Female Submission and Male Dominance

[calmside]

Hi,

I haven't really posted on this site before so seeming as this thread relates to me, I will briefly introduce myself. I am a 24 year old Australian guy living in Yokkaichi-Shi in Mie (for those who don't know Yokkaichi, it is a 35min trip on the express train towards Osaka from Nagoya Station on the Kintetsu line). I have a 25 year old Japanese girlfriend who lives with her family near Nagoya's Centrair airport and I have a problem that relates to her family.

As I have become better aquainted with my girlfriends family I have seen how they interact with each other and have noticed that my girlfriend's brother (23) seems to have some anger management problems along with others. The problem that is growing daily is that my girlfriend's brother is treating her like a slave and I hate it. What I hate even more is my girlfriend's willingness to put up with this misstreatment.
I will give a couple of examples of his behaviour to put this in context for people:

When we go out together (the whole family for dinner, sightseeing etc) in the van and we are sitting in the car together, he will point to the aircleanser button which is quite easily reachable for him then my girlfriend will submissively push it for him.

The other week I stayed for a couple of days at my girlfriend's house while I had some time off work. At night, my girlfriend had cooked dinner for the family and we had just eaten what I must say was a delicious meal. Her brother had decided that he would eat dinner later because he wanted to drive off to an electrical store to buy something. Anyway, at about 10pm he tried his dinner and told my girlfriend that he didn't like her cooking and wanted her to take him to a restraunt. I decided to go along because I didn't like the fact that he was making her drive for him.
We got into the van with him sitting in the back, marevelling at his own importance as he directed my girlfriend on how to drive the car as she only drives about once a year and so isn't very good. After driving for 2 minutes then attempting reverse parking for 20 minutes so that the backseat driver could feel whatever it is he feels, we arrived at a noodle bar and sat in silence while my girlfriend's brother ate his meal which she paid for. I was sitting there at the time trying to figure out: firstly why he didn't walk because it would have been quicker, secondly why he felt it necissary to have his sister with him at all times, thirdly why my girlfriend was so submissive to him and lastly why he was such a <expletive deleted>.

When my girlfriend and I are out somewhere alone together or when she is out with her friends, he will continually send her messages on her phone or call her up and scream for her to go home immediately because he wants her there and more often than not she obeys. Just a couple of weeks ago I was walking her to the train station because she was going into Nagoya to visit some friends who were in town from Tokyo but she ended up going home because of her brother's demands.
At a later time I asked her why she submitted and what her family does about the problem. To sum up her reply: he yells until he gets what he wants and if that doesn't work he becomes violent. As to what she and her family does her reply was: "my parents are old and I am a girl so we fight but he is a man so he hits harder".
I asked her why her parents hadn't kicked him out of the house or at least threatened to, and her response was that people don't do that in Japan.




Has anyone else encountered this type of Japanese male dominance before and Japanese female submission? In my girlfriend's family it seems to be tolerated or ignored which makes me furious.

I would love to hear from anyone but especially Japanes women or guys who have been in a relationship with a Japanese woman.

Please, please, please respond if you have anything even slightly helpful to say!

 

[Mars Man]

Hi there calmside san !! and welcome to the forum!!

I am now in my second marriage, this one having been of 18 years now, to women who were and are Japanese nationals. I have never seen anything like the situation in your girlfriend's family, although I have read of somewhat similar things in 'Ask Ann Landers'-like newspaper 'help' columns.

I woud tend to think that the situation had been encouraged from earlier on with lack of discipline--I mean from pre-elementary school, perhaps. In a case like this, I would unfortunately have to admit that I don't think it would be wise to expect any changes.

If she remains your girlfriend, and you two live anywhere near there (or maybe in Japan, for all that matter) you will have to put up with it--or fight (so to speak). The latter may well cause the loss of the relationship anyway.

One very, very important thing is, you'll have to get her honest and firm decision. . . you or him (the family). There can be no inbetweens, I do feel.

I wish you the best of luck and love. . .in that regards. How long have you two been seeing each other? Where did you meet? Japan? Another country? How long have you been in or have studied about Japanese culture? (just to try to find a lead. . .) MM

 

[ArmandV]

The only reason he acts this way is because they all let him get away with it. Since her parents are older and there's no other male siblings, there had been no one to stand up to him. It might be risky for your relationship, but maybe you should put him in his place.

 

[calmside]

QUOTE=Mars Man]One very, very important thing is, you'll have to get her honest and firm decision. . . you or him (the family). There can be no inbetweens, I do feel.
I wish you the best of luck and love. . .in that regards. How long have you two been seeing each other? Where did you meet? Japan? Another country? How long have you been in or have studied about Japanese culture? (just to try to find a lead. . .) MM[/QUOTE]

Thanks Mars Man.

I've been thinking that maybe I should present that choice to her and see who she decides.

To answer your questions and put things into context a little more clearly I have only been living in Japan for just under 4 months and met my girlfriend fairly soon after I arrived. I met her in Nagoya while she was doing a temp job for vodafone working as a promotions girl. As I stood looking like a lost sheep on the corner of a main road while trying to find a mexican restraunt she walked up to me, spoke in english and helped me out. I went off to the mexican restraunt and agonised for 2 hours over whether or not I should go back to that vodafone shop and ask the gorgeous kindhearted person who I couldn't stop thinking about to come back to a bar with myself and the friend I was now with. Anyway I decided that I was already so far out of my comfort zone having moved to Japan that I might as well make an *** of myself and get rejected by a beautiful girl. To my surprise she actually took me up the offer and brought a friend along too. It wasn't for about a month after we met each other that we actually started going out together though.

To give further example of her brother's behaviour here are a couple of text messages she sent me a few weeks back on my cellphone.

"I'll fight with him today.He says his gona break my cellphone.I'll hide
it to somewhere.Maybe I can't reply sms today.Sorry."

"I'll hide my cellphone again. Ill see timing to send you sms.So plz
dont worry about late reply which I will"

"Sorry that you worried about that.But it's ok now.Plz dont worry.Tue,
Maybe I can meet you at Nagoya."

Just recently we have been talking about getting a small apartment in Nagoya together. However, she's worried that her family and relatives will think she's a **** if she moves out with her boyfriend. She said that people in Japan don't normally live together unless they are engaged or married.
She had originally stated the idea in passing but I thought it was a good idea when I thought that I wouldn't have to think of her living with her brother anymore.
I sent her a message on her phone talking about an apartment I had found in Nagoya and included this in the message.

"I could see you everyday and not worry about your brother hurting you"

Her brother was playing with her phone at the time and intercepted the message. This happened just today and she rang and told me about it and said that her brother was now angry with me. Once again it looks like it is a struggle between me and her ties to her family. I'm just wondering what her brother is going to do now that he knows we are considering moving out together.

 

[calmside]

Yes ArmandV,
It has been very tempting for me to beat the crap out of him but I've been restraining myself as I'm sure it would simply drive myself and my girlfriend apart. As for simply confronting him with the fact that I'm angry with the way he treats my girlfriend, I'm still considering that possibility but it is a delicate situation and I don't want to start ripping apart her family or make the situation even worse.

 

[ArmandV]

Yes ArmandV,
It has been very tempting for me to beat the crap out of him but I've been restraining myself as I'm sure it would simply drive myself and my girlfriend apart. As for simply confronting him with the fact that I'm angry with the way he treats my girlfriend, I'm still considering that possibility but it is a delicate situation and I don't want to start ripping apart her family or make the situation even worse.

There's other ways of putting the dude in his place besides violence. Perhaps inviting him for a drink somewhere and talking it out might do the trick. Does the guy have a job? Maybe he's got some issues (obviously he does) and needs to have a friend so he can unload.

If that doesn't work. You can also use subtle methods (like a glare, body language, etc.). Maybe the bottom line is that perhaps getting your gf out of there is what's needed.

 

[calmside]

It's not a bad idea asking the guy out for a drink and talking with him but the guy never actually goes out to the pub or really anywhere for that matter. He just seems to like to stay in his own little stomping ground where he can be king of the castle, in fact I don't think he actually has any friends and I'm curious as to why.
If that is the case then you would definately be right about him needing a friend to unload but it seems that the only way he knows how to relate to people is by demanding his own way. I'm at a loss as to how I can try to get him to have a reasonable discussion.

Any ideas?

 

[pipokun]

Just keep posting.





ﾆ値ﾆ耽窶堙≫?堙帚?堋｢窶堋ｯ窶堙?..

 

[Mars Man]

Does he seem to like TV games? Playing some of those could be a good way to kind of break the ice.

However, there is a danger, I would tend to think. There will have to be some line drawn (in your mind) as to how friendly and kind you will be to him and beyond that you should not stray; otherwise you may end up unable to escape the pull of that black hole.

Again, her position is important (as I've said before) because then you both may be able to face him in some sort of manner; and possibly deal with it.

You are in a fix, however. Ah for the twists and turns of fate !! Ah for all those 'ifs' we can dream up rectroactively. I wish you all the best. MM

 

[misa.j]

Hi calmside, welcome to the forum!

I have an older brother who lives in Japan, fortunately, I never had problems like your girlfriend is having with him. He was always one of those cool brothers that I wanted to hang out with.

I would be, like other members, interested in to hear how he reacts when you say something to him. Maybe he needs a strong male role model.

It makes me a little worried, though to hear that he becomes violent when he doesn't get his way. From reading your post, he doesn't seem to have much respect for your girlfriend. Domestic violence in Japan tends to be overlooked because the victims often don't report it.
I hope things will go well for you and your girlfriend. Please, keep us updated! Good luck!

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Chances are your girlfriend will chose her family anyway, this is a textbook example of domestic abuse, it has taken years for her brother to degrade her to the level where she puts up with that, I'm familiar enough with japanese women to know most are quite verbal and strong-willed, faced with a man or otherwise, when they want to be.

I bang heads with my girlfriend all the time, two strong willed people, and by god I love it.

I think your best bet is to get your girlfriend away from her brother, and maybe family, all you can do is hope you can get through to her and convince her to stand up for herself, even if that means distancing herself from him, he is clearly not all there, possibly a bit unstable, way too controlling beyond all reason.

The problem is you havnt known her that long, and you should only considor this if you have any intention of you and her being a long term, hoping for life kinda deal.

Thats not really a decision you can make out of the blue though.

Perhaps you could get her friends to help you convince her to go her own way, or to get her parents to take some action against him, but he is their only son, in Japan you dont take an only son for granted.

Tough situation I dont think i can really offer any serious advice, and nothing beyond what I've already given, hopefully you'll figure something out.

Best of luck.

 

[pipokun]

any updates?





6ﾅ?窶楪?ｨﾅｽﾃ?窶堙債心窶掏窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堋ｽ窶堙ｨ窶堙?窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ
4ﾅ?窶楪?ｨﾅｽN窶堋ｵﾂｱﾂｹﾃ

 

[The-Beautiful-Roses]

It can happen anywhere.

Uhm... well it happens a lot in my family also. My older brother has that type of problem with me and my little sister, but mostly with me since I don't cry to my mother. No we aren't japanese, but it does happen in the US too.
There are times when I refuse to get him something, or do something for him and he either would take something I dearly posess and wouldn't give it back till I did the chore, he would scream inches away from my face, or bruise my arms and ask me to fight back.
It isn't bad anymore since I have learned some defense in martial arts and his carreer schedule is starting to get more busy, but sometimes I wonder if he treats his new girlfriend badly?

 

[Minty]

I would love to hear from anyone but especially Japanes women or guys who have been in a relationship with a Japanese woman.
Please, please, please respond if you have anything even slightly helpful to say!

I don't think this kind of male chauvinism is only occurring in Japan. Your story just sounds like you met a very spoil kid or young adult, and since he is his parent's only son and that they are old, I think the situation will favour him.