Doubts On Islam

1-The Mongol's Invasion who killed more than one million Muslims in Baghdad:
Battle of Ain Jalut - Wikipedia

2-Crusades :
Crusades - Wikipedia

3-Colonialism (one million person killed by France army in Algeria only):
Colonialism - Wikipedia

4-War on Terrorism ( witch is the 9th Crusade ):
War on terror - Wikipedia

5-invasion of Iraq :
2003 invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia

6-Jewish occupation in Palestine more than 60 years :
Palestine - Wikipedia
Gaza War - Wikipedia

7-Bosnia War ( 200.000 Muslims killed ) :
Bosnia and Herzegovina - Wikipedia

8-some attacks like USA attack on Somalia and Russia on Afghanistan & a few days ago 400 Muslims killed by Christians in Nigeria‏...

This is what i remember now.
How is it ?
 
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There are also converts to other religions. Scientologists claim that theirs is the fastest growing religion in the world. Still doesn't stop it from being a bunch of lies and wingnuttery of the heighest order. Mind you in the charts of wingnuttery in religion Scientology and Mormonism rate near the top.
I can also provide you with muslims that have left islam.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
Just because people join a group doesn't mean that it is true. The biggest one for any religion is lack of evidence. Along with that you have inconsistant scripture and bizzare to dangerous ideas, again prevalent in most religions.
If scripture is true then you wouldn't need apologetics. Unfortunately islam, judaism and christianity have them in abundance, each one showing exactly why theirs is the true religion, why the others are wrong and why the mistakes in scripture aren't really mistakes, but being read wrong. You would think that an all knowing magical sky fairy would know this and put it into plain and simple language so that there would be no arguement on the issues, but we find that isn't so. That makes god either incompetant, a liar or, shock horror, doesn't exist. You can probably guess on which side I come down on. One thing it ain't is all knowing, all powerful, onmipotent, merciful (ha!) and forgiving.
What type of psychotic, malevolent, vain, petty tyrant would come up with the idea of a place of punishment for eternity just because people don't wish to believe in it because it gaves us free will to be able to do that? Answer: God


Actually its up to you to think whatever you want to as the true. Thats your own opinion and I am not trying to force you hold any.

Sure! there are converts to other religions, but not as the rate of conversion to Islam. and Yeah there is also some few "really few" who left Islam, most of them were lacking the good understanding of Islam.

One interesting thing I find in all this conversion thingy is that I have never seen a Muslim scholar "scholar in religion" left Islam,....but many Non-Muslims preachers/priests....especially Christians Priests did...examples:
One famous one is the American ex-Christian priest Yusef Estes:
and here are some other ones:



....the interview is in English
 
Thanks, Hezam. I understand your meaning now.

Any people on earth can find, somewhere in their history, brutal attacks against them by some other people. Since you wish to reach pretty far back in history, perhaps we should also discuss the long history of Arab slave-raiding in Europe and Africa.

We probably won't have a very enlightening exchange if I say that I carry a grudge because your ancestors raided coastal villages in Europe and the UK to take my ancestors into slavery.
 
1-The Mongol's Invasion who killed more than one million Muslims in Baghdad:

2-Crusades :

3-Colonialism (one million person killed by France army in Algeria only):

4-War on Terrorism ( witch is the 9th Crusade ):

5-invasion of Iraq :

6-Jewish occupation in Palestine more than 60 years :

7-Bosnia War ( 200.000 Muslims killed ) :

8-some attacks like USA attack on Somalia and Russia on Afghanistan & a few days ago 400 Muslims killed by Christians in Nigeria‏...
This is what i remember now.
How is it ?

1, The Mongol invasions were not attacks on Islam specifically; the Mongols would invade anybody, they were just empire building; the Islamic people, like Christians, Jews, Hindus etc were just there.
2. I agree with you about the crusades.
3. Colonialism was mostly about power and extracting resources from a place; although there were elements of attempting to convert people to Christianity, it was not specifically anti Islam.
4. & 5. Although George Bush is a staunch Christian, the 'war on terror' was about terrorists and extremists who are misusing the Muslim faith as an excuse for their activities.
6. I agree that the Jewish invasion of Palestine and subsequent expansion is wrong, and there are anti Islam sentiments expressed, but it is also a land grab.
7. Bosnia was also a power and land grab by Serbia, mainly, and while the Muslims were the biggest group to suffer, Croats and Serbs also suffered and were displaced. But it can be argued that is was against the Muslim people, especially after the massacre at Srebrenica.
8. More specific information from you on these would be a help, please.
 
Thanks, Hezam. I understand your meaning now.

Any people on earth can find, somewhere in their history, brutal attacks against them by some other people. Since you wish to reach pretty far back in history, perhaps we should also discuss the long history of Arab slave-raiding in Europe and Africa.

We probably won't have a very enlightening exchange if I say that I carry a grudge because your ancestors raided coastal villages in Europe and the UK to take my ancestors into slavery.
I wouldnt post about that but Zoon van Ijs asked me to do.
^^
 
1, The Mongol invasions were not attacks on Islam specifically; the Mongols would invade anybody, they were just empire building; the Islamic people, like Christians, Jews, Hindus etc were just there.
But It still is one of the brutal attacks on Islam,Jews & Christians were saved by Muslims when Muslims defeated the Mongol.

3. Colonialism was mostly about power and extracting resources from a place; although there were elements of attempting to convert people to Christianity, it was not specifically anti Islam.
I dont think so since it's for the same goal like the Crusades.

4. & 5. Although George Bush is a staunch Christian, the 'war on terror' was about terrorists and extremists who are misusing the Muslim faith as an excuse for their activities.
Didnt you hear what he said ? "It will be a Crusade" !

6. I agree that the Jewish invasion of Palestine and subsequent expansion is wrong, and there are anti Islam sentiments expressed, but it is also a land grab.
Do you know how many Palestinians & Arab killed by Israel ?

7. Bosnia was also a power and land grab by Serbia, mainly, and while the Muslims were the biggest group to suffer, Croats and Serbs also suffered and were displaced. But it can be argued that is was against the Muslim people, especially after the massacre at Srebrenica.
Come on ! Then Please watch this movie ( The Hunting Party ).

8. More specific information from you on these would be a help, please.
I am searching...
 
Actually its up to you to think whatever you want to as the true. Thats your own opinion and I am not trying to force you hold any.
You might not be, but their are many fanatics that want non-islamic countries to be islamic. The UK to be a caliphate as said by Anjem Choudary the leader of Islam4uk. The same organisation that had banners such as "Shariah is the solution, freedom go to hell" when Geert Wilders wanted to visit the UK.

Sure! there are converts to other religions, but not as the rate of conversion to Islam. and Yeah there is also some few "really few" who left Islam, most of them were lacking the good understanding of Islam.
I say BS on this. There are more than you, or rather, islamic leaders, would like to know about. I'm on RDnet and it is amazing the amount of ex-muslims who join, but will not come out of the closet because of the country they live in or the threat of violence that they know will be leveled at them. I also call BS on the "lack of understanding of islam. They were raised muslims in muslim countries. They lack the same amount of understanding of islam as you do. The difference is that they went further and investigated the religion and didn't stick to the indoctrination of prayers and imans. The are no more ignorant of islam than you. Don't be so naive.

One interesting thing I find in all this conversion thingy is that I have never seen a Muslim scholar "scholar in religion" left Islam,....
You didn't look very hard:
Nozad-Renowned Iranian Muslim Scholar - converted to christianity in 1905
Dr Mustafa (Now Mark Gabriel) Former Muslim Imam - covert to christianity
El-Faqi, an ex-Imam and lawyer - convert to christianity
Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah, Afganistan
Sam Solomon - a former Muslim scholar
Also:
Hamza - former Islamic scholar
Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher, Fundamentalist. Now Christian Preacher
Daniel Shayestah- Former koranic teacher, scholar
Ahmed Abdullahi - former muslim cleric
Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim Scholar
Zak Gariba - former Muslim Imam
Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam

Any more for any more.
 
if they had an apostate, then why.?
are they gonna make Islam collapsing? no
they won't affect the true Moslem
it's just because they lacked of Iman
 
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The above post has been moved from ba'hais in japan thread, as Timeous seems to have a comprehension problem when told not to go offtopic.

You started it, but I got the blame
funny
not really. you were yold to keep within the subject and warned, yet you contined. Don't try and shift the blame.

you said this thread just for baha'i but you're an atheist
even funnier
No the thread was about Ba[hais in Japan, not for Ba'hais. your lack of comprehension is the problem.

you showed me an heretic site but you got humiliated by your own cause
the funniest
I showed you a site where the qu'ran has been examined and shown where it contradicts itself, the violence in it, its absurdities, its injustitices. Your reaction is not to read it, but to stay within your confined brainwashed self. I would like to know how your lack of reading shows I am humiliated.
For those interested the site is the Skeptics Annotated Quran

i'm not offtopic, i interfered for what Nichiren said while he praised baha'i but he made fun about Islam rules
then you came to interfere, then you asked me to leave, and your reason doesn't make any sense
No I told you to keep to topic, as did Hezam, something which you chose to ignore.

you said atheist is worse than jew, that means you know about jew pretty well, people who know about jews are none other than the jews themselves.
What type of incomprehensible drivel is this? I am an athiest. I lack a belief in god, any god. How in the name of bob that makes me a jew or jew like I would dearly like to know.
I should point out that religious hatred will not be tolerated on this forum.

in Islam, jews are the worst
And that ladies and gentlemen is why islam gets such bad press throughout the world. Intolerance and bigotry and a lack of understanding of the qu'ran. I'm pretty sure that it mentions that people who follow the book (Muslims, Christians and Jews) are one in the same and follow the same god, but in different forms.
 
re: mycernius

"How about the mistreatment of women for starters. Death for apostasy, the idea of a reward for suicide bombers. The idea that there is a magic sky daddy with no evidence(mind you that goes for religion in general)

Tell the turth, is this a raod you really want to go down?" [from what mycernius said]
(i don't know how to use 'quote', tell me how)
so you're trying to say that if those Moslem are sinning, then the Islam is the one who got the blame. no it's not, it has nothing to do with Islam, Islam is a rule, a rule that created by Allah
if a Moslem sinning, the one who gonna be punished is that Moslem himself. it won't damage the Islam itself.

'mistreatment of women', i don't really understand what kind of mistreatment that they got
'death of apostasy', for example, if you got betrayed by one of your men, he sold the information or secret from your organization, then if it caused a big chaos to your organization. then what kind of punishment that worth to that person for his action?
[traitor deserves to die]
'suicide bomber', from what i learned, that action is forbidden in Islam, the reward of those who commit suicide is hell, and they abide therein.
Jihad isn't like that, all Syuhada at the Muhammad era died by their opponent's sword, not by the sword of their own, there isn't any proof that show that suicide bomber is true.
'The idea that there is a magic sky daddy with no evidence', what is sky daddy that you mean? do you mean that sky diveded into 7 from what Al-Qur'an said?
tell it clearly
 
Let's keep talking objectively without offending each other.
Can i post some Prophecies witch happend and still coming true ?
 
Timeous said:
(i don't know how to use 'quote', tell me how)

To use the quote function you can click on the quote button at the the bottom of each post or use the quote function on the toolbar when you answer. Alternatively you type
followed by the text you are refering and then by [/ QUOTE] to end it (miss out the space I have put betweent / and Q

so you're trying to say that if those Moslem are sinning, then the Islam is the one who got the blame. no it's not, it has nothing to do with Islam, Islam is a rule, a rule that created by Allah
Please provide robust evidence that aforementioned sky daddy exists. Until then anything that is supposed to have come from allah is an assertion not a fact.

if a Moslem sinning, the one who gonna be punished is that Moslem himself. it won't damage the Islam itself.
So if we see planes flying into buildings that isn't damaging islam? Those bunch of brainwashed mor0ns did more damage to islam than anyone has managed in the past 1400 years.

'mistreatment of women', i don't really understand what kind of mistreatment that they got
Let's see. Honour killings, female circumcision, not dressing according to faith (prevelant in Saudi arabia), death sentance for being raped. Have a look at this article:
Women are being abused, even mutilated IN THE NAME OF ISLAM

'death of apostasy', for example, if you got betrayed by one of your men, he sold the information or secret from your organization, then if it caused a big chaos to your organization. then what kind of punishment that worth to that person for his action?
[traitor deserves to die]
They are not selling information of your organisation. They have just left the faith because they have either found another faith that they think is better or they have broken the cycle of indoctrination and found out that allah doesn't exist. But according to your view they deserve to die. Another example of intolerance and violence in islam. You are not setting a good example here.

'suicide bomber', from what i learned, that action is forbidden in Islam, the reward of those who commit suicide is hell, and they abide therein.
Oh really, then what about all these suicide bombers who have been told by their imans if they do this they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins by killing the infidel? I do know that Shais do not subscribe to suicide bombing and it is more common in Sunni, as they do subscribe to the 72 virgins and all that jazz. Suicide bombers are still muslims, don't play the No True Scotsman Fallacy here.

Jihad isn't like that, all Syuhada at the Muhammad era died by their opponent's sword, not by the sword of their own, there isn't any proof that show that suicide bomber is true.
Yet muslims are doing it every day in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen because there 'learned' imans are telling them so because it is in the quran according to their interpretations.

'The idea that there is a magic sky daddy with no evidence', what is sky daddy that you mean? do you mean that sky diveded into 7 from what Al-Qur'an said?
tell it clearly
The magic sky daddy I mean is allah, god, call a god what you will. Also refered to as a sky fairy, pixie. You'll find I will also refer to the quran or the bible as a big book of magic and myths.
 
So if we see planes flying into buildings that isn't damaging islam? Those bunch of brainwashed mor0ns did more damage to islam than anyone has managed in the past 1400 years.
But Dont you think that the first reason is the US and UK whom created and supported Israel ?
Alqaeda is a result of what they did and of course there will be people who make a wrong Iman,right ?
 
"But Dont you think that the first reason is the US and UK whom created and supported Israel ?
Alqaeda is a result of what they did and of course there will be people who make a wrong Iman,right ?"

Oh, boy! No, it's really Hitler's fault, because there would have been no migration of European Jews to Israel without him.

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq are the direct result of those planes flying into buildings. Want to send more planes? Fine -- what country would you next like to see invaded?
 
Hezam, you are prone to injecting politics or collateral issues into a topic, then objecting and calling for return to the original topic when you get any replies.
 
You might not be, but their are many fanatics that want non-islamic countries to be islamic. The UK to be a caliphate as said by Anjem Choudary the leader of Islam4uk. The same organisation that had banners such as "Shariah is the solution, freedom go to hell" when Geert Wilders wanted to visit the UK.
I say BS on this. There are more than you, or rather, islamic leaders, would like to know about. I'm on RDnet and it is amazing the amount of ex-muslims who join, but will not come out of the closet because of the country they live in or the threat of violence that they know will be leveled at them. I also call BS on the "lack of understanding of islam. They were raised muslims in muslim countries. They lack the same amount of understanding of islam as you do. The difference is that they went further and investigated the religion and didn't stick to the indoctrination of prayers and imans. The are no more ignorant of islam than you. Don't be so naive.
You didn't look very hard:
Nozad-Renowned Iranian Muslim Scholar - converted to christianity in 1905
Dr Mustafa (Now Mark Gabriel) Former Muslim Imam - covert to christianity
El-Faqi, an ex-Imam and lawyer - convert to christianity
Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah, Afganistan
Sam Solomon - a former Muslim scholar
Also:
Hamza - former Islamic scholar
Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher, Fundamentalist. Now Christian Preacher
Daniel Shayestah- Former koranic teacher, scholar
Ahmed Abdullahi - former muslim cleric
Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim Scholar
Zak Gariba - former Muslim Imam
Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam
Any more for any more.

Now this is something! I need to search about all those ex-muslims "preacher" as you called them then getting back to you.....but to be honest, looking at the countries some of them are from is giving me the answer already.....but anyways no harm from more search

"How about the mistreatment of women for starters.

Oh now please give me a break!
This seems to be the favorite topic people use when it comes to Islam. Is that all because you see "us" covered? do you think that this is a mistreatment?? C'mon people.

ops sorry...okay better to not go off topic for now
 
re: mycernius

"Please provide robust evidence that aforementioned sky daddy exists. Until then anything that is supposed to have come from allah is an assertion not a fact."

your existence is the proof, where do you think all of existence like human, animal, trees, this earth, sun, and the whole universe existence came from?
do you think all of it came from nowhere else?
or you're gonna say that's just natural?
then where did naturality came from?
can you explain that?
i can
where do you think that i could get that explanation?

i can get all of those explanation from Al-Qur'an
Allah give us guidance, that's originally by Qur'an and His Rosul
those are assertions along with the facts
if you're gonna ask what's the proof of Allah existence, that even we can't see Him

the answer is you're just a human, you're His creation, He created you imperfect, there's a limit inside human. He'll only show Himself to those who pass from all the tests that He give to them.
for example, your leader is a queen, right?
do you think you can freely meet her at any time you want?
of course you can't, if she doesn't allow you, then you can't
what if she gave you some requirements that makes you able to meet her at some condition
you need to complete those requirements, right
then you can meet her after that, it's the same like that
Allah is God, He's the only one who have right to do anything He want. not His creation

"So if we see planes flying into buildings that isn't damaging islam? Those bunch of brainwashed morons did more damage to islam than anyone has managed in the past 1400 years."
your answer shows you that you lack of knowledge, so don't speak something that you don't understand
'Islam is the rule', Moslem are those who follow Islam rule, if a Moslem damaging, he'll only damaging himself and the thing that he damaged, if he did that, he doesn't deserves to be called a Moslem, because Islam never teach anything like that.

and from what i know,that plane incident, not Moslem who did that
that's a conspiracy made by what i called you before, 'jews'

"Let's see. Honour killings, female circumcision, not dressing according to faith (prevelant in Saudi arabia), death sentance for being raped."
what honour killing?
female circumcision, you really don't understand at all, have see the reason for that before denied it? almost not different like the men, to reduce their lust of 5ex

"They are not selling information of your organisation. They have just left the faith because they have either found another faith that they think is better or they have broken the cycle of indoctrination and found out that allah doesn't exist. But according to your view they deserve to die. Another example of intolerance and violence in islam. You are not setting a good example here."
this organisation from what i said before is just an example
they're traitor, i gave you example before didn't i?
they deserve that

"Oh really, then what about all these suicide bombers who have been told by their imans if they do this they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins by killing the infidel? I do know that Shais do not subscribe to suicide bombing and it is more common in Sunni, as they do subscribe to the 72 virgins and all that jazz. Suicide bombers are still muslims, don't play the No True Scotsman Fallacy here."
i've never seen in Qur'an or Hadith that showing about correcting those action
it's true that if i kill an infidel, i'll be rewarded something
but it has to be in some certain condition, for example, if i kill an American who joinned the war against us, that will be allowed in Islam
but if i kill a person that doesn't start any conflict with us, although he is an infidel, i won't be much different with that infidel himself
and if i kill an infidel who start conflict against us, it will be right to kill them, even that's an obligation for us
but if i did that when it caused suffer to the others who don't get involved to our war, i'll be the same as that infidel himself
i know you have a purpose by saying "I do know that Shais do not subscribe to suicide bombing and it is more common in Sunni"

"as they do subscribe to the 72 virgins and all that jazz."
i don't understand what you're trying to say

"Suicide bombers are still muslims, don't play the No True Scotsman Fallacy here."
Moslem divided into two, Mu'min and hypocrite, hypocrite aren't different with infidel
but it doesn't mean that they who did that are the hypocrites, it might be that they don't quite know about Jihad

"Yet muslims are doing it every day in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen because there 'learned' imans are telling them so because it is in the quran according to their interpretations."
if they have a different interpretations with us, that'll be fine
we do not consider their actions correct, but it won't make us hostile
if they're Moslem, then they're our brother

"The magic sky daddy I mean is allah, god, call a god what you will. Also refered to as a sky fairy, pixie. You'll find I will also refer to the quran or the bible as a big book of magic and myths."
Allah is not man nor woman, genders are His creation that specially created for human and jinn, the answer for this question is the same as the first paragraph.
 
"Shariah is the solution, freedom go to hell"
btw, some non-Muslims are calling for that recently. Believe it or not....I was shocked to read that from them too!

They were raised muslims in muslim countries.
Being raised in Muslim countries had never be a reason for being a good Muslim.

They lack the same amount of understanding of islam as you do.
Don't Judge me please.

The difference is that they went further and investigated the religion and didn't stick to the indoctrination of prayers and imans.
I am not an idiot to believe on what I believe blindly!

The are no more ignorant of islam than you. Don't be so naive.
Sorry but no need to insult here, I am assuming that we are discussing things here with mutual respect. Correct me if the purpose of this thread is something else.

You didn't look very hard:
Nozad-Renowned Iranian Muslim Scholar - converted to christianity in 1905
Dr Mustafa (Now Mark Gabriel) Former Muslim Imam - covert to christianity
El-Faqi, an ex-Imam and lawyer - convert to christianity
Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah, Afganistan
Sam Solomon - a former Muslim scholar
Also:
Hamza - former Islamic scholar
Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher, Fundamentalist. Now Christian Preacher
Daniel Shayestah- Former koranic teacher, scholar
Ahmed Abdullahi - former muslim cleric
Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim Scholar
Zak Gariba - former Muslim Imam
Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam
Any more for any more.


I needed to watch or listen to interviews of them so I can know what they are really, those are some of what I watched:

Mark Gabriel….he studied history of Islam and is an Imam……You might not know this but Imam is different than a scholar. The Imam is just the leader of the prayer congregation in the mosque and doesn't have to be an expert in Islam Shariah.
I watched an interview with him (I only watched the beginning and got it all), he said that Memorizing Quran is a culture??? Man!! What do you expect from someone considered that as a culture and think that he should hurt a Christian Priest? Sorry but that is simply stupidity from him!!

Sam Solomon……Listening to his interview was a funny experiment to me. He is not able to distinguish between the meaning of the noun and the verb of the Arabic word "Islam" and giving huge misunderstanding to people………lol I cant recognize him even as a student of knowledge. He is quoting verses chops them from here and there and interprets them as he wants without looking at them in the place they were mentioned to know what is before or after them.
Its very obvious that he himself was not having the true knowledge of Islam….hence I don't call him a scholar. From where on earth he brought that you can lie in all cases to non-Muslims??? Let him go and read the biography of the prophet and see how he was with non-Muslims.

A Scholar is not:
- Considering Islam as a culture.
- Saying that Muslims are not worshipping the same God Christians and Jews!!
- Saying that Allah is telling lies?? Give me a break!!…….that so called scholar need a kid to teach him Islam
And many other things that I am not bothered to listen to the rest of that ridiculous interview.

Ergun Caner………….lol who is that Muslim that said that he can't pray anytime any moment to Allah? Who is that Muslim that said that loving Allah needs conditions?? He cant even say the first sentence of any chapter in the Quran correctly which is "bismillah Arrahman Arraheem"….this is something that no Muslims on the face of the earth will fail to do. I doubt he is a Muslim indeed.
He got the meaning of Allah all wrong. He is denying one of the most orders that Allah order us in the Quran which is "asking and thinking"….he thought that he has to believe blindly on something!! By the way, Caner is a son of a Muslim leader not a scholar as his site said.

See, I am not being biased because those left Islam "actually neither Islam nor Muslims need them, they need it in turn", but seriously, what they were talking about has nothing to do with Islam. Yet people called them scholars?? When they are just Imam, or students of Islamic studies? I was interested on know their Islamic backgrounds when you passed me their names "which I really thank you for" because I knew that from listening to their talks I will know whether they were scholars or not.

I am sure such an anti-Islam site as faithfreedom will make them "great scholars" even if they had the lowest amount of Islamic knowledge....I can't expect less from that site.
 
"Please provide robust evidence that aforementioned sky daddy exists. Until then anything that is supposed to have come from allah is an assertion not a fact."

your existence is the proof, where do you think all of existence like human, animal, trees, this earth, sun, and the whole universe existence came from?
do you think all of it came from nowhere else?
or you're gonna say that's just natural?
then where did naturality came from?
can you explain that?
i can
where do you think that i could get that explanation?

i can get all of those explanation from Al-Qur'an
Allah give us guidance, that's originally by Qur'an and His Rosul
those are assertions along with the facts
if you're gonna ask what's the proof of Allah existence, that even we can't see Him

the answer is you're just a human, you're His creation, He created you imperfect, there's a limit inside human. He'll only show Himself to those who pass from all the tests that He give to them.
for example, your leader is a queen, right?
do you think you can freely meet her at any time you want?
of course you can't, if she doesn't allow you, then you can't
what if she gave you some requirements that makes you able to meet her at some condition
you need to complete those requirements, right
then you can meet her after that, it's the same like that
Allah is God, He's the only one who have right to do anything He want. not His creation

"So if we see planes flying into buildings that isn't damaging islam? Those bunch of brainwashed morons did more damage to islam than anyone has managed in the past 1400 years."
your answer shows you that you lack of knowledge, so don't speak something that you don't understand
'Islam is the rule', Moslem are those who follow Islam rule, if a Moslem damaging, he'll only damaging himself and the thing that he damaged, if he did that, he doesn't deserves to be called a Moslem, because Islam never teach anything like that.

and from what i know,that plane incident, not Moslem who did that
that's a conspiracy made by what i called you before, 'jews'

"Let's see. Honour killings, female circumcision, not dressing according to faith (prevelant in Saudi arabia), death sentance for being raped."
what honour killing?
female circumcision, you really don't understand at all, have see the reason for that before denied it? almost not different like the men, to reduce their lust of 5ex

"They are not selling information of your organisation. They have just left the faith because they have either found another faith that they think is better or they have broken the cycle of indoctrination and found out that allah doesn't exist. But according to your view they deserve to die. Another example of intolerance and violence in islam. You are not setting a good example here."
this organisation from what i said before is just an example
they're traitor, i gave you example before didn't i?
they deserve that

"Oh really, then what about all these suicide bombers who have been told by their imans if they do this they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins by killing the infidel? I do know that Shais do not subscribe to suicide bombing and it is more common in Sunni, as they do subscribe to the 72 virgins and all that jazz. Suicide bombers are still muslims, don't play the No True Scotsman Fallacy here."
i've never seen in Qur'an or Hadith that showing about correcting those action
it's true that if i kill an infidel, i'll be rewarded something
but it has to be in some certain condition, for example, if i kill an American who joinned the war against us, that will be allowed in Islam
but if i kill a person that doesn't start any conflict with us, although he is an infidel, i won't be much different with that infidel himself
and if i kill an infidel who start conflict against us, it will be right to kill them, even that's an obligation for us
but if i did that when it caused suffer to the others who don't get involved to our war, i'll be the same as that infidel himself
i know you have a purpose by saying "I do know that Shais do not subscribe to suicide bombing and it is more common in Sunni"

"as they do subscribe to the 72 virgins and all that jazz."
i don't understand what you're trying to say

"Suicide bombers are still muslims, don't play the No True Scotsman Fallacy here."
Moslem divided into two, Mu'min and hypocrite, hypocrite aren't different with infidel
but it doesn't mean that they who did that are the hypocrites, it might be that they don't quite know about Jihad

"Yet muslims are doing it every day in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen because there 'learned' imans are telling them so because it is in the quran according to their interpretations."
if they have a different interpretations with us, that'll be fine
we do not consider their actions correct, but it won't make us hostile
if they're Moslem, then they're our brother

"The magic sky daddy I mean is allah, god, call a god what you will. Also refered to as a sky fairy, pixie. You'll find I will also refer to the quran or the bible as a big book of magic and myths."
Allah is not man nor woman, genders are His creation that specially created for human and jinn, the answer for this question is the same as the first paragraph.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What you're saying is all wrong. Allah doesn't exist. It is God, the one and only CHRISTIAN God. He made it all. And if you read the New Testament, you will find that God's True Prophet is his son Jesus Christ. Don't be kidding me. You're living a lie believing in Islam.
 
Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.

Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful.
 
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Well that has dragged a 'red herring' across this thread.

Btw people, although this forum is called Japan Reference, it is in the English language. It is very difficult to conduct a conversation in a language you do not fully understand; you can end up looking very silly and people will not understand your message.
I advise you to be careful.

Those are wise Christian words. Amen.
 
Derfel started playing his game :D
Everyone,dont make him fool you.
 
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