more than a lot of countries' (including China) makes me a racist?
If it does, than I'm happy to be what you call a "racist".

And if you think that the cultural issue is complex at the point that cultures don't really exist anymore, then you and I have totally different views about this subject.

 

[Davey]

I don't get it....

What's the big thing about some Chinese people that have Japanese restaurants??? I'm pretty sure that there are French restaurants with no French people working in it, Dutch restaurants with no dutch working in it etc...


The topic is interesting, though. How about other countries? Do you have a lot of Japanese restaurants with no Japanese working in it?

 

[ItalianDude]

I don't get it....
What's the big thing about some Chinese people that have Japanese restaurants??? I'm pretty sure that there are French restaurants with no French people working in it, Dutch restaurants with no dutch working in it etc...

No doubt about it, my concern is caused by the fact that in the last 10 years (and actually) in my city opened a lot of new "japanese" restaurants and sushi bars and *all!* of them are 100% run by chinese. Not a single japanese among their personnel. And not a single italian, dutch, german.. as well.
There currently are only two real japanese restaurants with japanese workers, and my favourite one closed two years ago.. maybe this has nothing to with this, but now there is actually only one place where I know I can eat sushi directly prepared by a japanese sushi master.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Tsuyoiko, I think it's obvious what I'm objecting to.

If it was obvious then I wouldn't need to ask.

You seem to be objecting to the fact that Chinese people are running Japanese restaurants. If your objection is based solely on the fact that they are Chinese then it's racism. If your objection is based on something else, then please be clear on what that is. Other than the race of the employees, what is wrong with these restaurants?

And if you think that the cultural issue is complex at the point that cultures don't really exist anymore, then you and I have totally different views about this subject.

When I said you're oversimplifying I meant that culture has to do with a lot more than country of origin.

now there is actually only one place where I know I can eat sushi directly prepared by a japanese sushi master.

Does the fact that he's Japanese automatically make him better at preparing sushi?

Actually, I just realised something else. How do you know the employees of these restaurants are 100% Chinese? Do you have access to their personnel records or something?

 

[ItalianDude]

Tsuyoiko, nothing automatically makes a person better or not at preparing sushi (or managing a restaurant or riding a bike or teaching pathologichal anathomy, etc).
But there are things that, in my opinion, will improve the mathematical probability of every condition to happen.
It's likely (in the "preparing sushi" condition):
- having done a professional sushi preparing school: +50%
- having done a professional sushi preparing school in Japan: +90%
- having lived in Japan and assimilated its culture and way of life: +50%
- loving Japan: +20%
- etc!
Just my guesses, I hope you got my point.

 

[Jericho Desu]

Ok hold on a minute, lets get one thing clear. Do you like the food you ate at these "Chinese Japanese" restaurants?

 

[Trollhattan]

Sushi became internationalized in the past 2 decades.For examples,California roll ( has avacado ) & Spider roll are non Japanese creations other than the name sushi and basic ingredients ( rice - nori - vinegar )

 

[ItalianDude]

Ok hold on a minute, lets get one thing clear. Do you like the food you ate at these "Chinese Japanese" restaurants?

I already wrote what my point is.
If it is not politically correct enough to not be labelled as "racist" by you then no problem but give me a break.

 

[Trollhattan]

American " Iron Chef " Bobby Flay challenges non-Japanese sushi master P. Yi