Ghost stories!

Chi65, great posts. I think the book was titled "Parallel Universe" or something like that. I bought it in Japan, because I needed something to read in English. I left it there when i was done! I have to admit some parts were hard to really grasp. It was a very scientific book, but I found it fascinating. Space travel by bending space like folding a piece of paper...all of those types of theories. That's why I think there has to be something more of paranormal activity. That's also why I find straight religious type answers lacking. There are still some christian religions that believe the earth is flat because the Bible talks of the "four corners" of the world. Back to "ghosts", I would like to put a digital recorder in that bedroom and see if it would pick anything up.
 
Good Night! I believe that's the book, the cover is different, but I read the reviews and it sure sounds like what I read. It is a tough read, but very interesting once you can "wrap" your head around the greatness and vastness of possibilities that are out there.....
 
Again...I'm sorry for this quicky...I had come on tonight with things prepared, and ended up...until now, doing some moderating work.

Goldiegirl said:
I read a book that said the past, present and future are all happening at the same time.
Click to expand...

Alas...if I could only throw so many other activities aside and spend more time here. YES...Goldiegirl, you beat me to it. That is one of the points and angles of argument I have lined up. It is somewhat possible that our silly brains are giving us an illusion of what is simply entropy, as a time 'flow.' In that scenario, there is only present...as at the end of the movie 2001.

Jumping ahead of myself, now, what that would tend to support more than anything else, is that there are no such things as ghosts--as our definition goes, you see. More tomorrow, I promise. I hope all who are interested do follow along and discuss this in the detail required. I've read all posts up to now (since my last one) and will respond later. I am sorry, for this 'touch and go'-like posting style. MM
 
Chi65 said:
I am sure, that it also has to do with the reception of a non-physical phenomenom. Only, WHAT?
Click to expand...

This reminds me of something I heard about years ago on a talk radio program. People were saying that they had seen or built an "N machine", which was a generator that got electricity from somewhere, but didn't need any gas or other fuel once it got started because it fueled itself from the electricity. They said some of these were being used in third world countries. It used a kind of magnet, I think. They said it proved there was a 4th dimension because this is where the electricity came from. Electricity is something we can't see with our eyes but can surely kill us physically! (Though I guess sometimes you can see it as lightning or sparks).
 
Magnetism is another keyword in this, right. . .
but it would be able to be measured.

I suggest to make experiments with the brain, insofar, as there are things on the go, that can measure the movements and places in the brain, when something is happening, when and where and how you are kind of touched, when a synnie for example feels or tastes colour or the like. They did this lately and it can also be reversed then, as if some have a kind of translater in the head. It often comes out like shortcuts, Eselsbrücke, as we say in Germany, with own and much faster rules. A kind of brain hypers, as I often say. This way one can maybe also "see" what others can't, but yet is there. it would also be interesting, if more than just one person could independantly perceive this "more than this" in about the same way, which would already proove, that in fact something IS there, be it just a kind of magnetism, that creates an image.
By the way, the neurologist Ramachandran is in no way opposed to this, he in fact thinks, that we are not on the way back, but into further developement of the brain's capacities and possibilities and thus especially watches also artists, and particularly the synaesthetes with interest. And we try for long to explain, how and what we perceive!!
Even a very sceptical scientist forum finally picked up on this after all and stopped making silly remarks, as usual. They now add whatever they find to this theme, Bingo! (and thanks to Rama, as we call him, because he is highly respected in scientist circles)

Just to remember, some animals have a different kind of perception, and thus see things, that we (so far) can't and vice versa. Which already prooves, that in fact there can well be much more.

And if you then go into the idea of all of us being interlinked, maybe also via such a hyper. . . we may even "know" by kind of inner TV, whats happening on the other side of this planet. As for me, I did have clear according experiences, even while being with other people, who then looked at me a bit strangely, particularly, when this did not happen only once. . .and I even painted it, before the according message came via radio/TV etc., proving, that in fact at that very time, while I simply had the "urge" to do this in that given time. . .etc. etc.
Now, whats this urge of many artists?. . .painting "ghosts" in a way, to be correct.

Maybe it is more in the field of a kind of radio waves even and then translated into the known? And some have very fine "ears"?
 
I find it hard to believe.

It seems like after 57 years on this earth, if there are ghosts, I would have seen one. Between friends, family, and my patients, several hundred people close to me have died. It seems if ghosts exisited , one of them would have contacted me? I've worked in some really old building with interesting histories, but never had any ghostly encounters. I feel open minded about Ghosts, aliens, etc. , but never had a chance to see one yet.

Uncle Frank

:eek:
 
To be correct, I only saw one clearly as such so far, apart from the multiple ones on my papers, hehe.
But my idea of "Ghosts" is pretty wide.
The one of a dead beloved friend keeps on circling around, and always very pleasantly.
Its like what Yoko Ono says about John Lennon, I know exactly what she means and enjoy it immensely.
Since I only have friendly ones,
I came to like the idea.

Maybe you don't read enough japanese ghost stories, Uncle Frank? There are plenty around!

Since I never fear that terrain, I never get frightening ones (they may try, but it does not work on me, and they give up sooner or later)
Ghosts are projections of your inner visions/relations in the end. Question is, how do you get these visions, what calls you to this place and what exactly translates them how?

The japanese filmers have many answers and suggestions for long already...

Happy dreams, Uncle Frank!

:snore:
 
In looking over some of the points which have come up in the conversation and discussion so far, I can see that the lean has gone much more towards agreement with my argument (post #14, second paragraph, first sentence) that the 'urban legend' definition of the word ghost is invalid. Thus in all likelihood, there is no such thing as a ghost--again, by that definition.

Now, some seemingly, based on positions taken in the presentations of their arguments, forgot my statement in my #14, last par, viz--That does not eliminate the observations, it simply means they have other root causes/sources. I have not been arguing that what the brains of those who have recorded experiences, have in their brains, was a non-reality. (in some cases--which I say here, because some surely are...just as the person on LSD and the likes can actually see and retain memory of things which can easily be shown to have not be external realities.)

I will now introduce my pet word: phantasma. This Greek word is what I will ascribe to the referent of what those who have 'seen', 'heard', 'felt', and yes, even 'smelled,' of what otherwise the mind refused to attach to the 'real world experiences it had', have experienced.

In kind of short-cutting and concluding on my earlier post regarding what seeing is, I'm sure you all will be pretty much aware of, and acknowledge that the other senses fall into the same operational pattern through their various inroads into the brain.

Now, there is a two-fold argument within this presentation. One is the matter of what the brain is and how it works, and how there can be an 'internal reality' which is not an 'external reality,' and just how it can understood that this is so. Another is that all this is physical--as far as is properly and testably known at the moment--and is the individual human.

What happen when the corpus callosum is cut? You basically end up with two brains within the one person. What happens when, for example, you inhibit the LIM-kinase1 nuceotide on a certain gene? You get a person who has very little spatial sense. What happens when a part of the brain is removed in order to prevent habitual epileptic seizures? You get a person who only lives in the present moment...all memory retention after surgery was lost. The person will never be able to recall the person he had met just 2 minutes before.

This all (including what other case studies could be presented here) quite conclusively points to the function of consciousness, on all levels, as being a physical state. This physical state is not perpetual, is a single organization, and will eventual be destroyed--from this presently organized condition. For this reason, this point is one of the stronger ones for the argument that what we have seen, heard, etc.--and of course I have known of more than just what you folks have presented here--are phantasma. There is no such thing as a ghost. (and now work beckons again...)
 
A girl and I used an ouija board one time and made contact with a poltergeist that followed her family when they moved to another county.

Before that, I used to work at a convalescent hospital and I saw an empty dessert cup (face down) move by itself on a dry metal counter.

"I saw what I saw when I saw it!" - Lou Costello in "Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein."
 
Last edited:
Mars Man

Even though I didn't understand most of what you were saying in your previous posts because all you were getting really scientific, I did get the basic gist and that's that you don't think ghosts exist.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Not because of any scientific reason, this is based entirely on my own experience. Somehow in 21 years I've managed to experience a sh*tload of unexplainable stuff. Keep in mind that I don't go seeking this out, I'm not prone to chanting by candlelight and trying to summon up my dead uncle or anything. This is just what happened.

Ok. First and only time I ever saw a ghost. It was near Halloween and so being a teenager me and my brother and his friend decided to go trolling around the loacl graveyards, reading the graves and whatnot. First grave was a burial gravesite, didn't see any ghosts but for some reason all of us smelt this godawful stench at the same time and took off running out of there, no words were spoken, we weren't even in the same place but for some reason the second we smelled it all three of us hit the pavement hard at the same time and didn't stop until we were well down the street.

Yup, that was freaky. But, being teenagers we laughed it off and went on our way to the cremation burial site about a 10 minute walk down. So we were there, reading the grave markers for about five minutes. I just happened to look up for a split second and saw a man crouching over one of the graves, looking down at it. He looked up at me, I blinked, and he was gone. So I ran, all of us at the same time ran and to this day I've never gone back into a graveyard at night, let alone a Halloween night. And I always found it strange because it looked like a 'sterotypical' ghost, gray/white, transparent, but strangely solid. And his clothes weren't exactly 'recent' either.

Anyways, I'm not done. Everything else happened while I was living in America. There was something not right in that house and I spent three years hiding under my covers at night and watching my back. It wasn't just me, all my friends who ever spent the night, without prompting from me in any way, told me in the morning they couldn't sleep in my room because it felt like something was in there.
It was about two years into living in the house that I was sitting on my bed one day doing my homework and an ornamental cup that I kept on my TV somehow managed to fling itself off of my TV and onto my bed, right in front of me. My window wasn't open, I had no fan in my room, no vents, nothing. The cup just flew off my TV. About a month after that I was watching a movie in my bedroom with my brother, my parent had left and there was nobody in the house, and for some reason I looked at the space between my bedroom door and the floor and a shadow passed underneath the door, like someone was walking past. Keep in mind NOBODY was in the house, no dogs, no cats, not nothing.

Those were just the ones that stood out most in my mind. Not two weeks after I graduated I booked it out of there and moved back to Canada, haven't had any strange encounters since.

But I stick to my two rules, stay away from the occult, known haunted houses and stay far away from graveyards near Halloween. It's served me well. But that's my experience, take it how you will. :-)
 
But if we were to think it through carefully--and I would tend to think that it would be good to try to run through what has been said so far, not only by myself, but others too--I'm still betting that in all likelihood you have not seen any ghosts (make sure you understand the definition being used) at all, but have seen phantasma, perhaps.

Of course an object moving slightly on a metal counter, even if the counter were dry, could find another explanation...since I have experienced such before too, and upon investigation found moisture the culprit. Even so, without any other visible explanation, that--or especially a physical object flying suddenly across the room--would not make a ghost. (again, as defined above)

One more reason for that I will now go into.
Goldiegirl said:
the problem is there is more than one religion. So saying these visions are satanic or demonic just doesn't answer the question for me. i don't believe the bible told a true happening of events but rather in many instances is a parable, but I think that is another thread.
Click to expand...

Here we also find one source for the 'ghost' idea, namely religious belief-systems. I fully agree with Goldiegirl, and others who have investigated it well and have reached the decision that the Bible, for one, is most likely not true history nor science in practically all non-human-related history. (and even then, is somewhat stretched in some places)

However, just as that is true, it is also found to be true that religious belief-systems which came before or separate from the Abrahamic systems, which brought us the concept that there is no death of the person or animal, but rather a passing into another world, are largel untrue representations--and eventually led to the Christian 'heaven' and 'hell' idea being possible. Also the concept of reincarnation runs along such lines.

I have found no arguments yet which could pursuade the neutral third party that there is more advantage in believing the even older human-created religious belief-systems, all the while not believing the later ones at all...or by trying to merge them.

Even the great philosophers of Greece, since such have been presented, had very little knowledge about some rather basic functions of nature that we today know. The ancients were surely more in touch with nature in a lot of ways that we have lost with our modernity, but knowledge has been passed down, can be, and has been tested, and has been found wanting in a number of places. One of those is the make up of the body and brain, and what they really are. (even Descartes was wrong.)

It is far more likely, if not extremely most likely that the death of the brain is the death of the person in absolute terms, exactly as the destruction of the mass is the release of energy--leaving the mass no longer existent.

Therefore ghosts are not people who are dead but are living. Ghosts are phantasma. Goldiegirl had brought up the question of our 'energy.' I will next go into that...and please do keep in mind, that this is embedding within the overall presentation being made. I have not yet come so close to the areas of agreement with you girls, and the occasional guy who are at the table with us.
 
Well, as for ghosts, that may be so after all,
but... I experienced other still unexplained things, like unconsciously influencing events from distance with very material and kind of provable results maybe? I showed them to someone, a Japanese, in fact, and he said, well, it has maybe not come from outside, but from within the "map".

OK, here is the story:
It was the papermodel (I call it timemodel)plus detailed description and designs for what was later done as an animation, via the same person's friend. . .It furtherhin was in regular Din A 4 plasticsheets (about 4) for maps. Nothing special. But a piece of concept work for the artschool, to show them, what I was up to.
I remember, having left it in a red cardboard map on my working table, when leaving for Switzerland (for some holidays). You have to know, that it was far from the two windows and there was no sun shining in ever, because it was north side and leading to another nowhere shining housewall with no windows there. Fourth floor and back of the house, actually. Thus absolutely no reflection or whatsoever from outside possible, nor in the room, the light was out and nothing else around on that place but other papers and the switched of lamp sideways.
When I was in Switzerland, I happened to carry a little alike papermodel with me, in the pocket of my trousers, because I wanted to keep it in mind and see, if I get an idea to make it bigger than this, as an artwork, maybe.
However, I one day sat in front of a little pond in the garden of our rural house and watched the water, then threw two stones into the water, because I was interested in watching the interference lines of the waves, when they meet in the middle.
It for sure was a very meditative state too, relaxed and concentrated, it was about fullmoon.

However, when I came back home, I was very surprised.
Because the red map has been kind of burnt in the meantime, in fact, it showed two dark regular rings right on top of the map, in the middle/center of the red cardboard, about the size of my pocket model and the according design inside. It looked, as if something very hot has been standing on it (no cup with coffee or the like could do, and the rings were smaller than any cup I had, nor anything as hot of that size), slightly overlapping in the middle, and very exact.
But that was not all, when I opened the map, every plastic sheet was melted together with the other one, all the way through, but only in the according ringed places, and the papers themselves were also brownish there all the way through. I still have all this, although carefully separated by pages. By the way, no holes in the paper later, not even any melted plastic on them, all fine to be read separately, as before, only the plasics got according holes from separations.
Perfectly designed burn, but from what??
No one else had a key to my room, and it surely was not me, who did this when there.

Well, as said, my japanese friend smiled with the above comment. No one was "excited", we just saw it and agreed, that it was "unusual" and left it there.

Now, that was not a ghost, but what kind of energy, please??
 
That was a very nice story. In a way, it kind of reminded me of some of Jung's stories. This type of phenomenon lies within the sphere of the paranormal. It is an area which pure science seldom dares, unfortunately, I'd say, to venture into.

Yes, I would (as of course you would know) argree that this event would have nothing to do with that urban mythological ghost--which most likely does not exist--but nevertheless, would not be explainable (as is) in usual terms.

I still (as I have mentioned earlier on this thread) think there can be a part of the physcial universe which we simply do not know of yet, can not measure yet, and so is ascribed to the paranormal or supernatural, when, all along, it is actually as physcial as neutrinos or a neutron's outside and inside negative charge sandwiching a positive charge's making a neutral charge--so to speak.

As I am still embedding within the overall presentation I intend to make, I would like to come back to this again !! Thanks for sharing this very fascinating story with us !!
 
Sure, go on as you like! Its very interesting, what you write, and I will have more to say to all that. I just felt to show some of my reasons for being interested in that theme (and maybe someone has an idea or according link?), since many have such experiences, but are too shy to show them.
It may nevertheless illustrate one or another point/view and encourage for further (hopefully serious) research.
I love questions and riddles, puzzles etc. and trying to find according answers, whichever way.
I also like fantasy, but not a hysterical blurred view on "paranormal" etc., which often is simply a not yet known, right. We are on the same boat in this, I suppose.

;-)
 
Mars Man said:
... exactly as the destruction of the mass is the release of energy--leaving the mass no longer existent.
Click to expand...

A "release of energy" is what many think of as death - the spirit or essence of a person leaving the physical behind. This is also what could be defined as a "ghost".
 
Sarapva said:
A "release of energy" is what many think of as death - the spirit or essence of a person leaving the physical behind. This is also what could be defined as a "ghost".
Click to expand...

Maybe this is what is referred to as losing "X" amount of grams at the moment of death?
 
Guess why some trad. easterners often talk about dying without dying. . .
There can be something experienced that "releases" without (permanently) leaving the body behind. Satori is such a state, for example, a certain bliss, aha:143: etc.
(sex is only one way of many to this, if you are lucky, or know how, that is ;-))
Some buddhists have a kind of "shortcut" for trying (goma), can even be compaired with a certain sauna-experience.
It is at least far from being unknown, or really killing, at best your ego and you may then experience a kind of strong safety-net too, if you know, how to "ride your car", so to say.
But fear. . .is nothing but being uninformed and thus untrained in the end maybe. . .

A certain japanese friend once told me in another matter, that also fits here:
once you have been there, you will always find it again.
 
This happens if you let japanese girls around my age 😊 (and older :p) see a j-horror movie:
 
🦀

Great!
I still have a tear in my right eye's corner from laughing!
(thats one of those things, that remind me on films from Sabu, or some korean filmers. . .I love them, hehe!)👏
 
I have not yet come so close to the areas of agreement with you girls, and the occasional guy who are at the table with us.
Click to expand...

There seems to be something to what you just said actually. Most of the people that tell of seeing ghosts or spirits are female. Men see them to but less frequently and they are more likely to try and ignore or explain away the unexplainable.

When it comes to the supernatural, women seem more likely to know and accept that there are things we just don't yet understand, whereas men almost always look at it with scepticism and try to find a logical, scientific explanation.
 
I must admit, that I am also sceptical, and think, Mars Man is doing a very fine job. I have been through all that too somewhere else, and it never ends and I do follow it with growing interest, by the way.
But on the other hand I also love, what happened and those who articulate fantastic stories, and the stranger, the better (see the above mentioned ones, as for films for example).
Depends on my mood, it all has more sides to look at.
As for men, I know many, that can be even more off the carpet in this than women. They may have other ways of showing it, but if so, then very well even!
(I find scientific views as tickling as horror stories, by the way);-)
 
I still think, that some "ghosts" are from people who have died in the physical sense. My best friend told me that one evening when she was getting ready for bed her brother came into her room unexpectedly. She was quite taken aback as he lived in Arizona. He said that he needed to tell her that he was ok and not to worry. He then told her that everything we know is wrong, and then he just vanished. A little while later she received a phone call saying her brother had died instantly of a massive heart attack. Maybe that was his release of energy? She has never seen him again. She always felt comforted that he said he was ok and she didn't need to worry for him.
 

Similar threads

Tetsu
3 word story
27 28 29
Replies
717
Views
26K
Ather
A
Davey
The Story of Jref Members
14 15 16
Replies
383
Views
21K
Grandpa Frank
Grandpa Frank
Carlson
Here is the story
7 8 9
Replies
221
Views
15K
Kirie_Maiden
Kirie_Maiden
smoke
Ghost Stories
2 3
Replies
58
Views
3K
Tsuyoiko
Tsuyoiko
TimF
Funny Story.
2 3 4
Replies
88
Views
6K
jieshi
jieshi
Back
Top Bottom