Do you speak Japanese?

[curwenx]

Strange levels in poll...

There's something wrong with the levels in the poll... I'm somewhere between JLPT level 3 and 2, but I wouldn't consider myself "High intermediate-lower advanced" maybe lower intermediate at best. If I ever do pass level 2, I may deem myself worthy of being plain intermediate, or high intermediate, definately not "advanced."

And calling JLPT level 4 "High beginner/lower intermediate (JLPT4)" is just stupid. Level 4 is as basic as you get...

 

[Damicci]

I have seen some of the questions on a level 4 exam and they don't seem that basic. I wouldn't know for sure but I figure basic would no kanji kana and sentences like "sono kuruma ha ooki desu."

 

[yukon]

I would agree with curwenx about the poll. I am between level 3 and 2 and mid intermediate is at the best I would call myself. Level 2 is the bare min. Even level 1 proficiency is looked down upon by the japanese.

 

[xerxes99]

I'm trying to learn. Taking classes, and soon I'll start with a Japanese totur. I'm pretty sick of getting by on the 4 things I know and mime.

 

[トラちゃん1]

I have learnt something here today. Thanks.
I think I would be an intermediate.

 

[Tsukimiya]

I know many words.. but not so much sentences.. .-.
~progressed? lol

[...]
i'm teaching myself! cool huh?!

me tuh xD

 

[koko]

Konnichiwa minasan,..
im new here, i just finished my 2nd level in NihonGo but too expensive to continue here. Now im in limbo & from what i see i can learn a lot from here. Yoroshiku onegashimaaaasu..

 

[koko]

I just finished my level 2, & slowly i can see the kanji started to increase in the text book provided. I stop from the class for a while since they increased the prize & too expensive for me. My sensei agreed to exchange language-tuition. I teach her Malay & she teach me Japanese & now we're stop for a while because she's busy. Now i'm looking forward to learn kanji more. Anybody know if there's a website where i can learn the basic kanji from level 1?

Thanks.

 

[Nicky]

I guess I'm a "High beginner/lower intermediate (JLPT4)".

 

[Hachiro]

Just out of curiosity here, how many people, foreigners in particular, can speak the language close to native level but can not read or write any kana or kanji?

 

[Hachiro]

Question is this a valid subject for a "new" thread similar to this but only related to my last post?

"Can you speak Japanese but not read or write any kana or kanji?"

Any comments?

 

[Hachiro]

Well time to give up, I guess not too many people here can say that they ccan speak the language but not read or write it.............life can get pretty lonely talking to oneself.

 

[KrazyKat]

Why would you think people would be able to speak Japanese but not be able to read or write? What kind of insane course would teach Japanese like that? I'm sure you can find people who can speak better than they can read though, but not even know the kana? I'd be shocked if they existed.

 

[Hachiro]

Why would you think people would be able to speak Japanese but not be able to read or write? What kind of insane course would teach Japanese like that? I'm sure you can find people who can speak better than they can read though, but not even know the kana?

Please don't assume that it was a course of instruction, but let's say that someone comes here, knows "zero" Japanese.

Is in a sink or swim situation that doesn't allow time for any actuall studying of written Japanese, but literally picks up the spoken language by immersion, living it daily. At first using a romaji dictionary and practicing kana once in a while, but never having a use for it, pre-text mail days, but actually learning to speak Japanese by living it.

I'd be shocked if they existed.

They exist and their Japanese is very, very good.

 

[epigene]

KrazyKat,

I can attest to what Hachiro-san is saying.

I don't know how old Hachiro-san is, but, in the 1950's through 1970's when 99% (figuratively speaking) of foreigners in Japan were Americans in the US military or linked to the US government, there was no such thing as systematically structured Japanese language study for foreigners (may have existed probably in elite universities mostly in the US such as Harvard, Yale, etc.). Foreigners who settled in Japan picked up the language through immersion and rarely were able to pick up reading and writing, because these areas require discipline. The Japanese never thought foreigners would be interested in their language, and the foreigners were only satisfied with "survival level" fluency. It was only the "very rare" foreigners who gained competence in both oral and written communication. (My personal opinion is that such people are naturally gifted in languages and would have picked up any language if they had been in other countries.)

Perception of Japanese culture and language was very different in those days, and I never thought there would be so much interest in Japan as I see today. (That's probably why I come to this forum. )

 

[Hachiro]

KrazyKat,
I can attest to what Hachiro-san is saying.
I don't know how old Hachiro-san is, but, in the 1950's through 1970's when 99% (figuratively speaking) of foreigners in Japan were Americans in the US military or linked to the US government, there was no such thing as systematically structured Japanese language study for foreigners (may have existed probably in elite universities mostly in the US such as Harvard, Yale, etc.). Foreigners who settled in Japan picked up the language through immersion and rarely were able to pick up reading and writing, because these areas require discipline. The Japanese never thought foreigners would be interested in their language, and the foreigners were only satisfied with "survival level" fluency. It was only the "very rare" foreigners who gained competence in both oral and written communication. (My personal opinion is that such people are naturally gifted in languages and would have picked up any language if they had been in other countries.)
Perception of Japanese culture and language was very different in those days, and I never thought there would be so much interest in Japan as I see today. (That's probably why I come to this forum. )

I'm 43 years old and have been living here in Japan for over 20 years now. I am one of those "exceptions" to the rule. I speak Japanese, and according to my wife, as I am not objective about myself, I asked her on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being illiterate and 10 being native what was my level?

She told me about a 9. I was very curious how many others out "here" were like me.

 

[KrazyKat]

I guess I believe you but I am still shocked. Learning Japanese without learning to read seems like going out of your way to make it harder to me, even if it was through immersion. ie use of Kanji makes it much easier to learn new words and just being able to read imporves vocabulary and grammar?

Additionally, with a high level of spoken Japanese surely it would not take much effort to learn Kanji? Wouldn't being illiterate have lots of drawbacks?
I guess I'm still curious as to why people would chose to stay illiterate.

 

[Hachiro]

I guess I believe you but I am still shocked. Learning Japanese without learning to read seems like going out of your way to make it harder to me, even if it was through immersion. ie use of Kanji makes it much easier to learn new words and just being able to read imporves vocabulary and grammar?
Additionally, with a high level of spoken Japanese surely it would not take much effort to learn Kanji? Wouldn't being illiterate have lots of drawbacks?
I guess I'm still curious as to why people would chose to stay illiterate.

First off why would you consider a person who can speak a second language illiterate. I think I understand your point, but when I first read the post I was a bit put-off, because I am very far from being illiterate.

Japanese is my second language. I can read hiragana, and katakana with no problem. I practiced learning them many years ago, but never had an opportunity or need to learn how to use them in written context.

I also can read numerous kanji, as I see them daily, street signs, signboards, things like that, and have retained their meaning but never had a need to write them.

Not reading does not have as many drawbacks as you might think. I can always get a Japanese person to read something for me.

I know of numerous Japanese that can not speak any English beyond the usual "Goodo Morningu" but can read and write English very well. They try to communicate by writing messages to people who can not speak Japanese but can read, write and understand English.

Which would be a bigger handicap or drawback to you?

 

[KrazyKat]

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to insult anyone or belittle their Japanese ability. I know illiterate isn't the perfect word since these people can clearly read and write in their native language but I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe not being able to read or write (but speak) the language of the country someone is living in. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else by using it.

While I haven't been to Japan yet I would probably agree with you that needing to write large numbers of Kanji by hand is probably not an important skill, I very rarely write things for other poeple to read by hand even in English.

Being able to write but not speak seems just as strange to me. Once you know the vocabulary and grammatical concept it shouldn't be that difficult to transfer it from speaking and writing or vice versa? Of course speaking is obviously a more important skill for everyday life than writing I'm not trying to deny that.

 

[Glenn]

1) "Illiterate" means "unable to read or write."

2) There are many nisei in the US, at least, who learn the language from their parents but their primary language is English, and that's the one the used to learn school subjects with, and it's also the one they learned to read and write. Their spoken ability is native-like, but they're still illiterate. If they were to learn to read and write Japanese it would have to be by taking a Japanese class at school, because often the parents don't see it as a major part of their education. By the way, there are specially designed classes for people in that situation that focus heavily on reading and writing. It's similar to the ear training classes for people with perfect pitch.

 

[Hachiro]

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to insult anyone or belittle their Japanese ability. I know illiterate isn't the perfect word since these people can clearly read and write in their native language but I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe not being able to read or write (but speak) the language of the country someone is living in. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else by using it.
While I haven't been to Japan yet I would probably agree with you that needing to write large numbers of Kanji by hand is probably not an important skill, I very rarely write things for other poeple to read by hand even in English.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to come across as if I was insulted. I know it may sound strange but circumstances put me in a position that I needed spoken abilites more than written, particularly at that time. I had/have a family to support and work needed communicative skills over reading or writing ones. If I had the time I would love to go to school, but...I'm being lazy here....

Being able to write but not speak seems just as strange to me. Once you know the vocabulary and grammatical concept it shouldn't be that difficult to transfer it from speaking and writing or vice versa? Of course speaking is obviously a more important skill for everyday life than writing I'm not trying to deny that

Actually what you described there is how the Japanese are with their English skills. Many can read and write English, in some cases better than a "native", but can hardly hold a conversation beyond "Hi my name is Hachiro" "How are you?" I'm fine thank you, Mr.Hachiro and you?" It is extremely difficult for the Japanese to transfer their reading and written abilities to spoken.

By the way, there are specially designed classes for people in that situation that focus heavily on reading and writing. It's similar to the ear training classes for people with perfect pitch.

Where....anywhere in Japan?

 

[Glenn]

That I don't know about. I know there are at colleges and universities in the US for sure, because I've seen them. I wish I could help you out, but I know next to nothing about Japanese universities. Sorry.

 

[Hachiro]

That I don't know about. I know there are at colleges and universities in the US for sure, because I've seen them. I wish I could help you out, but I know next to nothing about Japanese universities. Sorry.

Thanks anyway.

 

[SortOf]

I can engage in very simple and low level conversation, write limited romanji, and recently just started learning kana. This is going alot slower than I had hoped, or expected...

My original plan, was to read a few books, listen to a few audio sets, do a hand full of work books, and just poof magically know the language. However after I actually started, reality sunk in and im progressing relatively slowly.

Im aiming for JLPT 4 in a year and a half or so...

 

[lost_cause]

All I know in japanese is some phrases and some single words...
but I deffinatley wanna learn!
someone available to teach me some? lol