Is US entering Japan's nightmare?

[Astroboy]

Lehman face failure, and WHO's NEXT?

As Lehman Brothers Holdings stared failure in the face on Sunday, anxiety intensified about the health of several other big U.S. financial institutions.

Merrill is in merger talks with Bank of America, the Wall Street Journal said on Sunday, citing people familiar with the matter.

Nouriel Roubini, a New York University economics professor who predicted the U.S. housing crisis, said the government lacks the wherewithal to step in every time a big financial firm fails. "I don't see any simple solution to this mess," he said.

One after another failure ..... The second stage of US subprime mess has just begun, I think. And I am experiencing Déjà vu in viewing this.

 

[Dogen Z]

Not to worry, Bernanke and Paulson are on top of this. They won't let it get too bad--afterall, they bailed out Fannie and Freddie, which I think was the right thing to do. Lehman Bros.--meh.

But it's interesting that Bank of America is buying Merrill. Since Merril and Mizuho are working together in Japan, does this mean that BOA & Mizuho are partners? Didn't Mizuho just invest a couple of billion $ in Merrill this year? How will this play out?
How will this affect the global economy, which is already heading into a recession? Not a soft landing, at all.

Is time to try a new economic model, one not based on greed and desire?

How about Buddhist Economics? See this article Give Buddhist economics a try

But if the U.S. economy tanks and the U.S.$ goes down the toilet, I have dibs on Google, Apple, and the NY Mets.

 

[Astroboy]

Not to worry, Bernanke and Paulson are on top of this. They won't let it get too bad--afterall, they bailed out Fannie and Freddie, which I think was the right thing to do. Lehman Bros.--meh.
But it's interesting that Bank of America is buying Merrill. Since Merril and Mizuho are working together in Japan, does this mean that BOA & Mizuho are partners? Didn't Mizuho just invest a couple of billion $ in Merrill this year? How will this play out?
How will this affect the global economy, which is already heading into a recession? Not a soft landing, at all.
Is time to try a new economic model, one not based on greed and desire?
How about Buddhist Economics? See this article Give Buddhist economics a try
But if the U.S. economy tanks and the U.S.$ goes down the toilet, I have dibs on Google, Apple, and the NY Mets.

Bernanke .... he studied a lot of Japan's lost decade, but so far US economy is likely to follow J-path exactly.... It is the time for USA to implment what it learned from Japan, not just learning ! Otherwise, Japan and rest of the world will be affected again !

Or Shall we despatch Mr Heizo Takenaka to undertake it?

 

[Pachipro]

Much of what I have been predicting this year has come true today with the demise of Lehman Brothers and Merril Lynch which is being taken over by Bank of America.

U.S. Stocks Fall Most Since 9/11 as Lehman, AIG Stoke Global Credit Crisis

Goldman, JPMorgan Are Seeking to Arrange $75 Billion in Financing for AIG

Lehman Files for Record Bankruptcy, Victim of Meltdown Firm Helped Create and this is not good because many banks have alot of exposure in Lehman. Therefore, expect more than a handful of banks to fail within the coming months.

Bank of America Agrees to Buy Merrill for $50 Billion After Shares Plunge

Today, the face of Wall Street has been changed forever. And this is just the beginning of the bloodshed as it will get much worse before it all settles down in a year or so. It will be a very rocky road in the months ahead. Things will seem to calm down a bit as we are heading for a presidential election, but after the election? All hell will break loose. The dollar will continue to get weaker, stocks will fall further, foreclosurers will accellerate as housing prices continue to tumble and many losing their jobs.

And to add more salt to the wound, Hewlett-Packard to Cut 24,600 Jobs After EDS Deal, Sees $1.7 Billion Cost with half of the jobs being in the US!

None of this bodes well for the US in the future as the majority of people are basically broke and have no savings and they will be unable to get credit in the near future as the spigots are being closed. Also, since the GDP of the US is 75% dependent of consumer spending, I don't see how the economy can survive without a depression/major recession as we are already in a recession and have been for some time. It's just that the media were unable to mention the dreaded "R" word.

Because of this turmoil today the yen had it's largest one day increase vs the US$ in 9 years!

And it all started with banks lending as much as anybody wanted to anybody who asked and allowing anyone with a pulse to purchase a home in order to keep afloat a faltering economy that has been hurting since 2001. Massive amounts of mortgages were then sliced and diced, bundled up into basically worthless securities if the housing market crashed, and sold to foreign companies and countries.

The blame lies clearly at the feet of the Federal Reserve and Alan Greenspan for implimenting this and the repurcussions will be felt in every country and economy of the world. Get ready for a wild ride.

 

[Pachipro]

Well, the government DID step in, but not to help. Instead of aiding the average citizen they have just recommended a bailout of Wall Street to the tune of $700billion+ that will be paid for by the taxpayers and with what? Money that is inputed into a computer out of thin air with nothing to back it up except the hard earned dollars of the average working stiff working two jobs to feed his/her/their family. And to save other countries losses from the subprime mess and to falsly protect the US$, they have loaned an additional $30 billion to the Central Banks of foreign countries including Japan or they would probably stop funding our debt and refuse to buy treasuries and/or sell them en masse.

Therefore, all this bad debt of banks and brokerage houses will be wiped off their books and the average American will get to pay for it at the expense of schools, roads, infrastructure, etc., etc. And the average dumbed-downed American has no idea what is going on. In fact, most, unbelievably, think it is a good thing to stave off a recession just as the controlled media tells them on TV and in newspapers.

$700billion is not nearly enough to cover this greed and mess. $3 trillion is more like it. But where will the money come from? The US doesn't have any and is in debt to the tune of $9,000,000,000,000. Therefore, what cannot be paid, won't be paid. Plain and simple and the rest of the world's economies will be taken down together.

The congress may be questioning Bernanke and Paulson today, but it will be passed, no questions asked. It is all a dog and pony show to make the american people believe the congress is doing something when all they are doing is what they are told to do.

A newsletter I subscribe to says it best:

On the evening of September 18th 2008, the American democratic system was replaced by a financial dictatorship.

What was billed as a "Federal Bailout" was nothing less than a bloodless coup. The Wall Street Gang had taken over the White House and control of Washington. Congress promised not to resist, and pledged to pass legislation as demanded.

Warning that America's financial system was perilously close to collapse unless immediate action was taken, economic martial law was declared.

The American people were told that from this day forward, they would be responsible for paying off the bad debt from any failing private financial enterprise deemed "too big to fail."

In simple language, with cameras rolling, in broad daylight, the American public was robbed blind. This wasn't a magic show. There were no hidden tricks or sleights of hand. "We want this to be clean, we want this to be quick," demanded the Economic Czar. "We need to get this done quickly, and the cleaner the better," intoned President Bush, with the urgency of his "smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud" logic he used as a pretext to invade Iraq.

"The risk of not acting would be far higher," Bush said, promising to "work with Congress to get a bill done quickly."

Having accurately forecast the current financial debacle, we confidently now forecast that taking swift action will prove - as it did in Iraq - far more catastrophic than allowing Wall Street to suffer the consequences of its greed and mismanagement.

Presidential candidate Barack Obama promised to "fully support" the plan and called on Congress to take "immediate action." Republican challenger John McCain said he would further review the proposal before passing judgment while Congressional leaders from both parties have signed on with their support.

Americans were told they would have to pay to rescue the very companies whose unregulated greed, fraud and recklessness had created the crisis in the first place. Considered nobodies by the authorities, the people had no voice and had no choice.

"I know of nobody who is arguing over the amount of money or even about that the secretary ought to have the authority to purchase these toxic instruments, these bad debts,'' bowed Senator Christopher Dodd, the Democratic chairman of the Banking Committee.

Quoted from Trends Research Journal Sept 22, 2008

We are screwed, socialism has taken hold, and America will NEVER be the same from this year onward.

 

[Astroboy]

During the lost decade after the bubble burst, Japan disposed some $1 trillion at end of the day. Considering US economy scale, $700 billion+ must not be a big issue, I hope.

But from my perspective, USA is moving faster than Europe as European banks so far continue to hide increasing bad loans. But soon or later they will not be able to keep hiding as they will suffer from more bad loan. European banks must be worse than USA.

Japanse financial firms must have accepted Japan premium - some 1% higher interest rate than US/EU banks in interbank market - as Japanese banks were assumed to hide bad loans. Today European premium or US premium is occurring as European banks/US banks are more risky today.

 

[Pachipro]

But as I said above, the true figure will probably turn out to be $3 Trillion as when does the government ever say the true cost of something such as inflation, unemployment, CPI, deficits, etc as they are always revised upward later on? Never.

 

[Astroboy]

as they are always revised upward later on.

True, but let's keep hope.

 

[hsakakibara1]

The "Japanese nightmare" is a dream compared to what is happening in the US right now. It is ugly here.

 

[Gackt21]

Total value loss tops $1 trillion !
Crisis wipes $1 trillion from financial stocks
Monday July 7, 4:57 pm ET
By Joe Bel Bruno, AP Business Writer
Concerns about credit, housing wipe $1.3 trillion from S&P 500's financial companies in 2008
NEW YORK -- U.S. financial companies have lost more than $1 trillion in value this year, and yet another decline on Monday shows concerns aren't going away soon.
Source: Yahoo Finance - Stock Market Live, Quotes, Business & Finance News

Well you make bad loans, so that people who can't afford a home get one then the people have to pay for it, through tax dollars. The Government wants everyone to be equal. (Does that sound like the United States of America to anyone?) What I know the USA to be is you get a job to pay for the home and you get the home that fits your pay check.

Hollywood ....
* " There is no business like show business " starred Marilyn Monroe

Hollywood is full of drones. They are not that smart, except for a few.
You will understand one day when we and if we get Barak Obama. I will stay out of that though.

During the lost decade after the bubble burst, Japan disposed some $1 trillion at end of the day. Considering US economy scale, $700 billion+ must not be a big issue, I hope.
But from my perspective, USA is moving faster than Europe as European banks so far continue to hide increasing bad loans. But soon or later they will not be able to keep hiding as they will suffer from more bad loan. European banks must be worse than USA.
Japanse financial firms must have accepted Japan premium - some 1% higher interest rate than US/EU banks in interbank market - as Japanese banks were assumed to hide bad loans. Today European premium or US premium is occurring as European banks/US banks are more risky today.

With the bail out the United States will just get worse. I think those banks that did that with the bad loans should tank and the banks that did not, should stay in business. This is how the free market works.

 

[Pachipro]

With the bail out the United States will just get worse. I think those banks that did that with the bad loans should tank and the banks that did not, should stay in business. This is how the free market works.

And far worse than any one can ever imagine.

Correction. It's how free markets USED to work up until recently. It will never be the same. I have a strange feling that if the country of Iceland does indeed declare bankruptcy, major countries of the world will soon follow like falling dominoes. Iceland, being a very small country, will be the test case. If they succeed, others will follow because the central banks are startiung to take control of major financial institutions. Once you control the money of a country the rest becomes a piece of cake.

In the words of Mayer Rothschild, who initiated the first central bank in England, ﾂ"Permit me to control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.ﾂ" – Mayer Rothschild, Patriarch of the Rothschild family who initiated the first central bank in England after he started a rumor about the war with Napoleon and the stock market tanked. He then went in and bought up the entire English stock market.

ﾂ"I sincerely believe that banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.ﾂ"

The major industrial countries are starting to consolidate by "buying shares" in major banks. However, one knows that those with the most shares, owns and controls the company and can dictate whatever they want. The noose is slowly being tightened.

 

[Pachipro]

To quote from the Daily Pfennig, a daily newsletter from an online bank I utilize I quote the following:

One of my fave economists, Nouriel Roubini, said in interview that he believed the Fed was going to have to move rates to zero! That's a big fat goose egg folks! Wow! What country does this all remind you of? Come on, you know what I'm referring to here, as I keep bringing this up over and over again... Oh, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so... (my good friend, and big fan of the 80's, Rick, tells me that song was by the Vapors)

Let me add up the facts here... A collapsing stock market, check. Falling bond yields, check. Economic stimulus packages, check. Bailouts, check. Dire times for the economy, check. A Central Bank that believes cutting interest rates to near zero is the right thing to do, check, and checkmate! Which country was I talking about there? The U.S. or Japan in the 90's? Oh, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so! This all reminds me of those Memorex commercials... Remember? "Is it live or Memorex?" Is this Japan or U.S.?

Is it really "checkmate" or is history repeating itself and will the US be able to come out of this and survive as Japan did?

 

[Astroboy]

To quote from the Daily Pfennig, a daily newsletter from an online bank I utilize I quote the following:

Is it really "checkmate" or is history repeating itself and will the US be able to come out of this and survive as Japan did?

After all, the rest of the world was one lap behind Japan ......

 

[Dogen Z]

Return of protectionism

After Obama takes office (yay! ), the U.S. will become more protectionist as a matter of self preservation. Consequently, demand from Japan's major export market will soften hindering Japan's chance to grow out of it's economic doldrom. Emerging markets might be a new source of opportunity but the global recession will slow growth there, too. I think it will be a long economic winter--but maybe that's a good thing. The world's economy needs major rebalancing and less CO2 emissions.

 

[caster51]

19th Apr, 1995, 1$=80yen.
1996,In closing of accounts,
the Jpanese export companies has raised a profit more than before.
The amount of export has decreased certainly by strong of the yen.
The exporting company digested the amount domestically.
Import raw material by appreciation of the yen and semifinished cost reduction,and The export expenditure doesn't hang in the domestic sale.
As a result, competitive edge adheres further and the rate of profit has
improved. Appreciation of the yen is a splendid chance for the export industry.
The purpose of the exporting company's looking embarrassed at appreciation of the yen is to restrain the labor union that doesn't understand a global, economic principle so much.
stock is going down.. why is yen strong?

.

Is US entering Japan's nightmare?

It might be
However, politics as the world center is not changed..
US has a responsibility that the recession is changed into the boom.
the method is .....you know..

After Obama takes office,,,,,,,,

I think Obama can not be...as a Commander-in-chief.
If the American is not foolish, next is McCain

 

[Adulado]

I recommend watching a documentary called Zeitgeist and others related to Freemasonry, Illuminati, New World Order and the sort. They talk about how US and UK are governed by bunch of crooks belonging to secret societies and are planning to initiate the New World Order. George Bush son and senior are part of these kind of organizations.

video(dot)google(dot)com/videoplay?docid=-1817848131611744924

www(dot)torrentz(dot)com/37c3ca830c96a32a63386530a9bed60ee3acd8a1

www(dot)torrentz(dot)com/49db9372579ff484fcae99920c2c790303d5cb55

www(dot)torrentz(dot)com/2e994c5e7da28f74f63a90171410b81bb4fa3ba7

 

[Gackt21]

And far worse than any one can ever imagine.

Correction. It's how free markets USED to work up until recently. It will never be the same. I have a strange feling that if the country of Iceland does indeed declare bankruptcy, major countries of the world will soon follow like falling dominoes. Iceland, being a very small country, will be the test case. If they succeed, others will follow because the central banks are startiung to take control of major financial institutions. Once you control the money of a country the rest becomes a piece of cake.

In the words of Mayer Rothschild, who initiated the first central bank in England, ﾂ"Permit me to control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.ﾂ" – Mayer Rothschild, Patriarch of the Rothschild family who initiated the first central bank in England after he started a rumor about the war with Napoleon and the stock market tanked. He then went in and bought up the entire English stock market.



The major industrial countries are starting to consolidate by "buying shares" in major banks. However, one knows that those with the most shares, owns and controls the company and can dictate whatever they want. The noose is slowly being tightened.

I so agree with you. I would let those banks tank and then the market recover on its own.:sorry:

 

[Astroboy]

After Obama takes office (yay! ), the U.S. will become more protectionist as a matter of self preservation. Consequently, demand from Japan's major export market will soften hindering Japan's chance to grow out of it's economic doldrom. Emerging markets might be a new source of opportunity but the global recession will slow growth there, too. I think it will be a long economic winter--but maybe that's a good thing. The world's economy needs major rebalancing and less CO2 emissions.

Problem is ..... What industry Obama can protect?

1. Japanese automobile production in US factories is much more than exports from Japan.
2. Japan is already a big buyer of US agricultural products, except BSE beef and rice.
3. US financial industry .... Self-Collapsed.
4. Hollywood continues to reproduce film based on Japanese Anime.
5. US Aero Industry is being on strike. Nobody knows when our ordered airplane comes....

Please let us know what we can import from USA.

 

[Dogen Z]

cheaper dollar

Obama doesn't need to specify any indusutry to protect. All he needs to do is support a weak dollar policy, which would make sense economically and not violate any WTO rules. Then all import into the U.S. would be more expensive and exports out would be cheaper....so then it would be bye bye PS3, hello Xbox 360, or so long Toyota, hello Ford in the U.S. (Only Honda truly produces cars in the U.S., Nissan & Toyoto merely have assembly plants.) In other world markets U.S. products would also be cheaper. So the trade imbalance would work itself out. Since the price of oil has dropped a cheap dollar policy would not be too inflationary.

 

[Astroboy]

Obama doesn't need to specify any indusutry to protect. All he needs to do is support a weak dollar policy, which would make sense economically and not violate any WTO rules.

If so, I fully agree with you.
But instead, Chinese will acquire US companies as far as they can see benefits.

 

[Pachipro]

I recommend watching a documentary called Zeitgeist and others related to Freemasonry, Illuminati, New World Order and the sort.

I second that. Unfortunately, many people are afraid of the truth and it will fall mostly on deaf ears as most do not want to know the truth about how our government, as well as the governments of the industrialized world, including Japan, are actually run and who actually pulls the puppet strings. One look at the recent takeovers of the banks of the world by their governments should tell you that.

Obama doesn't need to specify any indusutry to protect. All he needs to do is support a weak dollar policy, which would make sense economically and not violate any WTO rules. Then all import into the U.S. would be more expensive and exports out would be cheaper....so then it would be bye bye PS3, hello Xbox 360, or so long Toyota, hello Ford in the U.S. (Only Honda truly produces cars in the U.S., Nissan & Toyoto merely have assembly plants.) In other world markets U.S. products would also be cheaper. So the trade imbalance would work itself out. Since the price of oil has dropped a cheap dollar policy would not be too inflationary.

Oh please tell me you actually do not believe what you wrote here. Are you for real or are you drunk on all the kool-aid the media forces down your throat? You are the epitomy of the average person in the US only getting his/her news from 7 second sound bites on the majoir media without doing any independent research for yourself. The US is truly doomed. Tell me what industries can Obama protect. Name just one. Auto? No way as they will soon be bailed out. Airlines? No they too are in line for a bailout. Then, not only will the government own the mortage industry and the banks, but the auto and airline industries. Trust me, many many more banks and industries will fail in the near future as they tighten their grip and consolidate their power.

A weak dollar? And what does the US actually produce today that it can export with it only having about 16% of it's 1960's manufacturing base left? Alcohol maybe? Not really as even Budweiser was bought up by Belgium and Miller by another foreign country. Hollywood movies? Perhaps, but Japan has it's grips on Hollywood. Cars? No, as most are manufactured overseas in the countries that they sell them. Ford and Chevy are profitable in overeas markets, but not in the US where most of their cars are crap anyway and breakdown within a year. Tools? No made overseas. Food? Maybe. Pray tell. What does the US actually export these days? Computer systems and electronics? No. Made in Japan and other countries. The truth be told, go out and try to buy something in the US today that was not made overseas and I bet you cannot come up with anything major. You need yo re-educate yourself.

Sadly, the only thing that the US exports today is its debt and its inflation and soon other nations will stop buying it and then where will we be? I think you need to do a little more reading DOGEN Z as you cannot possibly be serious as, if you are, it shows your severe lack of understanding and your ignorance of how the world is being run today and by whom. Please look at the videos listed above, do the research on what has been presented, and then come back here and give your opinion. Until then you are just a mouthpiece of the controlled media who wants you to believe Obama is the savior and messiah and will save the US when the truth is that no matter who gets elected, Obama or McCain, nothing will change as they will only do as they are told by those in charge and who allowed them to run for office in the first place. If Obama is elected the US will still fall in about three years as that is what is planned. The same for McCain. Have you ever wondered why the Democrats and Republicans do no allow independents on the ballot? Because they are two sides of the same coin that's why. Sadly, most people believe their vote really counts and that's what they want you to believe and you do it well.

Sorry for being so blunt, but some people really need to get a grip and learn what is actually going on.

 

[caster51]

I so agree with you. I would let those banks tank and then the market recover on its own

I think The root of the recession cannot be removed only by relieving and normalizing the financial institution in the United States.

The financial policy is merely a supporting policy
There is not saving the economic growth decline of recession except rousing the private-sector demand.
The conversion to economic growth etc. are impossible without an appropriate investment in public works that especially leads to the employment increase.
Economic growth and the stock prices rise are impossible as long as the United States will not come up with a concrete financial policy in the future.


15th Aug, 1971

After the war, President Nixon suddenly abolished the exchange system of the dollar- gold as the United States economic policy on August 15, 1971(anniversary of Japan's defeat in WWII).
World War2,there was no wartime catastrophe in The United States.
The United States bore the revival demand in the world single-handed and was the capital supply source to liberal nations including Japan.
Japan and West Germany economy grow up rapidly in the 1960's and the industrial
productivity has approached the United States.
The United States transferred the seat of a product-making , a huge exporter, and the world's largest creditor to Japan and West Germany. (It is Japan and West Germany in the defeat anniversary of Japan of 1971.
both are defeated countries)

I think that it was the United States concession speech by Nixson.
And, the United States kept walking as a large consumption country, finance center, IT, trade deficit country, and the world's largest external debt country. ..
It is the United States investment banks to have produced the cycle of prosperity by this bubble and the recession by burst of the economic bubble.
NY without them is not NY anymore

Who can do their substitute?

Nomura DID buy up Lehman Brothers's entire Asia division and MFUJ owns huge chunk of Morgan Stanley.
Tokyo has a chance to be a world Finance center now if there is an ambition in Japan

The Investment bank in US that has returned the foreign capital to the United States up to now is in the state of the crisis.

I think the Japanese ones will be the substitute.
That is, the capitals of the world are collected in Tokyo and it returns to the
United States. because politics center will be not changed..



the Japanese Yen is so strong Now.
It means it is an evidence that the money which want safe are moving to Japan.
I think the real booming in domestic demand might be beguan by strong Yen.

Japan can cause big influence power for the United States economy and politics under name of "support"
The stability of the investment of Japan can be measured by doing so.

American economy cannot exist without the inflow of money from foreign
countries.
The capital of the world was attracted with IT in the Clinton age and the house in the Bush age .
And, after the bubbles of the housing and IT occurred because of the inflow of the excessive capital, it was burst of the economic bubble.
The United States has repeated the war without fail at such time.
Obama can not make it again

 

[Dogen Z]

Well anyway, it looks like it's gonna be a long one. So I want to advise everyone, no matter where you are, reduce your burn rate -- you're gonna have to make your assets last as long as possible. Time to re-read that classic economics text, Small is Beautiful.

 

[caster51]

Should the United States choose Obama now?
Obama imposes high taxation to the high income earner in American economy.
They must be engines that pull the United States economy.
He has committed the low income person preferential treatment plan.
It is natural that he is welcomed in the United States that expands the
disparity in wealth.
however, How about the United States today economic conditions?
It is not time when those equalities are said.

The United States face takes the place of the black preson.
I think It might be a denial of the United States tradition from Lincoln.
I say it is a kind of revolution.
why now?

 

[Dogen Z]

Barak Obama will be the 44th president of the U.S.A. Why now? I think it's partly because of the stupidity and incompetence of the the 43rd president--worst f**king president in history. But it's also because Obama is really smart.

Now the question for this forum is, "What does it mean for Japan?" And the answer is, I think, Japan's politicians will have to grow up. Obama is much more mature than Bush despite his younger age. Japan will have to learn how to defend its positions rather than just following American policy. This will be good for Japan, IMO.