Doubts On Islam

[Timeous]

"BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What you're saying is all wrong. Allah doesn't exist. It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God. He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ. Don't be kidding me. You're living a lie believing in Islam. . He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ."

haha, you spoke without thinking.
so you worship the christian god of yours
your god married a woman? where did that woman came from? is she your god creation as well? then she gave birth a man that you called jesus? then why did you say "It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God" while you worship the jesus as well? then you worship two god at the same time, right? not in accordance with what you said before
i wanna know your way of thinking if you don't mind, are you just have faith on them without reason? i'm quite curious
and it's quite funny that you said "He made it all", then you meant he made the Al-Qur'an as well. funny

"Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.

Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful."
it seems that the country where i live in has some quite bad reputation outside, well don't worry, i'm not a republic nor democrate person, i'm a Moslem fanatics, so i'm completely enemy to every single persons who don't follow the sama religion as me. i'm not a nationalist, so your people won't be too welcome in my country, don't feel bad about that okay, 'giggle'.
and sorry if i have a bad english, because i just learned english from games

 

[Mycernius]

Timeous you have been told how to use the quote function. Use it.

your existence is the proof, where do you think all of existence like human, animal, trees, this earth, sun, and the whole universe existence came from?
do you think all of it came from nowhere else?
or you're gonna say that's just natural?
then where did naturality came from?
can you explain that?
i can
where do you think that i could get that explanation?

That is not evidence that is an assertion. Humans evolved, life came from abiogenesis. the planets were formed by stellar formation. We know evolution is true, it has been observed. We know stellar formation happens, it has been observed. We can fabricated certain proteins and amino acids that are needed for life in the laboratory. All these are natural and at no point is allah present at any of them. As for the universe no-one knows, but there is no critically robust evidence that it was created by a sky daddy, much less yours.

can get all of those explanation from Al-Qur'an
Allah give us guidance, that's originally by Qur'an and His Rosul
those are assertions along with the facts
if you're gonna ask what's the proof of Allah existence, that even we can't see Him

Scripture is not evidence. If it was we would have to accept all scripture as evidence which includes, hindu, shinto , buddhism, etc. Are you willing to take any other religious writings as evidence? Thought not. The quran and allahs existance are assertions they are not facts. In fact your answer to this is nothing but assertion. You have no evidence.

your answer shows you that you lack of knowledge, so don't speak something that you don't understand
'Islam is the rule', Moslem are those who follow Islam rule, if a Moslem damaging, he'll only damaging himself and the thing that he damaged, if he did that, he doesn't deserves to be called a Moslem, because Islam never teach anything like that.

No true scotsman fallacy. Your arguement is false

and from what i know,that plane incident, not Moslem who did that
that's a conspiracy made by what i called you before, 'jews'

what? al-Qaeda even took credit for it, a muslim organisation. The pilots were muslims. You have been sucked into the conspiracy nuts who don't want to admit that this stunt was pulled off by muslim terrorists backed by a islamic terror organisation.

female circumcision, you really don't understand at all, have see the reason for that before denied it? almost not different like the men, to reduce their lust of 5ex

Mutilation of anyone is barbaric and wrong. It is commited by immoral people forcing their bronze age beliefs onto women. How about if I cut your penis off to reduce your sex drive?
People can overcome their lust without resorting to such cruel methods, or don't you trust women?

this organisation from what i said before is just an example
they're traitor, i gave you example before didn't i?
they deserve that

Ladies and gentlemen I give you a muslim who beliefs if you leave islam you derserve to die, and you wonder why people doubt islam and its beliefs.

Moslem divided into two, Mu'min and hypocrite, hypocrite aren't different with infidel
but it doesn't mean that they who did that are the hypocrites, it might be that they don't quite know about Jihad

No true scotman fallacy, again.

Allah is not man nor woman, genders are His creation that specially created for human and jinn, the answer for this question is the same as the first paragraph.

Oh really, then why is it always refered to as a he in your big book of myths? You still haven't given any evidence that the sky daddy exists. Remember, scripture is not evidence.

 

[Haruspex]

"BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What you're saying is all wrong. Allah doesn't exist. It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God. He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ. Don't be kidding me. You're living a lie believing in Islam. . He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ."

haha, you spoke without thinking.
so you worship the christian god of yours
your god married a woman? where did that woman came from? is she your god creation as well? then she gave birth a man that you called jesus? then why did you say "It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God" while you worship the jesus as well? then you worship two god at the same time, right? not in accordance with what you said before
i wanna know your way of thinking if you don't mind, are you just have faith on them without reason? i'm quite curious
and it's quite funny that you said "He made it all", then you meant he made the Al-Qur'an as well. funny

"Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.

Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful."
it seems that the country where i live in has some quite bad reputation outside, well don't worry, i'm not a republic nor democrate person, i'm a Moslem fanatics, so i'm completely enemy to every single persons who don't follow the sama religion as me. i'm not a nationalist, so your people won't be too welcome in my country, don't feel bad about that okay, 'giggle'.
and sorry if i have a bad english, because i just learned english from games

Ahahaha. He fell for it. I thought he wasn't gonna, but damn he fell for it. Not the brightest guy on earth, eh?

 

[Hezam]

Ahahaha. He fell for it. I thought he wasn't gonna, but damn he fell for it. Not the brightest guy on earth, eh?

=_= Yes he did...I warned everyone here but some of them fell x_x.
This poof that there is a God who sent prophets to us but many of us fell << ne ne ?
Nothing less than Derfel

 

[Yukiko chan]

As I've stated already, I think many problems stem from fundamental misunderstanding between the Occident and the Middle-East. You need a lot of patience to sort those problems and to clarify the points of controversy.

Examples? we wont go far, lets see the very recent events.
- France, Italy, Denmark and their ban efforts for the face veil....yet claim to be tolerating! check the BBC site and you will see.

Face veil? You mean Burqa? I beg to differ Hime, I don't see any intolerance here.
Hiding your face in public can make people around you feel uneasy, to say the least, even if it's done by an innocent woman who's only concern is to abide by the teachings of her religion. But there's also a security concern: last year I read a news story about several Pakistani terrorists who tried to escape by wearing burqas. I have no idea how they were caught, or actually I don't remember, but the point is, hiding your face, even partially, can make identification quasi-impossible, hence what you might see as a mere religious practice, may actually pose security threats, especially in an age where your religion is being pointed at as the source of terrorism of all sorts. If these women are so fervent and want to follow what they believe is a teaching of their god, they could simply move to a world region where such a practice is a cultural norm, or at least mildly acceptable, i.e. somewhere in the Middle-East or North Africa. But oh wait! I forgot that women in Islam are not allowed to travel (or even go out for a long distance) without being accompanied by a man (husband, son, father, uncle, etc... anyone with whom a sexual relationship would be considered incestuous). This fact casts a new light on the burqa case: so far, I have deliberately spoken of those women as if they had made their own free choice to wear burqa. But one wonders if there's anything that could be assimilated to freedom of choice for a being that is supposed to be, by some imaginary divine authority, under the jurisdiction of a man from birth to death.

- Switzerland: They are working on banning building the minarets of mosques!

That's a pretty controversial issue, and I'm not sure myself where to stand on it. I can see the visual pollution problem: many people consider minarets too ugly to espouse their environing landscape, and I agree that it's quite disconcerting to see an Islamic minaret in the middle of a Swiss village. Furthermore, minarets are of no use since the prayer calling (Adhan) is not allowed in the first place (that's their original purpose as far as I know). On the other hand, I consider it a primary right for any minority to express itself, without transgressing the laws of their country of residence.

- See how Islam is attacked in many sites

I don't have figures, but there are probably more sites criticizing Christianity and Judaism, in my own estimation. Why would Islam be exempt of criticism? You may believe that it represents the epitome of truth and perfection, but there are many who don't and are willing to voice their disapproval. I for one see many imperfections in Islam and many contradictions and scientific errors in the Koran.

- See how the western Media is careful to ruin the Islam image to the world.

"Careful", maybe not; but there's a lot of anti-Islam propaganda. Though Islam itself cannot be considered an innocent victim. I shudder every time I recall the executions of 13 year old girls for adultery (or the like) by the Islamic government in Somalia.

Do you think that Wikipedia will be honest on that? Actually I don't trust Wikipedia when it comes to anything regard religions in general. Keep in mind that not all the cases of conversion to Islam is recorded, so many of them are just done in mosques and many hide it so they wont be abused by their families.

That article was probably written by several authors, and is very well referenced. Besides, it doesn't say that Islam isn't the fastest growing religion; it simply points out to the fact that such an assertion cannot be absolutely verified, and that other religions can claim that title as well. Of course, Wikipedia isn't my Bible (I don't have one for the record), but this wasn't a call to believe or reject what was written on that page: it was a call to think and analyze; what do you reject in that article? On what ground? Like Mycernius said, many sheiks want you to believe certain things about reality. But reality is too complex to be apprehended with beliefs and wishful thinking: only a scientific mind, I think, has a good chance to fathom that complexity, and bring it closer to understanding. I would personally prefer to answer "I don't know", than come up with a wishful thought or a non supported argument.

Yup, I don't think that all cases of conversion to Islam are recorded, but the same could be said about conversions to Christianity or Buddhism.
I don't think Muslim converts in Europe or the US need to hide their religion. All constitutions in Europe, the US and Canada grant the freedom of belief and religion to their citizens. Family could pose a problem in some cases indeed, but not to the extent of abusing a family member just because they've practiced a civil right (well, possibly in some small communities in Germany for example, but they would be legally inculpated for aggression). In fact, I'd be more concerned about the situation of apostates in Islamic countries, where the concept of "freedom of belief" is non existent...

By the way, speaking of belief/unbelief here's a blog (in Arabic) that you might "enjoy". It may sound more or less offensive to you, and I don't agree with some of the blogger's statements and word choices.


You may have the reflex to take the side of Islam as a mere victim in all situations, but I think you need to try to understand the "other side" as well, in order to avoid bias. Some questions needn't be answered by black or white only. There are other shades or colors to be taken into account. Is it really necessary for a woman to wear burqa, or even a "normal" veil? Is it really necessary for a mosque to have a minaret? Is Islam the absolutely beautiful and perfect religion you were raised to believe?
These are examples of questions that you might need to ask yourself...


Regards, Greg

 

[Hezam]

Zoon van Ijs,I admire your way of discussing things !

You may have the reflex to take the side of Islam as a mere victim in all situations, but I think you need to try to understand the "other side" as well, in order to avoid bias. Some questions needn't be answered by black or white only. There are other shades or colors to be taken into account. Is it really necessary for a woman to wear burqa, or even a "normal" veil? Is it really necessary for a mosque to have a minaret? Is Islam the absolutely beautiful and perfect religion you were raised to believe?
These are examples of questions that you might need to ask yourself...

This is the best post i read here !
I can see the objectivity/pragmatism through your post.

 

[Yopparai]

"BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What you're saying is all wrong. Allah doesn't exist. It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God. He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ. Don't be kidding me. You're living a lie believing in Islam. . He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ."
haha, you spoke without thinking.
so you worship the christian god of yours
your god married a woman? where did that woman came from? is she your god creation as well? then she gave birth a man that you called jesus? then why did you say "It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God" while you worship the jesus as well? then you worship two god at the same time, right? not in accordance with what you said before
i wanna know your way of thinking if you don't mind, are you just have faith on them without reason? i'm quite curious
and it's quite funny that you said "He made it all", then you meant he made the Al-Qur'an as well. funny
"Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.
Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful."
it seems that the country where i live in has some quite bad reputation outside, well don't worry, i'm not a republic nor democrate person, i'm a Moslem fanatics, so i'm completely enemy to every single persons who don't follow the sama religion as me. i'm not a nationalist, so your people won't be too welcome in my country, don't feel bad about that okay, 'giggle'.
and sorry if i have a bad english, because i just learned english from games

how dare that prophet mohammed marrried and havin sex with little girl ,aisyah binti abubakar just 9 years old ...

 

[Yopparai]

"BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What you're saying is all wrong. Allah doesn't exist. It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God. He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ. Don't be kidding me. You're living a lie believing in Islam. . He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ."
haha, you spoke without thinking.
so you worship the christian god of yours
your god married a woman? where did that woman came from? is she your god creation as well? then she gave birth a man that you called jesus? then why did you say "It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God" while you worship the jesus as well? then you worship two god at the same time, right? not in accordance with what you said before
i wanna know your way of thinking if you don't mind, are you just have faith on them without reason? i'm quite curious
and it's quite funny that you said "He made it all", then you meant he made the Al-Qur'an as well. funny
"Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.
Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful."
it seems that the country where i live in has some quite bad reputation outside, well don't worry, i'm not a republic nor democrate person, i'm a Moslem fanatics, so i'm completely enemy to every single persons who don't follow the sama religion as me. i'm not a nationalist, so your people won't be too welcome in my country, don't feel bad about that okay, 'giggle'.
and sorry if i have a bad english, because i just learned english from games

oic u r from indonesia ( the largest poor muslims country in the world) . so many indonesian muslim terorist too .bali bombs

 

[Hezam]

how dare that prophet mohammed marrried and havin sex with little girl ,aisyah binti abubakar just 9 years old ...

You must be polite when you discuss this type of topics not while you are drunk,If you want to flame on people here then you are not welcome.

And about Bombing,we are here to discuss Islam not terrorism.

 

[Timeous]

"Timeous you have been told how to use the quote function. Use it."
i still don't understand how to use it

"That is not evidence that is an assertion. Humans evolved, life came from abiogenesis. the planets were formed by stellar formation. We know evolution is true, it has been observed. We know stellar formation happens, it has been observed. We can fabricated certain proteins and amino acids that are needed for life in the laboratory. All these are natural and at no point is allah present at any of them. As for the universe no-one knows, but there is no critically robust evidence that it was created by a sky daddy, much less yours."

like i said before, everything that exist came from Allah, He created all of them, even the formation process of the whole stars and planets are His creation. He created them with process. earth, sun, star, planets, and the whole universe exist with process. naturalness is His creation as well
and all of those can be explained in Qur'an

humans evolved? that's just a theory, it might be true if human and apes have some similarities, but there is something that no one in this earth except human have, that is mind.
everything evolved, but none of their brain can evolved to have mind like human have
then, human evolved theory fall

"Scripture is not evidence. If it was we would have to accept all scripture as evidence which includes, hindu, shinto, buddhism, etc. Are you willing to take any other religious writings as evidence? Thought not. The quran and allahs existance are assertions they are not facts. In fact your answer to this is nothing but assertion. You have no evidence."

hindu, shinto, buddhism, etc, all of their follower make their own gods, they made them with their own hands, then they worshipping them, sorry i'm not trying to insult, but how could their gods gave their followers scripture, while their gods are not even live.
except their followers made those scriptures by themselves.

assertion? that's right, and you guys who have prove it.
evidence of the truth of the Quran has been proved by your people, like the composition of the solar system, astrology, and all of which used not reached by human hands.
even evidence that the moon once had split in two, then put back together.
you know about that right? can you explain how could that happened by your theory?

"No true scotsman fallacy. Your arguement is false"
can you show me that my arguement is false? or you're just blabbering without thinking

"what? al-Qaeda even took credit for it, a muslim organisation. The pilots were muslims. You have been sucked into the conspiracy nuts who don't want to admit that this stunt was pulled off by muslim terrorists backed by a islamic terror organisation."

well well well, now you've become mad by your own words, you think i don't know what your people did with the television broadcast, you guys reversing the facts by using news on tv, that's because you're too paranoid of Moslem, that's all you can do to us.

"Mutilation of anyone is barbaric and wrong. It is commited by immoral people forcing their bronze age beliefs onto women. How about if I cut your penis off to reduce your sex drive?
People can overcome their lust without resorting to such cruel methods, or don't you trust women?"

mutilation? so funny, it's been proven true that female circumcision is true, let's see the differences between Arab women with American women, we hardly find a woman who is not a virgin anymore in Arab because they can keep their virginity until they marry
and how about if we see the American women, we hardly find a woman who is still virgin, even at their young age, am i wrong? You can easily find on the internet porn movie starring the Europeans and Americans
I was circumcised, and that make men 'thing' look better and cleaner than before, but not men whole 'thing' to be cut out, just a little part on the front

"Ladies and gentlemen I give you a muslim who beliefs if you leave islam you derserve to die, and you wonder why people doubt islam and its beliefs."

you keep blabbering without thinking, i gave you reason even the example as well, but You keep talking nonsense.

"No true scotman fallacy, again."
haha, it seems you've really stuck

"Oh really, then why is it always refered to as a he in your big book of myths? You still haven't given any evidence that the sky daddy exists. Remember, scripture is not evidence."

remember, you guys who have prove it.
evidence of the truth of the Quran has been proved by your people

Derfel said:
"Ahahaha. He fell for it. I thought he wasn't gonna, but damn he fell for it. Not the brightest guy on earth, eh?"

i don't understand for what you just said

to Yopparai
9 years old? she isn't 9 years old, she was already a teenager and she was already baligh when Muhammad married her, you just talking without thinking

 

[Haruspex]

"Timeous you have been told how to use the quote function. Use it."
i still don't understand how to use it

I think you will find this link useful in your quest for learning the art of quoting other members' messages. LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

So the purpose of female circumcision is to keep girls virgin until married? And is this goal for the benefit of the men or the women?

What kind of mutilation is done to men to ensure that they also remain virgin until married?

 

[Hezam]

female circumcision !!
We never do that !
Even if it's allowed but i never heard someone did it and No one dare to.

 

[Yopparai]

You must be polite when you discuss this type of topics not while you are drunk,If you want to flame on people here then you are not welcome.

And about Bombing,we are here to discuss Islam not terrorism.

islam suicide bomb ( jihad)

female circumcision !!
We never do that !
Even if it's allowed but i never heard someone did it and No one dare to.

u can try google it type " female genital mutilation"

 

[Yukiko chan]

OK, first, I think that an attack on a Muslim person, or a Muslim population doesn't always imply an attack on Islam. Whether you want it or not, you cannot be reduced to a mere follower of a particular religion: you're a human being with dozens of capacities and potentials (physical, intellectual, etc...), you're the possessor of a number of objects of value, you're a member of some family and a citizen in some country, region or city, etc... some of these aspects are unique, others you share with many other people. if any of these aspects is of interest to anyone, they may have full reasons to attack you, which may not be justified to you, but they're reasons nonetheless.

It's always possible to argue that a certain category of people are attacked for the very characteristic(s) that identifies their category, and it doesn't even need to be 100% verified for every individual. If 90% of the "victim" population have thick eyebrows, it's always possible to argue that the attack was purported from aversion to thick-eyebrowed people, though most of the time this would be a very ridiculous reason: there are a dozen other common properties that could justify the attack, and it's not because I can easily (or wishfully) identify "thick eyebrows" as a common characteristic that it would be the justification for which the invader made his attack.

Moreover, sometimes there are more than one justification, especially when there are several factions among the invaders, or several social castes. The rulers aim for more profit, resources and lands, most of the time, and religion, when it's explicitly mentioned, is no more than a mean by which they can control the masses (1)... I'll explain more in my response to the examples you gave.

1-The Mongol's Invasion who killed more than one million Muslims in Baghdad:
Battle of Ain Jalut - Wikipedia

As far as I know, the Mongols were aiming to found the largest empire that could ever exist (and for a period of time they succeeded), and since the lands they wanted to conquer were occupied, they chose to eradicate the populations therein and enslave the rest of them. Their objective, to the best of my knowledge, was merely to take over the lands, and it didn't matter to them whether the original settlers were Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, or whatever.

2-Crusades :
Crusades - Wikipedia

That's an example of (1). The peasants and craftsmen who joined in the crusade were mostly moved by their religious sentiments, but also by hopes to live in a new better land... the kings and princes who mobilized their subjects were mostly aiming for new valuable possessions that the promised land was supposed to offer, and the pope blessed the crusades as a means to free Jerusalem from the "evil Muslims". By the way, the 4th crusade, though originally aimed for Jerusalem, was deviated to the City of Constantinople, which was a Christian city at the time.

3-Colonialism (one million person killed by France army in Algeria only):
Colonialism - Wikipedia

Colonialism may have used religion as part of its strategy, to Christianize the indigenous populations for instance, but its objective was clearly to take over the lands and exploit the resources of the colonized regions.

4-War on Terrorism ( witch is the 9th Crusade ):
War on terror - Wikipedia

Terrorism is the result of extremist interpretations of Islam, but it's a threat to world safety (don't forget that even Muslims are victims to Islamic terrorist attacks). There are geopolitical interests for the US and its allies in the region as well.

5-invasion of Iraq :
2003 invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia

Quite a similar situation, though the geopolitical and economical dimensions are more pronounced here.

6-Jewish occupation in Palestine more than 60 years :
Palestine - Wikipedia
Gaza War - Wikipedia

There are both Christian and Muslim Palestinians. And although the religious dimension is very present, it remains a war over land and resources.

7-Bosnia War ( 200.000 Muslims killed ) :
Bosnia and Herzegovina - Wikipedia

Don't know much about the Bosnia war, but I heard it involved racial (or rather cultural) extermination of Muslims...


But as RolandtheHeadless stated, any cultural group with a long history can claim to be the victim of a multitude of attacks. One can speak of the Islamic attacks over the Christian populations in nowadays Syria, Iraq, and Egypt in the 7th and 8 centuries; of the Christian attacks over the pagan populations in old Europa, and of the pagan attacks over the mixed Jewish and pagan populations in North Africa centuries before that... only examples taken from recent events (like the ones given by Hime) would be relevant to our discussion here, I think... that is, if you're trying to prove that Islam is the victim of abject external onslaughts.

 

[Hezam]

islam suicide bomb ( jihad)

Jihad & suicide bomb is different,Read this if you doubt what i said :
Jihad - Wikipedia

u can try google it type " female genital mutilation"

As i said,It's allowed but we do Not do it and i never heard someone did it,I hope you understand.
If it was not allowed you will say "Why Islam forbids the women to do female circumcision" .
So you are free,Do it if you like.

 

[Hezam]

I want to correct one thing :

Terrorism is the result of extremist interpretations of Islam

This is not right,It's a result of the western Crusade & the western support to Israel witch use Jihad to threat the west.
Dont forget that Alqaeda created by the US.do you need more info ?

 

[Haruspex]

I want to correct one thing :

This is not right,It's a result of the western Crusade & the western support to Israel witch use Jihad to threat the west.
Dont forget that Alqaeda created by the US.do you need more info ?

Terrorism would not have been born but for fundamentalism. The same can not be said about the influence of the west and we can only speculate.

 

[Mycernius]

like i said before, everything that exist came from Allah, He created all of them, even the formation process of the whole stars and planets are His creation. He created them with process. earth, sun, star, planets, and the whole universe exist with process. naturalness is His creation as well
and all of those can be explained in Qur'an

You have no evidence. once again scripture is not evidence. I require robust, testable, critical scientific papers that your magic fairy exists. Until such time you are making baseless assertions.

humans evolved? that's just a theory, it might be true if human and apes have some similarities, but there is something that no one in this earth except human have, that is mind.
everything evolved, but none of their brain can evolved to have mind like human have
then, human evolved theory fall

Evolution is an observed phenomenon. Do you believe that gravity is "only" a theory or how did the people of Hiroshima die because of "only" a theory (Atomic theory). It is testable, it has the evidence (fossils, ERVs, genetics). Apes have a mind. they can do simple maths, have self awareness, show emotions have moral concepts, can learn sign language, can use tools.
You show a lack of understanding of evolution and what a scientific theory is. I am not going to waste my time on discussijng this with you as you don't even have the basics. I suggest you go and learn what evolution is, what a scientific theory is before you even attempt to continue with this.

hindu, shinto, buddhism, etc, all of their follower make their own gods, they made them with their own hands, then they worshipping them, sorry i'm not trying to insult, but how could their gods gave their followers scripture, while their gods are not even live.
except their followers made those scriptures by themselves.

That is bad logic. Anyone of any faith can make exactly the same assertion. Look as if the same statement was made by a hindu

islam, shinto, buddhism, etc, all of their follower make their own gods, they made them with their own hands, then they worshipping them, sorry i'm not trying to insult, but how could their gods gave their followers scripture, while their gods are not even live.
except their followers made those scriptures by themselves

(incidently Buddhism doesn't have a god)
Do you see why your statement is bad logic now?

assertion? that's right, and you guys who have prove it.

Incorrect. the burden of proof is on you. You have made the claim that allah exists and islam is the true religion. no you must provide the evidence for that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Making the claim that a god exists and made the universe is an extraordinary claim

evidence of the truth of the Quran has been proved by your people, like the composition of the solar system, astrology, and all of which used not reached by human hands.

Oh dear the old "the quran is a science book canard". Do you know that most of the quran is from christian and jewish sources? If anything the bible and the talmud would have more science in it as the quran is full of jewish/christian scripture. Along with that it has greek medicine in it as well. The old sperm is made from the kidneys originates (Sura 86:5-7) from a greek called Galen, almost 700 years before muhammad was born. If an all-knowing god had written the book it wouldn't have made such an obvious mistake, unless allah is a: Incompetant therefore not all-knowing which would make it a liar
b: Doesn't exist
i would also like to know have you read any other religions scripture?

even evidence that the moon once had split in two, then put back together.

the moon has never been split in two. I would like a source on this piece of garbage.

"No true scotsman fallacy. Your arguement is false"

can you show me that my arguement is false? or you're just blabbering without thinking

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia
Read and digest. It tells you what one is and why your comments are no true scotsman.

well well well, now you've become mad by your own words, you think i don't know what your people did with the television broadcast, you guys reversing the facts by using news on tv, that's because you're too paranoid of Moslem, that's all you can do to us.

I am not paranoid about muslims or islam. What I am worried about is gullible people who believe that the whole thing was a conspiracy by jews. Until that point no-one was too concerned about islam. Then a bunch of brainwashed, islamic idiots go and pull this dumb stunt and suddenly everything goes up in the air. Some, unable to face the facts that this was done by muslism in the name of allah, try and distort the truth. Go learn instead of towing the party line.

mutilation? so funny, it's been proven true that female circumcision is true, let's see the differences between Arab women with American women, we hardly find a woman who is not a virgin anymore in Arab because they can keep their virginity until they marry
and how about if we see the American women, we hardly find a woman who is still virgin, even at their young age, am i wrong?

Provide the stats and maybe we can discuss. Until such time you are making assertions, again. I also notice that a fellow muslim on this thread has expressed surprise and such a practice. Why is that? Possibly because he also find the idea repugnant.

You can easily find on the internet porn movie starring the Europeans and Americans

Why, have you looked and watched them?

I was circumcised, and that make men 'thing' look better and cleaner than before, but not men whole 'thing' to be cut out, just a little part on the front

The word is penis not "thing". The word can't harm you. What is it with religion and sex?

you keep blabbering without thinking, i gave you reason even the example as well, but You keep talking nonsense.

The reasons are dumb. Seems that you do not believe in letting people make their own mind up. That is a sign of bigots and intolerance. Do you advocate going back to the dark ages?

haha, it seems you've really stuck

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

9 years old? she isn't 9 years old, she was already a teenager and she was already baligh when Muhammad married her, you just talking without thinking

She was married to him at the age of 6 or 7. She started to live with him at age 9.
Here is a few Islamic sources on the matter, so you can't accuse me of using western anti-islamic sites.
Why Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Marry Young Aisha Siddiqa ®?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
and the ever present Wiki article
Muhammad's wives - Wikipedia
You argue for islam yet don't seem to know much about it.

 

[Hezam]

I dont like to lie to my self or to anyone else.
Aisha was 6 when Prophet Muhammad married her and she start living with him at 9 age witch is the teenage for females.

People always use this point to attack Islam ! But the point is you are free to marry whoever woman in any age IF this won't hurt her.Please and Please notice this important rule.

 

[Haruspex]

I dont like to lie to my self or to anyone else.
Aisha was 6 when Prophet Muhammad married her and she start living with him at 9 age witch is the teenage for females.

People always use this point to attack Islam ! But the point is you are free to marry whoever woman in any age IF this won't hurt her.Please and Please notice this important rule.

9, come on. How is it going to be beneficial to a girl?

 

[Hime]

Nice to see how this thread is overwhelmed with so many attacks.... I think the thread title should changed to "Attacks on Islam" heا! now give me a break people.

Aisha was 6 when Prophet Muhammad married her and she start living with him at 9 age witch is the teenage for females.

Adding to the above the following:
* It was very normal at that Age in the Arabian desert that girls get married at such age, it has been narrated that at the same day the prophet father Abdullah married his mother Aminah bint Wahab another marriage case took place and it was Hala "the cousin of Mohammed Mom" who married Abd Al Mutalib and Hala was in a young age as married a man in her father age", and the list goes on and on (I don't have the time to mention all similar marriage cases). Adding to that, if it was so uncommon for men to marry girls in young age the tribe of Quraish (especially the unbelievers who was the prophets' enemies) will condemned that from him, but they didn't because it was something common.
* Aisha May Allah be pleased with her was already engaged to Jubair Ibn Al Mut'im Ibn Udai when the prophet proposed to her. Then some reasons leaded that time to cancel her proposal with Jubair and marry the prophet peace be upon him
* Girls in such areas of the world get matured earlier than the others in other places and the normal age for puberty at that time was even 8 in many cases
* When the first wife of the prophet passed away it was Khawla bint Hakeem who mentioned Aisha to the prophet when she asked him to get married again which means that girls in such age were very known to all people at that time that they are at the age of marriage, otherwise Khawla bint Hakeem wouldn't mention her at the first place because she know very well when the girl is "ready" for getting married
* Aisha was very proud of that marriage, otherwise she will never narrate every single thing happened to her when she was with the prophet. Do you think that a forced woman to marriage will tell people happily how things are happening in her house? Even talking about some details sometimes?

 

[Hime]

Hiding your face in public can make people around you feel uneasy, to say the least, even if it's done by an innocent woman who's only concern is to abide by the teachings of her religion. But there's also a security concern

Like the way those emo, goth guys are walking around with there scary looks??? Don't you see this making people around them feel uneasy???

last year I read a news story about several Pakistani terrorists who tried to escape by wearing burqas.

If there are bad apples, this means that not everyone is bad..........hope you can distinguish between this and that.

But oh wait! I forgot that women in Islam are not allowed to travel (or even go out for a long distance) without being accompanied by a man (husband, son, father, uncle, etc... anyone with whom a sexual relationship would be considered incestuous).

Because I don't expect myself travel from place to another without a guardian to offer the protection. Sorry but I am very precious to my family to be without a protection.

This fact casts a new light on the burqa case: so far, I have deliberately spoken of those women as if they had made their own free choice to wear burqa. But one wonders if there's anything that could be assimilated to freedom of choice for a being that is supposed to be, by some imaginary divine authority, under the jurisdiction of a man from birth to death.

If that is what you got from the Media then I am fine with this..........but Its me who chose to wear the face veil, and if my family said there is no need to it, I will not obey them.

That's a pretty controversial issue, and I'm not sure myself where to stand on it. I can see the visual pollution problem: many people consider minarets too ugly to espouse their environing landscape, and I agree that it's quite disconcerting to see an Islamic minaret in the middle of a Swiss village.

Are they preventing birds to fly freely? or spreading smoke around? or maybe spreading nuclear wastes

Furthermore, minarets are of no use since the prayer calling (Adhan) is not allowed in the first place (that's their original purpose as far as I know). On the other hand, I consider it a primary right for any minority to express itself, without transgressing the laws of their country of residence.

I guess Its not you who decide what is useful or not for Muslims.

I don't have figures, but there are probably more sites criticizing Christianity and Judaism, in my own estimation. Why would Islam be exempt of criticism? You may believe that it represents the epitome of truth and perfection, but there are many who don't and are willing to voice their disapproval. I for one see many imperfections in Islam and many contradictions and scientific errors in the Koran.

Even those other religions are attacked, but not as much as Islam.

"Careful", maybe not; but there's a lot of anti-Islam propaganda. Though Islam itself cannot be considered an innocent victim. I shudder every time I recall the executions of 13 year old girls for adultery (or the like) by the Islamic government in Somalia.

May you should browse more through the channels to get what I meant.

Like Mycernius said, many sheiks want you to believe certain things about reality.
But reality is too complex to be apprehended with beliefs and wishful thinking: only a scientific mind, I think, has a good chance to fathom that complexity, and bring it closer to understanding. I would personally prefer to answer "I don't know", than come up with a wishful thought or a non supported argument.

And as I said, I don't believe on what I believe blindly.

I don't think Muslim converts in Europe or the US need to hide their religion.

Seriously? I think you need to listen to some converts and see how they are suffering and struggling in hiding their faiths from their families before you say anything.

In fact, I'd be more concerned about the situation of apostates in Islamic countries, where the concept of "freedom of belief" is non existent...

A whole another topic, but just for the sake of the discussion, Islam is not a game where you can enter and leave whenever you want. If you are 100% sure that you wanna be a Muslim then thats it. Otherwise there is no compulsion in Religion as it stated in the Quran.

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)

By the way, speaking of belief/unbelief here's a blog (in Arabic) that you might "enjoy". It may sound more or less offensive to you, and I don't agree with some of the blogger's statements and word choices.

I can't be bothered to read it as I am seeing you doing this intentionally to provoke me. Thanks!

You may have the reflex to take the side of Islam as a mere victim in all situations, but I think you need to try to understand the "other side" as well, in order to avoid bias. Some questions needn't be answered by black or white only. There are other shades or colors to be taken into account.

Very nice!! Same thing goes with you. I hope you are applying the same principles on yourself.

Is it really necessary for a woman to wear burqa, or even a "normal" veil?

Sure, Thats my right to cover myself rather than being a "public property" walking around as a pleasure for the eyes of men.

 

[Mycernius]

Sure, Thats my right to cover myself rather than being a "public property" walking around as a pleasure for the eyes of men.

Just this one for a quick reply. Should men cover themselves up then just in case they are a pleasure to the eyes women? Women can feel just as attracted to men as a man to a woman. Maybe all people in islamic countries should cover themselves from head to toe just in case someone might peek a bit of forbidden flesh. How many times have you briefly looked over a mans body thinking "WOW"?
Again, why is there such a taboo on sex? Why do you link your body with lust? I do dancing for a pastime. The woman I dance with is only 14 years older than me, she is married to a man I have never met and has children. I do ballroom and latin with her. In both types you have to get close. Body touching body. Yet I feel no lust or attraction. She is a friend and we are comfortable with each other. She is not the only woman I have danced with, yet I felt no abject lust or wanton thoughts running through my mind when with them. We just dance. Why are you not comfortable with your body that you have to cover it up? Do you really think that every man wants to "jump your bones" given half a chance? I honestly cannot see this preoccupation with womanly figure = sex that Islam, conservative Christianity and orthodox Judaism have.
After all african tribes and the aboringinals in Australia, or the tribes in South America and sourthern asia walk around with next to nothing on, yet they aren't always having sex or thinking of it. Rape is a virtual unkown. They are comfortable with their bodies.

 

[Haruspex]

Like the way those emo, goth guys are walking around with there scary looks??? Don't you see this making people around them feel uneasy???

Ahaha. Emo and goth people are by no means scary. If they scare you, you'd probably be terrified if you walked past me (not that I am anyone to be afraid of, lol). Simply put, immersion in goth or emo subculture is not known to result in a wide range of 'side effects' associated with Islamic fundamentalism, like brainwashing, general dislike of all things progressive and blowing things up. An adherent who is so rigorous in her ways can easily trigger a suspicion of a number of the associated side effects in the average person.

If there are bad apples, this means that not everyone is bad..........hope you can distinguish between this and that.

It is no longer a matter of 'good' and 'bad'. The traditional forms of clothing concealing the whole body compromise security, that is what he was trying to point out. No need for the drama.

Because I don't expect myself travel from place to another without a guardian to offer the protection. Sorry but I am very precious to my family to be without a protection.

Now, I apologise for my rudeness, but who gives a damn about you? The focus is on freedom here. Recognition of the fact that some women want to be perceived as capable adults who are able to think for themselves. Yes, the thought of liberty may be intimidating, but I can assure you, it's an awesome thing. Oh, not to mention privacy.

If that is what you got from the Media then I am fine with this..........but Its me who chose to wear the face veil, and if my family said there is no need to it, I will not obey them.

Great. So, you are not subordinated to your family, but to your religious leaders. That makes it so, so, so much better and acceptable.

Are they preventing birds to fly freely? or spreading smoke around? or maybe spreading nuclear wastes

Planning. As Zoon van Ijs pointed out, people don't want to see some totally out of place building in an area comprising 18th century stone houses.

I guess Its not you who decide what is useful or not for Muslims.

It's not up to Muslims either. It is up to the learned and honourable bearded men opposing the evil that is societal progression.

Even those other religions are attacked, but not as much as Islam.

Yes, because they usually don't end up dying or having to fear for their lives for the rest of their days. I'm sure you understand why this would be likely to invite criticism.

May you should browse more through the channels to get what I meant.

Oh, are you going to come up with some smart justification for executions of young persons now?

And as I said, I don't believe on what I believe blindly.

You can only believe blindly. Information which you hold with justification (justified true belief), is knowledge. (no Gettier now plix) You believe some bollocks blindly.

Seriously? I think you need to listen to some converts and see how they are suffering and struggling in hiding their faiths from their families before you say anything.

Ahaha, you've got to be taking the piss there. A guy two years ago when I was doing my university admission course stood up during introduction and declared that he would be going on a jihad once he is finished with university. Guess what happened! Nothing! He wasn't even taken off the course or anything. He was a convert. Must have been terrible for him to endure the laughter that followed such an outrageous statement, eh?

A whole another topic, but just for the sake of the discussion, Islam is not a game where you can enter and leave whenever you want. If you are 100% sure that you wanna be a Muslim then thats it. Otherwise there is no compulsion in Religion as it stated in the Quran.

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)

Yeah, which makes it evident that Islam doesn't give a **** about human rights and liberties. It makes me sick, makes me want to become a 'serial apostate'.

I can't be bothered to read it as I am seeing you doing this intentionally to provoke me. Thanks!

Then you are ignorant. He is being polite there and showing a great deal of patience there.

Very nice!! Same thing goes with you. I hope you are applying the same principles on yourself.

It is extremely hypocritical of you to be replying in such a fashion to a person taking a secular stance.

Sure, Thats my right to cover myself rather than being a "public property" walking around as a pleasure for the eyes of men.

People copulate and as a result offsprings are created. In order to be able to engage in such activities, or solely for the pleasure, people attempt to make themselves desirable to their targets. Now, excuse my vulgar wording, but who the **** in the right mind would want to bed a black duvet walking around?