Int. J 1-3 話しかける・帰るところ・から

[ledojaeger]

Hello, I'm looking or help and/or thumbs up on my translations and understandings (as in my prior threads and threads to come). どうぞよろしく。

例文と自己翻訳 Example Sentence and Personal Translation: (Bonus question: Can I say jiko honyaku?)
アメリカ人ベティー・ピーターソンが、日本へ行く飛行機で隣に座った日本人女性に話しかける。
Direct: American Betty Peterson talks to a Japanese woman who sat next to her on a plane going to Japan.
Native: Betty Peterson, an American, talks to a Japanese woman who sat next to her on a plane headed for Japan.

１）With the verb tenses in the translated sentence, is it accurate to say that the Japanese woman may have sat down next to Betty in the past, but the conversation is still in the plane present? In other words, this 'scene' is taking place ON that plane, and the woman sat down next to Betty before the scene began.
２）話しかける - difference of using this versus simply 話す?
３）帰るところ - In the example conversation, the Japanese woman uses this to explain that she is going home to Japan for a vacation. I'm familiar with ~ta tokoro as 'just did ~', but what is ~ru tokoro?
４）名刺に家の電話番号を書いておきますから。- The Japanese woman says this - she's going to write her home's phone number down for Betty so Betty can visit. First: The ~oku is there because she's writing it down for Betty's use LATER, correct? 'I'll write down the number [so you can call later]'. What I'm wondering is what から does for the sentence, because translating it as 'because' feels strange to me, as it's not really an explanation...

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
Grammatically, the two interpretations, 1)past "sat" and 2)present perfect "has just sat", are equally possible.

2)
It expresses the action is done towards the target.

3)
in the midst of the action (sometime between the point of beginning to return and the point of finishing returning) = on the way to home

Notice that "present form + ところ" can express "to be about to~", i.e., the action doesn't start yet.

4)
Yes for ～ておく.
後でお電話ください or something like that is omitted at the end of the sentence, as in your interpretation.

 

[ledojaeger]

2)
It expresses the action is done towards the target.

So, it's in the sense of 'to talk to' as opposed to just 'talk'?

3)
in the midst of the action (sometime between the point of beginning to return and the point of finishing returning) = on the way to home

Notice that "present form + ところ" can express "to be about to~", i.e., the action doesn't start yet.

Hmm...so if I said, 今スーパーで昼食を買うところ it would mean 'I'm about to buy lunch at the supermarket'? Or 'I'm currently buying lunch at the supermarket' in anticipation of the endpoint (eating it)? That may be a confusing question, sorry.

4)
Yes for ～ておく.
後でお電話ください or something like that is omitted at the end of the sentence, as in your interpretation.

Ahh, that makes sense...
I just have to look for that logical inferred final part that's left out.

 

[Toritoribe]

2)
That's right.

3)
Actually, 帰る is a bit special. It can refer to both the starting point of the action "leaving the current place" and the finishing point "arriving at home", therefore 帰るところ can mean "on the way to home". Usually, ～ているところだ is used for "in the midst of the action", thus, 昼食を買うところです only means "I'm about to buy lunch", and 昼食を買っているところです is for "I'm currently buying lunch".

 

[ledojaeger]

So, I was thinking before, how to use ~るところ, does it work for something like
"We are about to win, too!" (air of complaint)
「勝つところだったのに！」

Or
"I was about to leave and the phone suddenly began to ring."
「出かけるところで電話が急に鳴り始めた。」

Sometimes I 'practice' a bit too much with my example sentences and the entire things need to be butchered and remade...

 

[Toritoribe]

The past form ～るところだった often has a nuance of "the event didn't occur". In fact, your first example 勝つところだったのに！ means that they didn't win. Similarly, 死ぬところだった means "I was almost dying", thus, the speaker didn't die, of course.

Your translation of the second example is also fine. It doesn't have this nuance, though.

 

[ledojaeger]

That's perfect, because I had that nuance in mind when I created the first sentence. I'm so glad!! Thank you!

 

[Toritoribe]

Sorry, but I've just realized that "I was almost dying" is not a good translation for 死ぬところだった. It's more likely 死にそうだった or 死にかけた. Unlike these expressions, 死ぬところだった can be used also for conditional of contrary-to-fact(反事実).

タクシーに乗っていたら（＝乗っていて / 乗っていたので）、事故で死にかけた。
あのタクシーに乗っていたら、事故で死ぬところだった。（＝乗っていなかったから死ななかった。）

As you can see, the subject was really almost dead in the first example, whereas they didn't even get on the taxi in the latter one.

 

[ledojaeger]

What is the translation of the latter sentence?
These are my understandings of your two examples. (Thank you by the way for clarification)

1. I almost died in an accident after riding in the taxi.
2. If I rode in that taxi, I would have died in an accident.

Very rough translations, I'm sure I'm in line for correction with those.

 

[Toritoribe]

You got the meanings correctly.