Do nice guys finish last?

[maushan3]

I was thinking about these host guys in Japan. That they are really efiminate and they were being "romantic" doing things like getting the girls flowers, being delicate and I thought about the difference between what girls generally like on the West and what girls like in Japan, so I decided to make a thread about this.

Well, some months ago, I read about a guy called David DeAngelo who is a pretty good pick-up man. I began reading his newsletters. I couldn't believe this, at first I was like "Oh, he's a jerk to girls" and so on... So, I tried his method and it worked like charm. Not that I was bad with girls, just that I would have never tried this formula with a girl and I decided to tell the difference between "being nice" (always compliment her, etc.) and the other way (tease her, bust on the girl, etc.)

This guy teaches what he likes to call "Cocky and Funny". The principle here is to be kind of arrogant to girl, but at the same time charming and funny. He says this creates the spark in the law of attraction among people.

So anyways, today I see on TV, on VH1, a new program called "The Pickup Artist" with this dude named "Mystery" who teaches geeks on how to become a real "Ladies Man". At first, they are to talk to women in a club with no prior training and they did what a "Nice Guy" would do (compliment it, you name it) things I now see as a huge no-no when meeting girls on a party or something. They all got rejected.
Then "Mystery" and his colleagues all went and played hard-to-get, had a really big confidence, told girls to buy him drinks and all the girls just fell head-over-hills.

I couldn' find any parts from the show, but some quick videos at the guy talking about this technique in a really summarized way.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

So now, what would your opinions be regarding this. Is this just bogus, does this work on a relationship, or just for fun? Do you think girls like the whole nice guy thing like they all say, or do they like a badass who will love her while teasing on her, playing-hard-to get, and just have the right attitutide. Tell from your own experience.

P.S. The guys on the Youtube videos doing Nampa in Japan, the video I posted on another thread if some of you remember, these losers need serious help from these guys (if you need a reminder of these...)

Video about a foreigner (trying) picking up girls in Japan
or

Mauricio

 

[Nuala]

I was sarcastic around my last girlfriend, and she loved it. Too bad she had the emotional stability of a crackhead. I'm typically a nice guy though. Of course you can't just walk up to someone and compliment them, it would be very awkward. At least with acting as if you were a jerk they would have a better chance of responding to it.

 

[Kinsao]

Maybe it's that if a guy is being nice and saying compliments and whatever, girls don't believe he is being sincere. I mean, if some guy was to say a compliment to me, it's nice, but I don't think anything about it except to feel pleased... I don't consider he's being 'serious' about wanting to take me out or something. Specially if it's in a club or a pub or some kind of social setting, it's just... too obvious, I suppose (the approach might work better with a girl you were meeting at work, for example). The guy who is being cheeky comes across as being more original and also a sense of humour, which most people find attractive.

Personally, I prefer to do the 'play hard to get' business and come across as aloof (and I have been told arrogant which is probably why I don't have success with guys, haha) and I prefer for the guy to do the chasing... so the 'bad guy' who is more distant and ignoring the girls wouldn't work with me... but everyone is different of course.

Sarcasm is kinda different though; sarcasm is often funny.

I think that sense of humour and confidence are naturally attractive, so the OP makes sense. I can see how that gets the girls. Once in a relationship, though, it's important to show you care about her, even if you are still being teasing and that.

 

[nice gaijin]

nice guys are distance runners, not sprinters. They're no good at picking up ladies, but they're in it for the marathon; it just takes women a long time to realize where their best prospects lay. Jerks are good at getting women interested in them, but jerks are not only awful boyfriends, the girls they attract tend to be pretty lousy girlfriends.

 

[frostyg02uk]

I was about to say more or less the same nice gaijin. jerks tend to get jerks and although nice guys take longer to get who they want they are usually better off. Thats right I think im a nice guy haha. I remember though when I asked my gf out I didnt use any lines I just asked her straight. maybe that works too.

 

[Kinsao]

A jerk will always be a jerk no matter what lines they use or where they learned them from.
From the OP's description of what David DeAngelo was saying, it didn't seem he was advocating acting like a ***** or even not being a nice guy... since most girls will like a guy who shows he cares for them etc... but rather a different approach from the usual compliments/buying them a drink, etc. etc... That 'portray yourself as Mr Nice Guy' approach, to be honest, does not make you stand out from the crowd. Sure it is really nice to have a guy do something sweet and romantic, but that's great on a slightly further stage of getting to know someone (date or something), not just a night out on the pull when you're just trying to get in there. Slightly less ordinary behaviour is more noticeable and makes you look original and fun; energy and confidence (which can come across as 'cocky') is attractive. Of course, once you're in a relationship (or even if it's just come to the point of a first or second date) no guy wants to show himself up as a jerk.

 

[Zaff]

Using one type of chat up doesnt work, you need to know what the girl/woman your trying to woo likes. This is why I never like to "pull" whilst I am on a night out.

For instance one of my ex's was a material pretty girl, she was all about the top brands, her hair etc etc... I had to pull the manly man take control route to get her attention. Another however might like the guy whos intouch with his feminine side.

I dont reccomend being fake if you want a healthy relationship, but if your like me and arent looking for ties at the moment then just edit your approch accordingly

 

[Goldiegirl]

You marry the cool, sarcastic guy first, then when reality hits, you get divorced and find the nice guy. I'll take a nice guy for the long haul of life. You shouldn't have to play a character to get a woman. Eventually she'll figure out that you're a faker and move on....

 

[Zaff]

Yep very true Goldy, i tend to move on before they figure that out though. There again I might just find the girl of my dreams whilst doing this... but i doubt that.

 

[maushan3]

A jerk will always be a jerk no matter what lines they use or where they learned them from.
From the OP's description of what David DeAngelo was saying, it didn't seem he was advocating acting like a ***** or even not being a nice guy... since most girls will like a guy who shows he cares for them etc... but rather a different approach from the usual compliments/buying them a drink, etc. etc... That 'portray yourself as Mr Nice Guy' approach, to be honest, does not make you stand out from the crowd. Sure it is really nice to have a guy do something sweet and romantic, but that's great on a slightly further stage of getting to know someone (date or something), not just a night out on the pull when you're just trying to get in there. Slightly less ordinary behaviour is more noticeable and makes you look original and fun; energy and confidence (which can come across as 'cocky') is attractive. Of course, once you're in a relationship (or even if it's just come to the point of a first or second date) no guy wants to show himself up as a jerk.

Of course, that's exactly what this guy teaches. He says that we shouldn't confuse this approach and this way as "being a jerk". He says this is the way to create attraction. Not only does this make you look like a stud, but at the same time, it increases your confidence, therefore, it is like a cycle-- good things kee happening because you know see yourself as the prize to win and that's what he says creates the attraction.

An example: You approach a girl at a party or something and tell her "What, are you so shy? I saw you didn't have the nerve to talk to me. I'll tell you what: I'll let you buy me a drink as long as you promise me you aren't a stalker." For me this is something that shows that you have respect for yourself and that you are worthy and at the same you aren't disrespecting her, but rather being charming, confident and outgoing.

He states that most guys skip the part where comfert is created. They just go straight to seeing the girl as in "I'm no worthy of you..." kind of thing. When doing the funny lines, she'll see you as confident , therefore leading to the 'relationship' part if the guy wants to move to that next phase.

This does not mean that one shoouldn't do 'romantic' things, but rather do them sporadically. Like at the fifth date give the girl a flower in her favorite color and tell her something cool like "I was doing some things and you popped into my mind and brought you this." Doing things that will always keep them wondering what's next. Being romantic, but in this terms.

Mauricio

 

[El P8s]

People like nice guys but thats as good as it gets for them being nice makes you predictable and boring.
But in my opinion its the same with women.