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Fingerprinting policy- don't let the issue die

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Can you rephrase that?

again,as for this matter ,The illegal immigration, the traveler, and the permanent resident are the same when seeing from the Japanese because they dont have a Jaspanese passport
 
again,as for this matter ,The illegal immigration, the traveler, and the permanent resident are the same when seeing from the Japanese because they dont have a Jaspanese passport

No they're not.

I was asking you to rephrase your later comment.
 
The illegal immigrant situation I mentioned was not a smoke screen. It was a response to the idea that "guest" as I used it do not pay taxes...in other words, there were statements made by others that suggested that when the government expects one to pay taxes he/she is no longer a guest.

I was saying that simply isn't the case. Even illegal immigrants here in the USA are expected to pay taxes--which is not made up at all, my father owns a masonry business--and so do other "guest," again, using the term guest as I intended it and as I will define it momentarily.

Further, I recognized that you might have some just cause for feeling treated unfairly with those other government personnel being admitted without fingerprinting.

I for one trust the Japanese government well enough to at least ask the question: "Why?" and pay attention to see if there is a logical reason for it that validates the segregation. As we see when we consider the Korean special status, there may well be a very valid reason when considered in depth.


___________

From wikipedia:

"Citizenship in a nation-state confers an inalienable right of residence in that state, but residency of non-citizens is subject to conditions set by immigration law."

In other words, your residency is NOT inalienable. Thus, they can remove your from their country at their discretion, without evidence or proof. It is their right, because you, my friend, are a GUEST.

You have made your home in a country to which you are not a citizen, and they are accepting you and allowing you to stay of their own generosity and recognition of what you offer. .

You make long-term use of public services. You are make long-term use of tax dollars. You are therefore expected to contribute to tax dollars.

But you are, nonetheless, a guest. Not a citizen. An immigrant who has taken up residence in a country to which he is not a member, and allowed to stay. There is simply no way to beat around it. You may even qualify to obtain that "membership", but until you join...you haven't joined. lol, thats pretty obvious.

You are a guest buddy, until you decide to join the team, and you are ALLOWED to stay there not granted the RIGHT to stay there. (WHICH by the way is probably the biggest difference. Those individuals working for the government have been given a RIGHT to stay there via previous agreements between the countries.)

You should recognize your actual status and appreciate them for allowing you to stay there at all. I would be.
 
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oh, and for the record I think you seem like a pretty awesome guy, indignation and all :)

so if you are ever around Fukuoka in the summer or Christmas let me know. We can head out and pig out on some Korean BBQ...or whatever else, that just happens to be my favorite:)
 
Quote:Therefore in my eyes the government has recognised that fact, so why should I when entering back to my "HOME" have to provide fingerprints everytime?
caster's reply:
I think because you dont have a Japanese passport.
BTW
Glensky;
why dont you get a Japanese nationality?
caster,
"Home" denotes a permanent residence. PR holders have that. SOFA holders do not, yet they are exempt from the fingerprinting, just like Japanese citizens are. So, the equality here does not computer. You don't need to have a Japanese passport to be exempt, but people who are here on a temporary basis (like SOFA holders) are treated like Japanese citizens. Pretty unfair judgment by the Japanese government.

I refuse to answer your question, by the way, for two reasons:

1) I've politely asked you to spell my name (a very simple one even for you) in the past.

2) I've already answered the question on other threads. Give it up. A person does not have to be naturalized to be considered a resident here, so you and the dinosaurs in the government who cannot get it through their thick skulls will just continue to live in ignorance and have to face protests from the logical human rights advocates that live among you.

The illegal immigration, the traveler, and the permanent resident are the same when seeing from the Japanese because they dont have a Jaspanese passport
Aside from the fact that this ignores zainichi and SOFA holders, it just shows how stupid and racist and wrongfully paranoid the MOJ is.
 
The illegal immigrant situation I mentioned was not a smoke screen. It was a response to the idea that "guest" as I used it do not pay taxes...in other words, there were statements made by others that suggested that when the government expects one to pay taxes he/she is no longer a guest.
Ok, no smokescreen, but a straw man argument, then. Or would you prefer calling it non sequitur?

The fact is, you cite American illegal aliens who are currently undergoing scrutiny by the USA for their illegal status and the mistakes the govenment made to let them in and to pay taxes.

I'm not in the USA.
I'm not an illegal alien here.
I'm not living here courtesy of any mistake the government made.

Give it up.

Further, I recognized that you might have some just cause for feeling treated unfairly with those other government personnel being admitted without fingerprinting.
Sorry, but that didn't shine through, especially since you wrote comments like " i don't really care at all myself".

I for one trust the Japanese government well enough to at least ask the question: "Why?" and pay attention to see if there is a logical reason for it that validates the segregation. As we see when we consider the Korean special status, there may well be a very valid reason when considered in depth.
Forget the zainichi. I'm not one of them. Even if I let it go that they have any right to be exempt from the fingerprinting (I'm not saying I feel that way, just using it as a hypothetical to get to the real issues which you seem not to have read or understood in this very lengthy thread), then there are other reasons not to trust the MOJ here. If you don't know or understand that (and I suspect that is the case), then you have no business trying to defend the MOJ or your own ridiculous POV (which borders on trolling, if you really want to know my feeling).

"Citizenship in a nation-state confers an inalienable right of residence in that state, but residency of non-citizens is subject to conditions set by immigration law."

In other words, your residency is NOT inalienable. Thus, they can remove your from their country at their discretion, without evidence or proof. It is their right, because you, my friend, are a GUEST.
This is precisely the semantics I figured you'd spout. Agree to disagree on this one word and look at the rest of the situation from a tax-paying resident's point of view, or leave this thread alone.

But you are, nonetheless, a guest. Not a citizen. An immigrant who has taken up residence in a country to which he is not a member,
Stop right there. I am a member of the community. You cannot say otherwise. I never claim to be a Japanese citizen, but I am a local citizen here. Legally, unlike the Mexicans our own President in the USA is dithering on showing certain rights or penalties.

You are a guest buddy, until you decide to join the team, and you are ALLOWED to stay there not granted the RIGHT to stay there.
Sorry, the government itself (by your definition from Wikipedia) gave me the right to reside here. I am a member of the "team". Just not a Japanese citizen.

You should recognize your actual status and appreciate them for allowing you to stay there at all. I would be.
To certain extents, I do appreciate the right to stay here. However, you clearly fail to understand the human rights abuses taken by the same government against foreigners. Until you learn that one simple point, we have nothing further to discuss. Let me educate you on this a bit by pointing you towards www.debito.org . You don't have to digest the whole site. You'd retire by the time you did.
 
I know these weren't directed at me, but...

happilyengaged said:
You are a guest buddy, until you decide to join the team, and you are ALLOWED to stay there not granted the RIGHT to stay there.

Legally, I'm a resident. Full stop.
Have you ever looked at the actual laws?
You don't have to be a citizen to be a resident.

happilyengaged said:
You should recognize your actual status and appreciate them for allowing you to stay there at all. I would be.

I am here because a Japanese company wants my services.
I am here because the government wants me to work here and has issued the appropriate visa.
I am here because I have a family (with Japanese citizen members) to take care of financially.
On top of that, I pay taxes and into the pension system, both of which support residents and citizens alike.
And did I mention that legally, I am resident?
If anything, long-term (foreign) residents like myself are doing Japan a huge service.
 
Pretty unfair judgment
the logical human rights advocates that live among you.

you are just given the ticket(long time) to get on a ship called Japan.
You can use the facilities as same as the Japanese
However, you cannot hundle it because you dont have a ticket such like passport ...
 
caster,
I can "hundle" decency and respect, which for the most part I get in Japan.

The government and you are different stories. Why is it that your country signed an international treaty against racism and discrimination over 10 years ago, yet has not enacted a single law to enforce that claim? Because they can't "hundle" it!

And, no, I and other foreigners cannot use the "facilities" the same as Japanese. Wake up.
 
And, no, I and other foreigners cannot use the "facilities" the same as Japanese. Wake up.

I agree. Six years and I still can't squat properly. >_<
 
Why is it that your country signed an international treaty against racism and discrimination over 10 years ago, yet has not enacted a single law to enforce that claim? Because they can't "hundle" it!
I think you misunderstand the difference between distinguish and discrimination.
I and other foreigners cannot use the "facilities" the same as Japanese. Wake up


they can buy duty free stuff:p
 
I think you misunderstand the difference between distinguish and discrimination.
Enlighten us, if you would.

Personally, I think you don't even recognize the meaning of the word discrimination, but I'd like to see you explain what you meant above.
 
I think you don't even recognize the meaning of the word discrimination, but I'd like to see you explain what you meant above

what is the discrimination?
What is the disadvantage by it?

It would cooperates with pleasure if I were you.
 
I would suggest here, that we keep the topic in mind, and not switch tracks to some other subject matter. It might also be considered, that our particular points of view on this matter have been fully expounded on; doing so might help prevent build-ups of emotional exchange.

Also, that some have very different views--regardless of inherent truth value or realism--might prove to kept in mind. That will also likely help us focus on where to stop...where the brick wall begins...the point beyond which trying to expound more on the subject only trips the logic and good argumentation switch, and leaves raw emotion--a sure fire starter on topics strongly felt about.
 
Thank you, Mars Man. I am getting pretty fed up with people who don't read the important information on a thread before they reply.

Caster,
Again, I don't understand what you are writing. You said "I think you misunderstand the difference between distinguish and discrimination." I asked what the difference was, in your mind. Please explain.

As for the other comment about me "cooperating with pleasure", I fully intend to obey the law here when I have to go through fingerprinting at airports. I don't agree with the human rights violation inherent in that policy, though, so there is no "pleasure" in abiding by a discriminatory policy and one that has no sound basis. Please tell me why you think the policy is so good. PLEASE read all the thread before saying what has been said before. If you don't say something new, I can only respond by saying I have already beaten this issue to the ground.
 
I don't agree with the human rights violation inherent in that policy


I think fingerprinting at airports has nothing to do with human rights violation.
i dont think The fingerprint handles them like the criminal.

I think most Japanese agree with that even if other country do that.
 
Strange. In the USA, I would find comfort in seeing large guns and german shepherds at the airport customs. But I would be disturbed if I had to give my fingerprints to customs every time I entered the country. Maybe it's because I am American. Giving my fingerprints would make me feel like a criminal.
 
OK, caster, thanks for explaining your point of view.

I totally disagree with it, but at least I understand where you are coming from.

Now what did you mean by a different in "distinguish and discrimination"? This is the third time I've asked (politely, too)!
 
Glenski, you and the SOFA guys have different visa.
If you want the official privileges from the US or diplomatic immunity, get the base-ralated jobs or be a diplomat.
That is nothing to do with discrimination.

Contribution to the countries where you are living, such as tax, pension or fingerprinting is nothing to do with discrimination. The US-Japan agreement on their pension scheme, moreover, enables your payment in Japan to be granted in the US one now.
Japanese expats also do them in the US, though I heard they complain of the inconvenience that they have to wait for a long time before they go through the interview in Tokyo/Naha.
 
Contribution to the countries where you are living, such as tax, pension or fingerprinting is nothing to do with discrimination.

Being fingerprinted does.

The US-Japan agreement on their pension scheme, moreover, enables your payment in Japan to be granted in the US one now.

Irrelevant.
 
What happens if I refuse to be fingerprinted?
If you visit the Embassy or Consulate for an interview and refused to have your fingerprints taken, your application will be refused on the basis that it is incomplete. If you later decide to have your fingerprints taken, then your application would be considered without prejudice.
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/visa/tvisa-niv-biofaq.html

This is what the human-right conscious country does.
It is quite simple.
 
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