Cleveland boy killed by cops; Bigger than Ferguson

[Mark of Zorro]

Video: Cop shot boy seconds after encountering him - Yahoo News

Someone might come down on me like I said this was the shooting of the century but....

I am well aware of the riots in Ferguson, and I think that is the main reason for all the press. But my main concern is the central case. And the shooting death of the man in Ferguson I cannot be so sure of. One man is dead and the cops always CYA. No video.

But in this case we have a video...finally. When I first read about the case all I had was the word of cops, relayed through reporters. Naturally they made it sound like the kid acted like he was in a duel on the street in a western or something, and "drew" on the officers, even after the officers demanded he raise his hands no less than three times.

But there was not a damned thing said about how the cops rushed the kid. Naturally, that omission will not be remembered by most.

Watch the video, and beware the red circles. The point of the circles seems to be to draw your attention away from the actions of the cops. Look how they zoomed up to the kid, and the one cop jumps out and shots him almost point blank and almost instantly.

Well, maybe the cop did yell three times super fast to put his hands up. Maybe he began yelling from the window even before exiting the vehicle. But who the hell could have heard him clearly and responded correctly in time?

And that is assuming the officer is not lying. That is assuming the officer did not say "drop the weapon" rather than "hands up".

I don't know what will happen with this case. It might get tossed out by a grand jury just like the Ferguson case. But the way I see it, the proof of wrong doing by cops is overwhelming in this case in Cleveland. Its bigger than Ferguson in my mind. But I am afraid it will not get the attention it deserves.

What do you think?

 

[Mike Cash]

Who's the Chief of Police in Cleveland, Mack Sennett?

 

[Grandpa Frank]

I have to admit , I watched that video and felt it was handled a bit fast. There was a longer video that showed him pointing it in the face of 2 people walking by like he was trying to rob them at gunpoint. There was also a comment that the dispatcher was told it might be a toy gun , but failed to tell that to the responding officers.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I have to admit , I watched that video and felt it was handled a bit fast.

As overly mild and tepid as I find that comment to be, I am glad that you at least seem to be on my side of the fence, Uncle Frank.

There was a longer video that showed him pointing it in the face of 2 people walking by like he was trying to rob them at gunpoint.

I have not seen that. Got a link? It certainly would warrant a 911 call, but was it one of them who made the call?

And while it would warrant the call, it most certainly would not warrant rushing up point blank into the kid's face and barking orders faster than anyone could comply.

There was also a comment that the dispatcher was told it might be a toy gun , but failed to tell that to the responding officers.

As true as that seems to be, even if it was known to be a real gun, still the response was ridiculous and grossly overbearing. Hell, those cops did not even have their flashers on! And it looks to me like they were going straight through the park, driving on the grass. Anyone would be right to be confused about their presence and purpose, and doubly so if they were 12. I understand the kid was in the park for like an hour before this.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I got to say it matters not to me that the kid was 12. It matters not to me that the gun was fake or that the orange tip had been painted over. It matters not to me the race of anyone involved.

What matters to me is that the cops handled this like they were a SWAT team responding to a call of random mass murder, but they weren't and it wasn't.

It seems to me that their training must have been limited to back to back re-runs of Dirty Harry movies, and that still would not account for their utter lack of IQ.

 

[Mike Cash]

What idjit rolls up to within what looks to be about five feet of a subject reported as brandishing a gun? That effectively put the passenger side cop in a position where in the interest of his own safety he has little choice but to shoot before he can even get fully stood up yet. The officer driving deserves a good portion of responsibility for how this went.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

The officer driving deserves a good portion of responsibility for how this went.

Absolutely. But I was wondering if the cop in the passenger seat put him up to it. There might have been a bit of miscommunication as to exactly how close to get, but, surely the cop in the passenger seat was aware of how fast they were approaching without lights on and how they just kept getting closer.

I would have thought that training would dictate a considerable distance, lights flashing and communicating orders through the loud speaker rather than a surprise attack. Surely neither cop had any intention of approaching this situation slowly and methodically.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Most of my video info comes from a site called Live Leak which runs through them real fast. You sometimes have to go back several pages to find something you saw a few hours before. The info on this came from Facebook , but since I subscribe to about 25 police sites and 25 gun/weapon sites , I don't remember which one said what , sorry to say. I also have the habit of deleting each of the Facebook posts as soon as I read them, so it's hard to go back and review. I do feel the two officers will get some kind of rebuke over the whole way it was handled. In the end though , the kid takes some responsibility for waving it around at people and doing away with the orange marker . Unless he had some kind of learning disability , a 12 year old should have known better. I'm sure the 2 officers are feeling pretty bad about the whole situation after the adrenalin ran out. I'll try in the future to write down where my info came from , sorry.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

No sweat Uncle Frank. I was hoping for a link, not expecting. I have plenty of trouble uncovering things I once saw on the net myself, so I understand.

I do feel the two officers will get some kind of rebuke over the whole way it was handled.

And I think you are right, even in using such a mild term as "rebuke" but I don't like it. Unless there is some extreme information I am not aware of, I think they deserve far more than just a rebuke.

I'm sure the 2 officers are feeling pretty bad about the whole situation after the adrenalin ran out.

We will see just how bad as time goes by. Their actions, or lack thereof, will speak to me louder than words.

In the end though , the kid takes some responsibility for waving it around at people and doing away with the orange marker . Unless he had some kind of learning disability , a 12 year old should have known better.

A few things I have to say in response: 1) I don't know how he got the gun. If it was borrowed or given to him by someone other than his parents, or if it was he or some other kid who took the orange mark off.

2) I don't know what all was done or said, but kids have been pointing toy guns at people ever since the toy gun was invented.

3) This is going to sound horrible, but the kid was Black. Racism? No. I am just going to guess that he was raised by Black parents in a Black community and that means, he was raised in American Black culture. And American Black culture does not have a gun culture, at least not one that is respectful of firearms and by extension, air guns or toy guns.

WASP culture has had guns since the beginning of the gun. Black culture in America had been denied firearm ownership for how long? In my whole life, I don't recall ever seeing one Black hunter or one Black open carry advocate/protestor. The one Black family my grandmother lived next to could not even imagine having guns in the house.

My mother HATES guns so much she would not even let me have a toy gun. But in the family she is known to be a good shot! I share her hate of guns on many levels. But that did not prevent me from taking a hunter safety course or learning to shoot or even taking the gun my father gave me or make me throw away the gun my grandpa hid in the closest (from the rest of the family, all women, who would not have tolerated it). And there was also the community I grew up in, where I was surrounded by hunters and everything from mild mannered gun owners to full bore gun nuts.

So despite my family's anti-gun bent, I learned a lot about guns. But the Black family next door? I doubt any of them would know a semi-automatic from a lever action. Or have any idea that 12 gauge refers to a shotgun. They feared guns on an emotional level. They were the type of people that if you handed them a gun, they would quake and drop it. My family merely had a healthy respect for guns. You could hand them a gun and they could shoot it. But they would prefer the damned things did not exist.

So what am I getting at? I think its far less likely for a Black kid to have been taught to respect guns and have a care for what they are doing with a toy gun.

But regardless, I think his own blame is too minor to even consider much. I think it would be difficult to blame the parents if they come from what I believe is the typical Black culture with regard to guns: overbearing fear.

I do think plenty of White people have the problem too though.

America really needs a toy and BB gun safety course for all elementary school students. I have never seen one, and so I am quicker to blame society than the boy or even his parents. But such a course will only be a preventative measure to ward off gung ho cops, and not a cure.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

From the cop who shot the boy, when he shot him to death:

'Shots fired,' one of the officers tells the dispatcher on another call. 'Male down, black male, maybe 20, black hand gun.'

Shots fired? More like, fired shots eh dude? Got to love the noncommittal language that make its look like the cop was shot at. Its garbage like that that makes me dislike cops, on top of other garbage that makes me hate them.

And maybe 20? That is just another fine chunk of proof that they did not ascertain the situation at all before rushing in.

Also, I learned that the cop claims to have yelled at the boy to put his hands up, but out the window of the car as they were rushing up. And the kid did not obey. I wonder if it occurred to the fool that yells from a fast moving car are really hard to hear outside the car. God only knows how much noise was created by the car engine. And does this clown even realize that some people have hearing problems and that some are completely deaf?

Protests have started although they are peaceful so far. I predict that is all going to change as the officers get treated with kid gloves. Cleveland boy Tamir Rice's family breaks silence to slam officers who killed him | Daily Mail Online