Japan plans foreign fingerprinting

[caster51]

I think the other county would need it like Japan.
if I was requested it in foreign country .....

I have no problem about that.

the begining of its history was GHQ's proposition

 

[Davey]

I found this video today:Video: Why Japanese Immigration Will Fingerprint All Foreigners

 

[marsans]

I found this video today:Video: Why Japanese Immigration Will Fingerprint All Foreigners

Apart from the voice acting being very humorous, it seems to make sense and be pretty simple. Seems like the only people who would mind this would be people who have something to hide.

 

[Taiko666]

Seems like the only people who would mind this would be people who have something to hide.

Very, very wrong. People who mind this don't like been subjected to unwarranted indignities. If you've nothing to hide, I think I'd like to search your house...

And if Japan was your home, and you had a Japanese family, would you mind standing in line to have your fingerprints and mugshot taken every time you returned home? While your wife and kids breeze through with their dignity intact?

One of the few courtesies that Japan extends to permanent and long term residents is the current system of being able to fast track through immigration in the Japanese passport-holders queue. It makes you feel very welcome in an otherwise unwelcoming country. Now, it's 'please line up with the other potential criminals, gaijin-sama.'

 

[Taiko666]

I think the other county would need it like Japan.
if I was requested it in foreign country .....
I have no problem about that.
the begining of its history was GHQ's proposition

If you moved permanently to the USA, would you happy giving your fingerprint every time you entered the country for the rest of your life?

 

[frostyg02uk]

I dont mind giving my fingerprints at all. Even though the only terrorist attack has been homegrown there was threats a few years ago because Japan were helping america in iraq (Just like what happened to England) even though they didnt actually send soliders. I think every country should do it in a fight against crime also as a foreignor could commit a crime but leave the country a week or even few days later. If you consider america cancels your Visa and sends you home with no refund of a 400£+ ticket everytime they dont feel safe (no matter what country you come from including white british nationals) I dont think its a big deal.

 

[8bit.vis]

I don't really understand how the fingerprinting campaign can be considered to be 'for the protection of the immigrant' whose prints are taken. The essential presumption is that foreign entries into a country have less of a connection to that country and are therefore more likely to abuse it; in this case, the specific justification offered seems to be combating terrorism. Which, by the way, isn't such an outlandish idea - regardless of the fact that Japan has not yet been attacked by foreign terrorists. But with regard to the law-breaking, whilst the notion might be intuitively true, generally speaking anyway, I am not sure how well it applies with specificity to Japan. I seem to recall somebody once linking to statistics which illustrated immigrants to be committing crimes at a proportionally lower rate than native Japanese?

Ultimately, the most glaring problem with regulations like this is the potential for abuse. As others have observed, mistakes can and do happen when matching fingerprints and people who've done nothing wrong can and do suddenly find themselves being unjustly dragged through some horror. However, the observation some people have made about being "treated like a criminal" holds, I think, only if being fingerprinted is usually associated in Japan with criminal activity. And even if it is, there are obviously examples of being fingerprinted there - say, for employment in a sensitive government sector - where no such connotation applies. What becomes important then is how the Japanese media decides to spin the issue; are gaijin or are gaijin not being portrayed as belonging to a criminal element while news of the fingerprinting / photographing campaign is reported on Japanese television.

With all of that said, I don't think I will have any objection to being printed and photographed and whatever else when I go. Whilst the "you have nothing to hide, so why object" argument is in my humble opinion a poor one, I just do not feel particularly threatened by this. I would be more worried about possibly reinforcing problematic social implications (gaijin = criminals) than about the occasional clerical mistake or the errant case of genuinely sadistic police work. And even along the lines of that worry, things like it being legal to be refused housing simply because of one's status as a foreigner seems like much more of a significant issue. No?

So with that, I shrug.

I should also probably admit up front that I wouldn't generally deign to protest or otherwise participate in a country's internal politics by any means other than simply leaving that country - voting with my feet, as they say - unless a) I had actually acquired naturalized citizenship, or b) I had married a Japanese citizen. But that's just me.

 

[Masamune_74]

I think every major country that can afford this should have it. keeps the creeps out. Hooray for you Japan, I will willingly give you my prints and handsome face. CHU!

 

[8bit.vis]

I think every major country that can afford this should have it. keeps the creeps out.

That's debatable, isn't it? It certainly would keep a contingent of common criminals out, but there might not be anything statistically significant about those coming from without as opposed to within. It is unlikely to, for example, stop a heavily funded terrorist operation. And so the question comes down to who is immigrating and what the crime-rate is like; if the rate is lower than the native population, then the whole program of targeting immigrants exclusively becomes one of questionable value.

 

[hplaserjet6p]

you can see the stat here
h t t p: / / w w w . pa.go.jp/sosikihanzai/kokusaisousa/kokusai2/contents.htm
over the years, the crime commited by foreigners is increasing.

isnt it easier for japanese police to cooperate with foreign police if it had fingerprints?

 

[Masamune_74]

May as well go with retinal scans while their at it, you have to have some major hardware and software to beat those. I am up for anything that keeps one safe even if is a bit inconvenient for me.

 

[8bit.vis]

isnt it easier for japanese police to cooperate with foreign police if it had fingerprints?

That's a good point. It might make interpol more effective. I hadn't thought about people who had committed crimes elsewhere, fleeing to Japan with the intent of evading prosecution by living quietly. Something else to consider.

 

[Petaris]

My feeling on this is the same as my feeling about the US doing this (and more), I think it goes overboard. They already scan our passports which have our photo ID and other information on them, why do they need to do this? Also I do feel that it equates to treating visitors to their country as criminals. Its like saying, "Your a foreigner and were pretty sure your here to break our laws and cause general havoc so we just figured we would get your fingerprints and mug shots out of the way now rather then having to do it later."

As for the "if you have nothing to hide" argument, just because I haven't done anything wrong doesn't mean that I don't have things I would like to keep personal or private. Some things are just no ones business but my own, or my families. People have the right to privacy, its the governments that need to be open for inspection.

Just my 2¥

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I am a big advocate of personal and political freedom (which is one of the reasons that, although I probably never do it on these fora, I am a noisy critic of my own government), I see fingerprinting as something that I feel can protect me rather than threaten my rights.

I have nothing to hide, and I am more annoyed by the government snooping around on people's hard drives looking for music (as opposed to bomb plans) than I would be if I was fingerprinted.

It may be inconvenient, but I don't see it as being overboard. My fingerprint proves that I am who I say I am beyond any and all doubts. In my opinion, that protects me. I have nothing to hide.

 

[frostyg02uk]

My point on it helping against crime is this example.

A child abuser left DNA on his last crime scene but it took 4 more years and 3 more abused children to catch him because he wasnt on the database. So say someone was murdered in Japan but then in a week the foriegnor left the country never to return even though the police might have their DNA or fingerprints that person will never be caught due to lack of information. Id rather give up my prints and be safer then not. And taking someones prints takes less then 2 minutes. If it was my choice id be taking your DNA.

 

[Masamune_74]

I am a big advocate of personal and political freedom (which is one of the reasons that, although I probably never do it on these fora, I am a noisy critic of my own government), I see fingerprinting as something that I feel can protect me rather than threaten my rights.
I have nothing to hide, and I am more annoyed by the government snooping around on people's hard drives looking for music (as opposed to bomb plans) than I would be if I was fingerprinted.
It may be inconvenient, but I don't see it as being overboard. My fingerprint proves that I am who I say I am beyond any and all doubts. In my opinion, that protects me. I have nothing to hide.

Couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Goldiegirl]

I don't mind fingerprinting. I had to be fingerprinted here in the US just to open an account at my local Credit Union. I think with the relative ease of traveling around the world it is a good idea.

 

[pipokun]

Try to use an airport where the x-ray ditector is broken.
It was a small domestic airport in an Asian country and nothing happened as an airport staff assured me, but you come to know how important the airport secrity is.

Some soccer players from South America come to Japan via Europe. It takes more time than via the US, but it is more convenient for them not to waste time for their transit visa.
See your transit cages in the US, and you realise how your govenment sees foreign nationals.

And many thanks for your visa waiver program.

 

[Ewok85]

isnt it easier for japanese police to cooperate with foreign police if it had fingerprints?

No, and for one simple reason. The Japanese police lack a system which can take advantage of this.

I object for 3 reasons.

1) Why should I give fingerprints when they do not have a system that can use my fingerprints effectively?

2) How long until we get this? Weekend feature: American homeland security

3) Why should those who live here permanently but have not surrendered their citizenship also be subjected to this, while some others are let off?

 

[Taiko666]

you can see the stat here
h t t p: / / w w w . pa.go.jp/sosikihanzai/kokusaisousa/kokusai2/contents.htm
over the years, the crime commited by foreigners is increasing.

hplaserjet, I'm sad that you've allowed yourself to be tricked by the Japanese media and politicians, like so many other Japanese. I would've thought that someone who is living abroad would be more open-minded.

Please read the following articles.

www.debito.org: Arudou Debito Japan Times Article on Foreign Crime Stats

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?fl20021004zg.htm

 

[Taiko666]

That's a good point. It might make interpol more effective. I hadn't thought about people who had committed crimes elsewhere, fleeing to Japan with the intent of evading prosecution by living quietly. Something else to consider.

It's not possible to flee 'to Japan with the intent of evading prosecution by living quietly.'

If you want to stay more than 3 or 6 months you need to get a visa- almost impossible if you're a wanted felon. And even staying on a tourist visa, being a foreigner you'd stick out like a sore thumb. Hardly a good way to keep a low profile.

 

[Taiko666]

Try to use an airport where the x-ray ditector is broken.
It was a small domestic airport in an Asian country and nothing happened as an airport staff assured me, but you come to know how important the airport secrity is.
Some soccer players from South America come to Japan via Europe. It takes more time than via the US, but it is more convenient for them not to waste time for their transit visa.
See your transit cages in the US, and you realise how your govenment sees foreign nationals.
And many thanks for your visa waiver program.

Who is this reply directed to? Presumably the American posters here, most of whom are actually not against fingerprinting.

Yes, the US Government treats foreigners badly at airports.

We non-USA citizens must suffer indignities going through US Immigration. Is that why Japan wants to do the same? Just to copy the USA (again?) Mind you, even the USA doesn't fingerprint residents of the country.

My point on it helping against crime is this example.
A child abuser left DNA on his last crime scene but it took 4 more years and 3 more abused children to catch him because he wasnt on the database. So say someone was murdered in Japan but then in a week the foriegnor left the country never to return even though the police might have their DNA or fingerprints that person will never be caught due to lack of information. Id rather give up my prints and be safer then not. And taking someones prints takes less then 2 minutes. If it was my choice id be taking your DNA.

Then fingerprinting should be mandatory for all people, not just foreigners. It's the Japanese perception that only foreigners commit crime which is the major part of the indignity here.

 

[Taiko666]

I don't mind fingerprinting. I had to be fingerprinted here in the US just to open an account at my local Credit Union. I think with the relative ease of traveling around the world it is a good idea.

The difference here is that everybody has to be fingerprinted to get an account. In Japan, it's only foreigners who are deemed a security risk.

 

[8bit.vis]

It's not possible to flee 'to Japan with the intent of evading prosecution by living quietly.'
If you want to stay more than 3 or 6 months you need to get a visa- almost impossible if you're a wanted felon. And even staying on a tourist visa, being a foreigner you'd stick out like a sore thumb. Hardly a good way to keep a low profile.

I was thinking more along the lines of falsifying one's papers, which would follow from attempting to flee any country with a criminal record. Fingerprinting vs an interpol database would defeat this. As for sticking out, eg being a foreigner, I don't think that would much matter unless you were some kind of high profile celebrity criminal. The point of hiding in a foreign country is evading domestic police.

 

[pipokun]

Who is this reply directed to? Presumably the American posters here, most of whom are actually not against fingerprinting.
Yes, the US Government treats foreigners badly at airports.
We non-USA citizens must suffer indignities going through US Immigration. Is that why Japan wants to do the same? Just to copy the USA (again?) Mind you, even the USA doesn't fingerprint residents of the country.

It was by the UN resolution that Japan introduces anti-terrorist measures.
Ask Debito to sue the UN.

I heard the US will modernise the VWP.
According to a Japanese media, we'll have to register our personal information though the internet before we go there.
Ask Debito to sue the US.

And most importantly, we cannot arrest Kim Jong-il or Osama bin Laden for conspiracy here, for the Japanese penal law is not based on the British/US ones.
Ask Debito to sue Japan.

About the inefficient Heathrow and the horribly expensive tube...
I sincerely ask you to sue your govenment.