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Islam in Japan

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yes,indeed.So to the point is that whichever country we visit,we must really watch out for what we are saying,cause there's a saying in chinese called"trouble always comes out from the mouth",so beware...
 
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Eternal Wind said:
yes,indeed.So to the point is that whichever country we visit,we must really watch out for what we are saying,cause there's a saying in chinese called"troubles always comes out from the mouth",so beware...
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Point well taken.
 
as i know

Too little muslim in Japan, but we are in malaysia, islam is a major religion..I dunno how far muslim in japan life goes. how good is it? Junichiro koizumi should built more mosque for muslim, like us in Malaysia, no one can stop u from believe in any religion... Any one wanna know bout me in malaysia pls message me...
 
The Japanese government should not build a mosque unless it also plans to build a religious building for every other denomination on the globe. I believe religion should be a private affair - religion and politics and not very good bedfellows.
 
Mandylion said:
The Japanese government should not build a mosque unless it also plans to build a religious building for every other denomination on the globe. I believe religion should be a private affair - religion and politics and not very good bedfellows.
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My sentiments exactly.

But you're going to have to break the news delicately to the many officially Muslim countries in the Middle East.

I strongly oppose people who think that promotion of overtly religious beliefs or provision of religious facilities and buildings is the government's job.
I am even more strongly opposed to "religious law" of any form.
 
I'm pretty sure Indonesia (i'm not a 100% sure though, if it's not Indonesia it's one them countries around Indonesia) has the biggest muslim community in the world...there are also muslims in Thailand and lots of them in other Asian countries (like someone highlighted it, there are lots of them in China). There are none (or very few) in Japan (to my knowledge - but hey...what do I know i've never been there )...

As for the arabic language i think it's a REALLY EASY language to learn, i don't find the grammar difficult at all, there aren't lots of different tenses, once you know how to read it's all good. As for the pronounciation, i'll let you off for this one , but the only letters that "could" be difficult to pronounce
would be : ha ح , sad ص , thad ض , kaf ق , tha ظ , and rhain ع . That's about it....anyone interested in learning japanese AND arabic?
 
Farmad said:
There is no benefit outside of Islam, nor can there be any. To think of any benefit outside of Islam would mean to expect wine from a mirage.
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I'm sorry, you lost me after that point. I'm afraid a fair percent of the world would respectfully disagree with you. Islam may give you what you need from life, but other paths supply what others need. If the truth was so universal as to be understood by all, wouldn't there be only one faith?
 
First of all.. Im a non-believer. I dont belong to any religion, so dont think that im saying all this just cause my religion is way better than the others.

I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan. One of the main reasons to why i like Japan so much is cause its a almost 100% buddhist country. I really think that buddhism is the friendliest religion in the world. I really like it.. In fact, Buhddism is the only religion that i like.

Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)
..ya, maybe im generalising a little bit, but you see my point right?..

The usa vs iraq conflict is now all about islam vs christians, it was not like that from the start but it is now.
Imo, both the US goverment and the muslims should take a good look on buddhism, they could learn alot.

And I don't like how muslims thinks that people from other religions with diferent beliefs are wrong, dirty or missguided and calling them stuff like INFIDELS!
See what I mean?? ﾂｬﾂｬ

Im glad that Japan holds on to their religions and customs and i hope that they continue to do so.
 
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elwing said:
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really don't like their views on females.)
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You may check what a Japanese woman said about that, if you are interested in it just go to :

thetruereligion.org

and the rests are about wrong opinions about Islam
or you may browse the site by yourself if you need more,
by the way, have a nice day...
 
elwig said:
I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.
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Such religious totalitarianism should be left to the Saudis and their fanatic Wahhabi cohorts. I am in favor of religious liberty for all, although I agree with your sentiment that ...

elwig said:
Im glad that Japan holds on to their religions and customs and i hope that they continue to do so.
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So do I.
 
elwing said:
I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.
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I reckon that mosques or churches should be held side by side as a demonstration of peace between religions.
Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really don't like their views on females.)
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Don't be shallow,, the number of Muslims around the world exceeds billions, and logically,, a small number of lunatics, to whom the media enjoys talking about, don't represent the remaining Muslims. Many innocents have been cruelly killed by those gangs, which is totally forbidden in Islam. A person who interacts with REAL Muslims would understand what I was saying. What can you do about few fanatics who misinterpret things and let others pay?

Furthermore, when Kosovo ppl were inhumanly assassinated by Serbian, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism at that time,, and when Jews had been cruelly killed by German, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism.. The point is Whether we like it or not,, fanaticism and terrorism are everywhere and before Bin Laden's gang exists

What a FEW Muslims do is really shameful, but we should be fair when we talk about a specific religion. Many Muslims are great and super friendly,, Anyway,, I don't like talking about religious things,,

What do you mean by this: [/B]
And I really don't like their views on females.)
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Greetings! :haihai:

AranzA said:
Don't be shallow,, the number of Muslims around the world exceeds billions, and logically,, a small number of lunatics, to whom the media enjoys talking about, don't represent the remaining Muslims.
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Approximately 1.3 billion Muslims. Most of these are fundamentalists. But only a small fraction are violent extremists. However, these extremists permeate the whole like holes in a sponge. This is why there is trouble almost everywhere where there are Muslims.

AranzA said:
Many innocents have been cruelly killed by those gangs, which is totally forbidden in Islam.
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Depends on the cause. Muslims are allowed to kill if it is for revenge for a PERCEIVED injustice or oppression.


AranzA said:
Furthermore, when Serbian inhumanly assassinated Kosovo ppl, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism at that time,, and when German had cruelly killed Jews, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism.
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Because religion was not involved with the killings, can you cite an example wherein a Christian quotes the bible while killing another person?

----------------------------------

Dear drag ,

drag_lp3 said:
Looking in the Koran, it offered that the sun revolves,
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Every cave dweller could see with their bare eyes that the sun appears to revolve...around the earth, that is. That was the general belief in the dark ages.

drag_lp3 said:
The word HADIYAH - meaning "Iron" - is being mentioned in the Koran "TWENTY-SIX TIMES". This is according to a British Muslim documentary. If we look into the Periodic Table, iron's atomic number is 26.
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Coincidence plain and simple. Other metals are mentioned in the Quran, too, like Gold & Iron. And their frequency of usage does not equate to any figure in the Periodic Table.

drag_lp3 said:
God said in the Koran, "I created the heavens in seven layers". Scientists analyzed the Earth's atmosphere and discovered that it comprises seven layers, including the ozone layer that filters the sun's ultraviolet rays.
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Take a look at this...

  • Quran 041.012 (YUSUFALI translation)

    "So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."

Do you still think that the Quran was referring to the 7 layers of the atmosphere? If you do, then please tell us which LOWER layer is adorned with lights.


drag_lp3 said:
Many people converted to Islam because of their taste of physical evidence
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Then those people have been mistaken in the physical evidence presented to them. For I have deeply examined this so-called evidence, and they are all flawed. As I have shown you above.

Peace.

-----------------------------

Hello Eternal Wind

Eternal Wind said:
Different people have their own right to choose what they believe, and I think that there is nothing wrong with it.
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One of the tricky issues with Islam is that it is so easy to get in, and it's complicated to get out. Especially if you live in a Muslim country or if your parents are Muslims. In many cases, the price for leaving Islam would be a death sentence or disownment by Muslim family members & friends.

For people considering converting to Islam, I suggest you look at both sides of the coin. Listen to both the people promoting the religion and the people who are against it.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
 
@ DoctorNO

I'm sorry to disappoint you , but the link you posted is a bullsh*t. The content is really silly and it's obvious that the author(s) aimed to distort the real image of Islam. Everything is awfully written. It's all WRONG. I really was trying to find anything correct concerning Islam on that site, but I failed to do so. Even the Holy Quran is awfully mistranslated. I have read the Quran all my life and I know what I窶冦 talking about It's funny that you believe whatever you read.. Any person can write any nonsense and make a website. This doesn't necessarily mean that whatever s/he says is correct. That's why we have brains to use,, you may read many different sources before making judgments. You may check out the following websites:

  • http://www.islamworld.net/
  • Understanding Islam – Explaining Islam in Light of the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ‎)

    [Please type terrorism in the empty box in the front page and check out the results You and others may post any question too]

  • Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran
    [this site might not be well designed, but it comprises well written content.]
There are loads of websites in the net, I chose those for coz of the lack of my time..


You may contact me, as well, at any time, and I'll be pleased to answer your questions and provide you, or anyone else, with the CORRECT and the TRUSTED answers..

It's true that some Muslims misinterpret Islam's values; they even hurt other Muslims like what happened recently in Saudi Arabia. But remember Muslims these days are not like Muslims before thousands years ago.

*sigh* I'm so sorry to be a little bit rude, but the website made me angry and I feel really sad when some ppl might think the way that you or others do. This is not supposed to happening.. Islam is Great and I'm proud to be a Muslim. Simultaneously, I'm terribly ashamed of those fake, stupid Muslims who try to ruin Islam's pure values..

I hope my English to be better than that..

Peace..
 
The real image of Islam today is not a very good sight. I am not surprised that you failed to find anything correct in that website for as a religious individual your mind has been conditioned to see nothing but wrong in anything that criticizes your spiritual beliefs. Right? But I wont be surprised either if you fail to prove that assertion. Talk is cheap my friend. Let窶冱 see if you are right in your assertion:


  • http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
    Why Mohammed was not a prophet:

    Yet Muhammad窶冱 life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children.

    He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia.
Those are according to historical records. Are you going to deny them? Tell me 窶忱es窶 or 窶從o窶? If you answered anything by 窶從o窶 then it would be safe to assume that you meant 窶忱es窶 and I would prove you wrong by posting the historical Islamic sources for those statements.


  • http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
    Why Quran is not from God:

    Muhammad produced no miracles and when pressed he claimed that his miracle is the Quran. Yet a cursory look at the Quran reveals that this book is full of errors. Quran is replete with scientific heresies, historic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical absurdities, grammatical errors and ethical fallacies.
The first statement alone was true and I doubt you would openly deny it. The rest I can discuss with you if you want and let the readers here decide who makes better sense between the two of us.
AranzA said:
Even the Holy Quran is awfully mistranslated.
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Awfully mistranslated? Have you even bothered to see who translated those? Here is the very first verse mentioned in that site:

  • Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
It was translated by the famous Muslim Scholar SHAKIR whose work is being used by millions of western muslims. His translation was on equal terms with Yusufali & Pickthal. Look here http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034


AranzA said:
I have read the Quran all my life and I know what I窶冦 talking about
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Not necessarily. You have been reading the Quran with the assumption that it came from God. Therefore your views are already biased. You may be wrong without realizing it.

AranzA said:
It's funny that you believe whatever you read.
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Doesn窶冲 that apply to you more than it does to any of us? You believe whatever you read in the quran. And then you are quick to blame me without any justification.

AranzA said:
Any person can write any nonsense and make a website.. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct. That's why we have brains to use,, you may read many different sources before making judgments.
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That applies to religion as well. Any person can write any nonsense and make it a religion. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct.

Those websites are like used-car-salesmen. They are telling you the things you want to hear just to sell you Islam. Which is why I advised the readers to listen to both sides of an issue. Listen to the good things and listen to the bad things. The best source for the bad things in Islam are from those who are FORMER MUSLIMS.

www.apostatesofislam.com

www.faithfreedom.org


AranzA said:
You may contact me, as well, at any time, be_mine3775@yahoo.com, and I'll be pleased to answer your questions and provide you, or anyone else, with the CORRECT and the TRUSTED answers..
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What you trust is not necessarily correct. Test your knowledge and reasoning against mine and let the readers decide. Lets do our discussion right here.

AranzA said:
It's true that some Muslims misinterpret Islam's values; they even hurt other Muslims like what happened recently in Saudi Arabia. But remember Muslims these days are not like Muslims before thousands years ago.
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Muslims thousands of years ago massacred and assassinated each other just the same. Three of your first four Caliphs, companions of Mohammed himself, has been slaughtered in cold blood. The kaabah was destroyed and rebuilt. The ummah in spain fell because of internal strife.

AranzA said:
*sigh* I窶冦 so sorry to be a little bit rude, but the website made me angry and I feel really sad when some ppl might think the way that you or others do.
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I understand. But you will not be able to think clearly if you let your emotions get the best of you.

AranzA said:
This is not supposed to happening.. Islam is Great and I窶冦 proud to be a Muslim. Simultaneously, I窶冦 terribly ashamed of those fake, stupid Muslims who try to ruin Islam窶冱 pure values..
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What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?

AranzA said:
I hope my English to be better than that..
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Your English is very good my friend.
 
hi all my name is ashraf and i'm from palestine, my religion is islam and her i want to put some commets at the member elwing words and to give the islamic point of view about what he said.
elwing said:
I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.
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from this i understand that you don't respect other religions, or you don't like differnces on this earth and how could life be if people don't listen to other point of views.
elwing said:
Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)
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war and terrorism have reasons you might be able to see these them or you might not, and i'm telling you 99% of these reasons are unknown. but media the greater black magician at this age can effect people by making the right wrong and the wrong right.
elwing said:
Imo, both the US goverment and the muslims should take a good look on buddhism, they could learn alot.
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i don't know about christianity, but about islam if there is any good thing that might be useful in any othe religion or culture sure there is no doubt to take it. and here i say what the quran says in al-zumar chapter: (Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding). translation of Yusuf Ali's.
elwing said:
And I don't like how muslims thinks that people from other religions with diferent beliefs are wrong, dirty or missguided and calling them stuff like INFIDELS!
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be sure the right has one face and the wrong has thousands of faces. then muslims doesn't say they dirty about other people and cultures (where did you get this from?! :? ). and they call them INFIDELS because if you received the message of islam, understood it and didn't belive it that means you have choosen the wrong side insted of the right one and it is true then to give you the name INFIDEL.
if you think this isn't right a small example might help you to understand.
imagine you are a student in some schools, and the teacher told you to do some homework, but you didn't do it. now if the teacher put your name in the list with students who didn't do the homework, now will that be right or wrong? equal or not?
 

By your logic it is perfectly ok to give you the name STUPID FOOL because you have recieved our message concerning the falsehood of islam and didnt believe it.

Remember the golden rule: Dont do unto others what you dont want others to do unto you.
 
it is not strange to hear this from agnostic thinker. but at least i understand what i'm saying about faces. and i don't think you got the ideam because if you did you would understand that there is one right and the other is wrong . and sure the one whose right will have proves with him.
 
Ash_s said:
it is not strange to hear this from agnostic thinker. but at least i understand what i'm saying about faces. and i don't think you got the ideam because if you did you would understand that there is one right and the other is wrong .
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You forgot the other possibility...

EVERYONE IS WRONG or UNCERTAIN.

Why should anyone believe Islam?

* It gives us nothing new.
* It contains as much weight in evil as good.
* It fails to prove the existence of God.
* It fails to prove that it came from God.
* It fails to produce a good society. No islamic society in all history could even come close to the glory & honor of Japan today. Japan that is populated by people that you muslims call INFIDELS.


Ash_s said:
and sure the one whose right will have proves with him.
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Unfortunately no muslim is able to prove anything. The islamic view is nothing but wishful thinking. Which in reality is more harmful than beneficial. Muslims rebel and divide nations. After they succeed they create a state that is even worst. Like in the case of India.
 
it seems that you like to quote alot, don't believe in every word i say, and want others to track every word you say to prove it is wrong in reality and in their believe. but at least i know you want proves that you can see or hear to believe that this thing is right or wrong. you need to see an apple in front of your eyes to belive it is existed there, eat it and forget about the tree that gave it to you. means you need to hear the God or see him by your eyes to believe in him, yes thats how it goes with you, and if i'm wrong then explain your point view and your believes about this life that might help others to know you better. not to keep quoting from this and that without knowledge.
let me show you how many mistakes you made by your opinions and facts. i will not start from the begining in the top, but from the last replay you did.
you say:
''You forgot the other possibility...
EVERYONE IS WRONG & UNCERTAIN''
here you are right if there is'nt any prove about something, so you don't need any microscope to prove it is in front of you. you say this to anyone whose lost don't know the right from the wrong.

you say: " It gives us nothing new"
you are here might be talking about particular things that doesn't change in islam as believes -and did a god send his religion to change it from time to time?!!!- and if you are talking about knowledge then the first word came down from god to muhammed (pbuh) is "read". and islam is the first religion who encourages his followers to seek knowledge and science. and if you don't know about history remember the greatest two civilizations on earth in the 1500, you may make a search online to see which ones they are. while europe was sleeping in dark ages or medieval (i think they called them like this), sure this isn't right at this time because of divisions, borders and bad leaders, but if they were one nation in one land and under one leader, without doubt the will be greater that western civilization in their knowledge and morals. if you have rally deep thinking as you call yourself (thinker) you will know:
a nation woithout morals will not live a long
a nation with morals without out science and tech is sick
a nation wothout both is dead.
this is just the first point you claimed it to be right. and i will come soon to show you how you write things you don't really know anything about.
 
In order to believe in something one or both conditions must be met.

  • 1. The object must be detectable by one of the five senses: Sight, Sound, Smell, Taste or Touch.

    Or

    2. The object or idea must be logically conclusive beyond the shadow of a doubt. For example I believe that AxB=6 because A=2 & B=3 and 2+2+2=6.
I am an agnostic. Im not saying that there is a God or that there is NO GOD. Regarding that issue we agnostics proudly say WE DON窶儺 KNOW. We just enjoy our lives and try to make the most out of it. I live an honest, just, & compassionate life because I enjoy living that way. If there is a good god out there im sure he would credit me for living an honorable life.

Ash_s said:
not to keep quoting from this and that without knowledge.
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I make sure that my knowledge is sufficient before arguing with anybody.

I said 窶徙r窶? not 窶彗nd窶? There is a difference. Anyway what I say applies to everyone who cant prove that their religion came from God. Whether Buddhists, Christians or Muslims. Each of them are truly uncertain and could be very much mistaken.

Wrong. Judaism has given that advise 1000 years before the birth of mohammed. Read窶ｦ

  • Proverbs 23:12
    Commit yourself to instruction; attune your ears to hear words of knowledge.

    Proverbs 8:10
    "Choose my instruction rather than silver, and knowledge over pure gold.

    Proverbs 8:12
    "I, Wisdom, live together with good judgment. I know where to discover knowledge and discernment.

    Proverbs 10:14
    Wise people treasure knowledge, but the babbling of a fool invites trouble.
As I said there is nothing new in Islam. Admit it, you have been sadly mistaken.

Islamic golden age owe its success to the Jews & Christians among their midst. But mostly from the Jews who knew how to govern people. Muslim Spain started to collapse when it started to persecute its jewish populace.


What is your point. Japan has far more morals and science than any Islamic nation on earth. Japan doesn窶冲 need Islam.
 
i'm still not going to skip the question. you said:
"It contains as much weight in evil as good"
when you hear news on T.V., read newspaper, or listen to radio you will hear muslims killed a man, muslims destroyed this and that, muslims are violents and things like this, and usually media doesn't give except the the bad image of islam (as they like to call it), forget to give reasons and what the other side is doing, by other words:
if a modrenized country killed a muslim, then it's ok nobody give any attention.
when a muslim kills modernized peron or people, oh it's a barbaric thing it is not acceptable everywhere. the next day media will put this news in the begining, and not to forget to link it to islam whatever it was right or wrong.
the best example for this is what happened in 9/11 when all the world heard about athe attack in newyork, i think about 2900 people were killed there. this thing is even forbidden and it is a sin to do it in islam, we everyday hear this and that linking it to islam, just because a group call themselves muslims did it. and now i'm asking you did you know how many iraqis killed in america's war there? or how many plastinians and is, maybe few people heard that more than 20,000 iraqis were killed, most of them are innocent people women, elder, even childs. another example is palestine, 3,000 palestinians were killed then they call resistance men terrorists. did the world know about this thing? or the black magic closed both their eyes and minds. that shows there is no justice in this world and we don't expect to see it from any human, that doesn't accept but just from God. did any country in the united nations said anything about this, then they are partners in these kinds of crimes and really time went as the strong lives and the weak dies.

when you hear about these things that muslims did, you first must know first what islam says at this point, second if they were really muslims you should know why?

and with few words about your last comments.
you gave 2 major ways how to believe in something. and i say islam has both ways to give you proves.
you said: "I said 窶徙r窶 not 窶彗nd窶? " in this i maybe made a mistake, but i always read this (&) as an and.
you are right about this "Anyway what I say applies to everyone who cant prove that their religion came from God"
and by logic God can't send a religion without prove, otherwise how people will believe.
i'm wrong to say this "islam is the first religion who encourages his followers to seek knowledge and science" if it depends on time of words, but we should know who taught europe the knowledge of science, chemistry, math and geography. the religion is not just a word, but it is work too.

then you say: "Islamic golden age owe its success to the Jews & Christians" and i wonder why should it, did jews and christians share muslims in ruling the land? or taught them how to? if you have anything about it say it.

at last "we agnostics proudly say WE DON窶儺 KNOW" and you really want to enjoy this and having good characteristics(honest, just, & compassionate) then you expect if there is a God to credit you for your characteristics, without asking yourself if there is a God why he created me, put me there and did he leave me alone without sending anything to me (whatever was the way).
my friend you just want to take not to give.
 
Persuant to the fourth section of the Forum Rules, please bring this thread back around to address Islam in Japan, not Islam in general, or this thread will be locked.
 
Finally I got some time to reply to your post. I barely have time to scratch my head. This post as you see is very long, so if you are going to read it from the monitor, don窶冲 forget to blink


----------------------

Are you expecting from the billion of Muslims either now or who lived before thousand of years ago to follow someone is cruel like what you just described? Do you think I would like to follow and believe someone like that? Of course NOT. What historical evidence do you have? How come Muslims before thousands of years ago and the non believers who converted to Islam had no idea about your evidence. Are you saying that the holy Qur窶兮an which was exist before thousands of years ago, Sunna and Seera (biography), which was written by the ppl who lived with the Prophet Mohammed and recorded his behavors and sayings are all wrong? You may post whatever you want and I may disapprove them as well


Islam and Slavery:

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/3.htm#r1

Few Evidence from Qur'aan:

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)

5:89 Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a Slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.


Al-Mujadilah (The Disputation)


58:3 But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered,- (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
------------------------------




Proofs Of The Prophethood Of Mohammed

You know that the prophet Mohammed was Illiterate. How could he write an entire book, Qur'aan which has no grammatical errors. Notice that Arabs were famous for their good style of writing and they even couldn't write similar verses like the ones in the Qur'aan. Besides, there are many miracles have been witnessed by audince such as the moon split. What about his ascent to heaven, was from Masjid al-Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, in other words from Mecca to Jerusalem. When non believers asked him to describe al Aqsa mosque to believe him, how could the Prophet exactly explain the place in details? I dare you find one error in the Qur'aan.


Beating Women in Islam:

One of the most controversial issues in Islam is the Qur窶兮an窶冱 authorization for husbands to beat disobedient wives. This is found in Chapter4, called 窶弩omen窶? verse 34. Note that wife beating is not in the Islamic society, it is a common occurrence throughout the entire world. Some cultures accept it more readily than others. However, Islam accepts the practice to an extent that Muslim societies do not see it as a problem.

I窶冤l illustrate two translations of the verse 34. There are many translations, but I chose those two [notice that I have carefully chosen translations that match the original source] :

[1]
窶廴en are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, an because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband窶冱) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part your fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them ( lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).窶

[2]
窶廴en are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.窶

Analysis:

It窶冱 mentioned above that the beating should be light. You might say beating in general is supposed to be painful, otherwise it won窶冲 be called beating. Plz read the following:

The Qur窶兮an lists a progression of steps to be used in dealing with a rebellious wife:

[A] Admonition and advice, by explaining the unlawfulness of rebellion, its harmful effect on married life, and by listening to her viewpoint on the matter.

If admonition is ineffectual, he keeps from her by not sleeping in bed with her, by which both learn the degree to which they need each other.

[C] If keeping from her is ineffectual, it is permissible for him to hit her if he believes that hitting her will bring her back to permissible. His hitting her may not be in a way that injures her, and is his last resource to save the family.

[D] If the disagreement does not end after all this, each partner chooses an arbitrator to solve the dispute by settlement, or divorce.

According to the Hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim, on the authority of Jabir, who had quoted the Prophet as saying in his farewell pilgrimage: 窶廣nd fear Allah in women, for they are your aides, and their duties towards you is that your beds should not be shared with someone you dislike.

The question is, is this happening in the real world? Are husbands following that. Unfortunately, the answer is no. Many women around the glob suffer from abusing. Husbands either misunderstand the previous verses that talks about how to treat a disobedient wife and use it as a license for abuse.
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Not necessarily. You have been reading the Quran with the assumption that it came from God. Therefore your views are already biased. You may be wrong without realizing it.
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Naturally like everybody else, I窶冦 biosed to my religion. However, this doesn窶冲 mean that I窶冦 not reading about the other side as well.

Doesn窶冲 that apply to you more than it does to any of us? You believe whatever you read in the quran. And then you are quick to blame me without any justification.
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I'm a Muslim, but I'd like to read about other religions as well. The more I read about other religions, the stronger my faith becomes..

That applies to religion as well. Any person can write any nonsense and make it a religion. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct.
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This applies to your nonsense as well.


Used-car-salesmen!? Is that what you call a website that illustrates a religion窶冱 values. If I posted links referring to websites such as about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. What do you expect to read. You tell me.

What you trust is not necessarily correct. Test your knowledge and reasoning against mine and let the readers decide.
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That's why we have brains.. I have read many sources and I'm still convinced with my values no matter what you are going to claim

Lets do our discussion right here.
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No Problem


I'll comment on this later..


The Qur窶兮an

The Qur窶兮an, the last revealed word of God (Allah), is the primary source of every Muslim窶冱 faith and practice. It deals with all the subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions, law, etc., but the basic theme is the relationship between Allah and His creatures. At the same time it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system.

The Qur窶兮an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad in Arabic language, so any Qur窶兮anic translation, either in English or any other language, is neither a Qur窶兮an, or a version of the Qur窶兮an. It is rather only a translation of the meaning of the Qur窶兮an. The Qur窶兮an exist only in Arabic in which it revealed.

Comment: Qur窶兮an has various hidden meanings and every time I read it, I discover new things which I haven窶冲 realized before. So, no matter what translation you have between your hands, no one can perfectly translate it. That窶冱 why ppl who convert to Islam prefer to learn Arabic to understand the real values of Islam. So, logically you want me to doubt the original holy book which was inherited before thousands of years ago and believe a person came from no where?!! You are saying that all the billion of Muslims are mistaken and your guy and his followers are right? I don窶冲 think so Besides, I have read most of the content of the website which is written by him and once again it窶冱 all crap. Plus, I checked and registered to the forum as well. You know what? Most of the members are totally rude and narrow minded and have no idea how to debate peacefully. I can understand now what type of ppl are following your guy

The reason I disapprove the translation in the site that you previously offered is that it窶冱 either doesn窶冲 match the original source, which is followed by the billions of Muslims, or the translation is incomplete.


What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?
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The question is back to you,, What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?



Finally, I'd like to say that Islam teaches that out Creator has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves for ponder, to question and to reflect.

Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose. Even when a person is faced with truth, there is no compulsion upon him to embrace it.

but before you begin to form an opinion about Islam, ask yourself whether your existing knowledge about it is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have been probably been exposed to only random glimpses of Islamic writings and have yet to reason out on Islam objectively and systematically themselves.

You should find out for yourself about Islam from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach of truth.

Okay, my dear buddy.. that窶冱 all for now even though I need to write more at some parts

God, I can窶冲 feel my fingers,, I typed too much this time.. but I feel good after all. Now I can find some time for focusing on my final project
So, take care and let me hear from ya..


Peace

AranzA
 
As it seems everyone has had their say, I am going to close this thread. It has gone too far off-topic.
 
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