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News The Senkaku issue

thomas

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You'd believe that the coronavirus pandemic has put other issues, such as the territorial conflict with China over the Senkakus, on the backburner. However, the opposite is true. China has stepped up its political and military posturing over the past months, gradually increasing its military presence around the archipelago. Now China even demands Japanese fishing boats stay clear of the islands.


On average, Japanese fighters scramble twice a day to intercept Chinese planes. The JSDF now responds with four fighters instead of two (I dread to think what that means for the Japanese taxpayers).


On 4 June, two China Coast Guard ships intruded into Japanese territorial waters for a record 39 hours and 23 minutes, the longest period of time since the islands were placed under Japanese state control in September 2012.


The Japanese government seems to be resolved to stand their ground. I’m just wondering why China escalates at this point when Sino-Japanese relations finally appear to have improved.
 

musicisgood

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You do realize that the Chinese govt. is doing all this **** around the world for one reason and that is to give them the reason to seize all foreign businesses in China. Very stupid of anyone to bring their business to China. And Trump has even pointed it out recently.
The good thing is this, Japan is NOT afraid of taking down an enemy airplane from China. I don't live that far from the SDF Air Base and yes, on average every 3 days about 4 fighter jets fly over going west, now I know the reason why.
Chinese people ( other than business sharks are nice people, a Chinese businessman I wouldn't trust them even with my eyes closed. Different cultures ).
 

Buntaro

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This is about much, much more than China trying to take over foreign companies in China. The Chinese Communists would very much like to grab other lands and ‘absorb’ them into China proper. One of those countries is Japan. A lot of this has to do with WWII.

I used to teach at a university in China, and I was shocked by how many of my Chinese students really, really hate Japanese people. Their hate of Japan is very strong. There is no social ‘rule’ in China against saying Japanese people are terrible people, quite the contrary, it is encouraged. One time I was surprised by a very anti-Japan poster in a Wal-mart that encouraged people to boycott Japanese products, and no one saw anything wrong with it

Why is this? WWII. The Japanese army committed terrible atrocities against Chinese people. In one city alone, Nanjing (Nanking), the Japanese army killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians. Chinese people have not forgotten and still have have a strong desire for vengeance, even to this day. I remember having a conversation about one of my students from Nanjing. Another student mereely said, “He is from Nanjing,” with the unspoken inference that to be from Naning means to hate Japan and Japanese people.

The fact is, China does not feel WWII is over, and would very much like to attack and wipe out Japan. This is an overwhelming feeling in China even today. Every night of the week you can watch an anti-Japanese WWII movie on Chinese TV. that whips up anti-Japanese sentiment.
 

nahadef

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@Buntaro ,
You have things half-right. Chinese are angry at Japan and other countries over WWII, but it’s not because they’re actually angry. It’s because the government made Chinese victim hood and anti-foreigner propaganda a cornerstone of Chinese education after the Tienammen Massacre.

Before that, propaganda was that China was the best! And Chinese could see that people were poor and really not the best. So they switched tactics to say, China is a victim! And it’s been very successful. The people have become nationistic, and manage to be the victim despite growing in power year by year and bullying their neighbors. It’s a car crash in slow motion

Japan was hit by atomic bombs in WWII, they’ve mostly moved on. America destroyed Vietnam in the 70s, Vietnam has moved on. Not moving on is a matter of Chinese government policy these days, because it distracts from the human rights crimes of the CCP

This is a six year old news piece on it, but still very much relevant today. You can listen or read the transcript Party On! - This American Life
 

nedkelly

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Firstly, It is annoying that the Western media continuously refer to “the Senkaku islands, also known as Diaoyu islands by China”. This circumlocution casts doubts on Japan’s sovereignty. Just call them the Senkaku Islands. Secondly I am pleased that the US government refers to activities of the “Chinese Communist Party” rather than “China” or “the Chinese”, because it is the CCP that is the problem.
 

spearsear

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I was born in China, immigrated to the US when I was 24 years old back in the 90's, Having seen China from inside and out each for over 2 decades and Know its culture deeply, I want to say something hopefully is objective enough.

Chinese people are not just born as Chinese, they are today's Chinese been fed with constant brain washing ideology from the government, the same Chinese if born at Taiwan or the early day's HK will not subject to this brain washing, hence You could almost clearly separate those Chinese from Mainland or Taiwan. Geneticly there is no difference, but we see obvious result that many Chinese Mainlander has these strong anti-Japan and self proudness because they were told year after year that China is huge and has over 5000 years of history and Japan had once mass slaughtered our people.... You would hear Chinese mainlander laugh at other countries only because they are small countries.

Ok but are these real Chinese or Chinese who is sick under the government ill ruling? I can tell you having lived in the US for over 2 decades, at least I myself has moved on and respect Japanese people and the culture of Japan, I view Japan as the model country in the far east where people live with dignity, people care for other people in the society, in every way today's Japan could be China's teacher. I even bothered myself to sign up this account in JREF to listen to what Japanese daily life are, and maybe make some lifelong Japanese friends, I am a Chinese by heritage, I know Chinese are not, and should not be like today's Chinese in mainland China, its only the size of the country making these problem be so huge, that some Japanese or even the world today, are turning their back against China and Chinese people. The fact is that, Chinese people are victims, yes in the history victims of WWII, but nowadays victims of their government. The more recent problem is more real and need to be addressed by the whole world.

I really hope in my life I could see Chinese people get their reputation back as the honest and loving and caring Chinese people world has once known. Because that is the real meaning of Chinese. I myself would try to prove it to any Japanese or people from any other country I can meet, that Chinese people are humble, nice, honest, respectable and worthy to be friend with!
 
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thomas

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Thank you for your thoughtful contribution!

It helps to dissociate the actions of the Chinese government from the “Chinese people”. Just as it helps not to generally associate “the Americans” with the actions of their current potus.
 

johnnyG

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On the one hand, yeah, Japan and the invasion/war. On the other, there's the Great Leap Forward, with something like 30-40 million dead (vs Nanjing--a high estimate is 300,000 dead). And then the Cultural Revolution, with about a million dead, along with several times that number crippled/broken.

Also, the 1800s (no blame-game these days for that era/wars, like for Japan). Western powers were basically drug cartels selling into China, and when trouble arose, troops were sent in and China was forced to cede territory besides losing control of its trade. 1894-95 (also kind of forgotten), was the last chapter of that century, with China ceding territories (this time) to Japan. (In spite of all their other evils, the Japanese were never drug dealers.)
 

johnnyG

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To blather on about this, a slightly later and more crucial turning point for history was the russian-japanese war about ten years later (1905). The russians wanted a warm water port, and had "leased" Port Douglas (present day Dalian) from the Qing. The japanese were not only nervous about russian influence extending down into korea, they had their own territorial dreams (having beaten the chinese earlier, and gained taiwan).

It kind of surprised the world that japan won this war against russia (i.e. surprised the US). Had russia won, I think east asia in the 20th century--its history--would have run a very different course. Russia also had eyes on Manchuria and Korea, so imagine if early on Russia had controlled those places instead of japan! No japanese "invasion" of china, korea might now be bitching and making cute statues about russian oppression thru the teens, twenties, and thirties. With US support, the chinese nationalists might have been fighting russians instead of japanese.

And if japan's expansionism had been dealt a blow by defeat at the hands of russia, and then no 'annexation' of korea, no invasion of china, and maybe there would not have been US-Japanese tensions/worries building into and thru the 30s, eventually leading the US to embargo fuel exports to japan (and steel?), commonly seen as a 'trigger' for the attack on pearl harbor. So maybe no Pacific war, Korea would never have been split, no Korean war...

The Philippines, attacked almost the same day as pearl, might not have been, and might still be a US territory (if the US had been able to pacify/put down the independence movement there).

And without Pearl Harbor, the US's entry into the war in europe may have happened differently. And so on...

All because the Russians lost in 1905. Imagine that! o_O
 

johnnyG

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There's one fellow I like to think of as something like Forrest Gump. He was John Allison.

Allison, believe it or not, was a friggin' english teacher (Odawara) before later becoming a US consul in china. Where, unfortunately, he somehow got hit in the face by a japanese soldier during the Nanjing massacre (If I've got the timeline right). Japan apologized, also for attacking a US gunboat, but Allison later helped on the Treaty of San Francisco, and then even later, became ambassador to japan. While he was ambassador, The US and Japan signed the mutual defense treaty. Key point here: the Japanese guy (Okazaki) he worked with on the treaty was the same officer who had apologized to him back in china.
 

nahadef

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It helps to dissociate the actions of the Chinese government from the “Chinese people”. Just as it helps not to generally associate “the Americans” with the actions of their current potus.
There’s a bit of a difference there, the people of China didn’t choose Xi. America on the other hand....
 

mdchachi

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There’s a bit of a difference there, the people of China didn’t choose Xi. America on the other hand....
Technically neither did America except through some technicalities (electoral college). The current potus did not win the popular vote.
 

thomas

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CNN reported on the burden the Japanese Air Self Defence Force faces every day:

"I think China wants to keep the JASDF off-balance and reactive, wear out its aircraft and aircrew, gain training and keep the pressure up daily on who owns the disputed islands," Layton told CNN. In a commentary last year written for The Interpreter blog from Australia's Lowy Institute, Layton detailed just how far the Chinese flights stretch the JASDF, and how China has the resources to push Japan to limits it may not be able to reach. "The JASDF's fleet of some 215 F-15J aircraft bears the brunt of scramble tasking," he wrote. "Since 2016, the JASDF has often launched four aircraft for each scramble. "These daily scrambles are gradually wearing the F-15J fleet out. The concern is that China has some six times more fighters than the JASDF, and could further ramp up intrusions whenever it considers appropriate. The in-service life of Japan's F-15J fleet is now almost a decision that lies with China," Layton said.


 

Uncle Frank

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Back in the day when I tracked the Russians , they sent 3 nuke bombers towards Japan about every two weeks. They would always turn around just before they hit Japanese airspace. One day they kept coming and boy did everyone get excited and jets were scrambled from Japan & Okinawa to intercept them. They finally turned around and nothing came of it. After Russia went broke so to speak , China has filled in their aggressive approach. They are pouring tons of money into building their military up , especially with new aircraft carriers. They are also spending a lot of time and money on setting up new bases anywhere in the world they are allowed to. They seem to have more aggressive policies in Hong Kong & even hinting they are going to take back Taiwan . The US Navy and Australian Navy have been ignoring their illegal boundaries they claim and sailing where they want. I have no doubts that if there is ever a WWIII , it will involve China. I still keep in touch with members in the intelligence community and their radar is on China.
 

thomas

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And the Russians are still probing Japanese airspace. They seem to be able to circumnavigate the entire archipelago with their Tu-95s.

flight-pattern-china-russia.jpg
 

4321go

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.... China has filled in their aggressive approach. ..

I don't quite understand the purpose of this strategy or posture.

A low-key strategy has been adopted for a long time.


It is so called "hide one's capabilities and bide one's time"

I don't think the aggressive image is good , at least ,not the time yet~
 

Uncle Frank

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We have to remember a lot of what our governments tell us is to instill fear so they can receive more tax money from us and we won't complain. I find it interesting that the US President does not believe much of what the intelligence community tells him. In todays world , it seems always telling the truth no longer matters. When I see things on the news or the internet , I feel about 1/4 "might be" truthful. Please be aware that my posts are just my personal opinion and might not be true.

fots.jpg
 
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Everytime I find posts like this, I realise I really can’t imagine being in that seat of power and forgetting everyone below me. It’s just so selfish sometimes it’s already a pain to think of.
 

johnnyG

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Japan should put the SDF on those islands ASAP. And then level them and create bases there, replicating what china is doing in the south china sea.

If not, the next chinese step after having a bunch of fishing boats hanging around guarded by government ships, will be to land those fishermen on the islands, as permanently as possible.

Oh, no, it won't be an 'invasion', per se, but from then on there will be chinese fishermen/citizens there on the senkakus.
 

Uncle Frank

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I think the Chinese government is really pushing to take Taiwan back. We have Navy ships patrolling around Taiwan almost 24/7 now to let them know it's not going to happen. They seem to be cracking down extra hard on Hong Kong too.
 

cocoichi

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Japan should put the SDF on those islands ASAP. And then level them and create bases there, replicating what china is doing in the south china sea.

If not, the next chinese step after having a bunch of fishing boats hanging around guarded by government ships, will be to land those fishermen on the islands, as permanently as possible.

Oh, no, it won't be an 'invasion', per se, but from then on there will be chinese fishermen/citizens there on the senkakus.
And those "fishermen" are most likely going to be military guys with fishing nets. Realistically, Japan will lose those islands. Talking does not work if your bully is deaf, and prepared to play a much more dirty game.

I read an interesting article a couple of weeks ago, about a Hong Kong billionaire who is in talks with Ireland to buy a peace of land to build a brand new Hong Kong, far away from Chinese influence. Will be interesting to see how that develops.
 

musicisgood

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Biden =double-talk
It is true about the section 5 of the defense treaty.

The Chinese Air forces wearing down the Japanese Air Force by military planes and the pilots themselves.
 
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