Goodbye JREF

[Ma Cherie]

This is all so awful ;_;

Yes I know. I'm still trying to figure out why Maciamo would even start a thread like that.

 

[Glenn]

Like I said i don't know how to disable my account, but moderators by all means go ahead and put me out of my misery. So long as I'm still able to post the temptation to vent how majorly pissed off I am is just irresistable....

Just a note: based on previous discussions about this, we don't delete accounts. I can't delete accounts, anyway. However, if you really wish, you may be able to provide an illegitimate e-mail address that will get you removed, or you can remove all the information in your profile that isn't required and put "no longer a member" for your custom user title.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed reading your posts and wish you would stay too.

 

[doinkies]

Well, I made a copy of the thread because I figured it would get pulled down. For those who didn't see it, basically the OP started it by stating how ignorant Japanese people are because they don't know much about European history (errors in knowledge about Napoleon, Alexander the Great and the vikings were given as examples).
I can't say about what other people's deleted posts said, but my response was, in a perfectly reasonable manner, to point out that history in Japan is taught from an East asian perspective and therefore it was unfair to conclude that Japanese were ignorant just because they didn't know the basics of European history.
I then pointed out that European students don't learn much about topics like (for example) Confuscius, the Tang Dynasty and Hideyoshi Toyotomi. Knowledge about them would be considered a part of fundamental history to Japanese students, yet it would be highly unlikely that many European students would know anything about them. But from that fact you could not infer that Europeans were ignorant, as the OP attempted to do in regards the Japanese.
That post, which I put some thought into and even went to the trouble of looking up some facts in a Japanese history textbook to support, was summarily deleted by the OP for no apparent reason other than it didn't make Japanese people look stupid, which is apparently the only type of post that he considers appropriate.
The fact that my post wasn't treated with any respect made me upset. I don't mind being disagreed with or having people argue with me, but to have it just wiped off the face of the earth like that made my blood boil. And then when I (not unreasonably) demand an apology, they guy adds insult to injury by sending me an automated PM notifying me that I have been given an infraction.
I don't know how this forum manages to stay afloat with a person like that running things. Never mind the fact that he treats posters like garbage, this is supposed to be a forum for people interested in Japan, it shouldn't be run by someone who is obviously bigoted against the Japanese. And I don't use that term lightly, I've made many posts on here that have been highly critical of Japan. But the tone of that thread and the draconian rules enforced to stifle anything other than virulent anti-Japanese views cannot lead one to any conclusion but that the person running it is a bigot. To give an example of the type of thing he posted:
MACIAMO wrote: "On a side note : don't get me wrong, I am fairly tolerant toward their ignorance (amazed, speechless, but tolerant). I make fun of it, but they are forgiven because of their horrible education system."

I agree with this. I don't mind criticism of Japan, but I think that Maciamo went way overboard and crossed the line and acted like a doink. I also think that Maciamo should not have deleted your posts or anyone else's posts. Forums are supposed to be places to share your opinions, not conform to the admin's opinions. People also shouldn't be banned just because they don't agree with the admin.

This has to be stopped. Maciamo must be reigned in somehow. Even though he complains about how the Japanese people he met all stereotyped him, he ends up doing the same thing to Japanese people.

 

[sabro]

Maciamo... doink... knob.... (giggle giggle)

 

[miki78]

I don't understand it either why start a thread that is bashing the very race that everybody on this forum loves?

I know we have to accept the pros and cons of every race but not in making a thread you know is gonna have a match under it

Maciamo has always seemed so nice to me i don't get why everybody seems to be antagonizing each other lately

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Senseiman, you are the reason I joined Jref in the first place. I think I said this once in an earlier post, but it was your thread about the worst vacation spots in Japan, and your hilarious examples that made me interested in this place.

It would be a shame to see you leave, although I understand your position perfectly.

I am not threatening leaving, by the way. I am merely worried that I will be banned at some future point in time for being critical of Maciamo in my last post on this thread, and barring that some time in the future just for stating my opinion or responding to a post in a way that upsets Maciamo or some other staff member.

 

[sabro]

Yeah guys, leave the poor guy alone! What has he ever done to you?

 

[Cue]

Senseiman, thank you so much for typing them all up for us who didn't get to see what had happened. I think I'm catching up.
And now I couldn't agree more with what doinkies has said.

 

[senseiman]

Senseiman, you are the reason I joined Jref in the first place. I think I said this once in an earlier post, but it was your thread about the worst vacation spots in Japan, and your hilarious examples that made me interested in this place.
It would be a shame to see you leave, although I understand your position perfectly.
I am not threatening leaving, by the way. I am merely worried that I will be banned at some future point in time for being critical of Maciamo in my last post on this thread, and barring that some time in the future just for stating my opinion or responding to a post in a way that upsets Maciamo or some other staff member.

Thank you, I've always found your posts to be interesting and insightful as well.


To be perfectly honest I don't want to leave and I thank everyone for encouraging me to stay. I think I will refrain from using the main forums in protest however until things have changed for the better. I will continue to post on this site feedback/admin contact forum though.


Just one final thought I'd like to contribute on how truly offensive that thread was. It wasn't necessarily the content itself, but the lack of ability of people, especially the Japanese posters here, to reply. That is just unbelievably appalling. Putting up a thread attacking a segment of this community and then completely denying them any chance to defend themselves and their ethnic group against the slur.....I mean it just truly boggles the mind. When I first read it I strongly disagreed with Maciamo's premise, but so long as the purpose was to foster debate (perhaps about Japan's educational system) I thought it was OK. But by banning people from defending themselves from what became a truly ugly attack on their intelligence -based solely on their race- I just can't describe in words how offensive I find that (well, maybe in swear words).

I'm not Japanese, but my wife is. Often times I find that there are things about western history she isn't aware of, like the other day I was talking about Lord Nelson and the Battle of Trafalgar and she wasn't familiar with that. But it would be grossly ignorant of me to infer anything about my wife's intelligence based on that. She is a remarkably intelligent woman and has taught me quite a few things about Japanese and Chinese history that I was completely unaware of.

Like I said, I've criticised a lot of things about Japan on this board, but I've always tried to be careful to draw a distinction between criticizing certain issues in Japan and making broad, culturally biased statements about Japanese people in general.

 

[thistle]

well said Senseiman, I totally agree with everything you said.
I too have enjoyed the forums the last few months, but have no wish to
visit anymore with such a bigot running them.

 

[sabro]

I used "intollerant" and "bigot" before, but it was in reference to religious issues...

Maciamo's wife is Japanese, isn't she?

 

[Revenant]

Decided I'd take more time to think about this before posting my thoughts....

 

[Mars Man]

If I may add another word in here, please. From the bottom of my heart, and with all faith and hope and more than anything else, love, I'd like to ask that we let things settle a bit now. The thread in question has been deleted and it may be good to let that 'history' lesson be as it is...a lesson learned (once again?) in history. And then, in the meantime, try to get senseiman to stick around, and stand up for Mikawa Ossan san !!! MM

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

As I recall,you worded it " with impunity ".

Ah, thanks for the correction. I think you're right about that.

 

[Davey]

If I may add another word in here, please. From the bottom of my heart, and with all faith and hope and more than anything else, love, I'd like to ask that we let things settle a bit now.

I agree with MM, please don't make it worse than it already is, even though I agree with a lot of you guys, on a lot of things.

Making threads, or posts to say certain things, is not going to help the problem.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I agree. Let's let the management team make the next move.

 

[Nicky]

don't want there to be no freedom of speach

That doesn't exist on message boards. If it did we'd have to let trolls hang around and bash people because it's their "opinion".

I'm not defending anyone, I just wanted to add this because I moderate a forum and at least once every month I have to hear "RAH RAH, What happened to freedom of speech?". The person or persons who own a board get to decide what goes. It's not fair but... It's their board, their property.

I saw the thread, I thought it was a bit weird. There might be people in Japan who don't know who Napoleon or whoever was, or what he did. But I'm not entirely sure who Nobunaga was or what he did. I just know that his name shows up a hell of a lot in video games. I consider us even.

 

[Elizabeth]

Don't leave. Trust me...the person in question has made me feel like leaving before also.
I only stay because there must be someone here to act as a voice of reason...and to help keep him in check...otherwise what would the forum become?

The only power we have is to not respond to him and these abuses of authority would have died out several months or even years ago.

 

[Mike Cash]

Goodness, have things become so bad here that the members who've been here for quite some time feel they have to leave?

Maciamo has been mightily offended at having his offensiveness pointed out and is handing out infractions like Halloween candy. Those of us who had the temerity to point out the inflammatory and racist nature of his thread in which one must post some gratuitous anecdotal insult against the Japanese people in general or have the post deleted are, it would seem, being loaded up with infraction points so that he can justify banning us.

We won't have to leave; we'll be run out of town on a rail. Unfortunately, those he is intent on running off tend to be the ones with the greatest amount of experience of actually living in Japan. I suppose he'll be happy when he has run off anyone who can contradict any of his opinions with facts and reason.

 

[Seon-a Kim]

Aaaww common people why isn't everyone getting along, there are worse matters in life to worry about then all this, it all gets blown up and made worse like this and isn't good for the general peace of the community and your own personal psyche and health.

These kind of of things are endless and give bad vibes to other people or potential good and dedicated members who might consider to join.

It's not always easy to moderate a place with so many people, mistakes are made by both members and staff members...it will always be like that. These matters are best that they are taken care of in private by E-mail or PM and try to solve and understand the matter with each other like that will do much more good...and if not, then there are always the Admins who can be personally contacted and I'm sure they will be pleased to look into the matter and take actions accordingly.

 

[RockLee]

Well, I think Maciamo went too far too. Giving an infraction is one, but doing it just because of personal bias goes too far, even for an admin. Oh and Sabro, you should be a bit more greatful towards the demi-god ;-)

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Dare I ask?

Can an admin be put on some kind of probation for inappropriate behavior?

(I'm really doing my best to refrain from further comment on this matter and let the staff discuss it over. It's just so....difficult to keep quiet at times like this!)

 

[RockLee]

Since Maciamo is co-owner of JREF I think that would be hard. But I agree things must change, maybe let the moderating of the people he has a bias against be done by the mods. That would be a possible solution.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I see your point. I think he does a great job at web-site maintenance. Would it be possible to make an arrangement where he takes care of maintenance but has not admin capabilities on the forum? Of course he can whatever he wants at Eupedia as far as I'm concerned.

 

[thomas]

OK could be wrong but thats kinda like a silent apology senseiman ^_^
See you don't have to leave

I have removed the thread in question, because it is not deemed appropriate for a forum dealing with all things Japanese. I cannot apologise for other people's actions, but I do regret these recent incidents very much.