Chinese in Japan.

dadako · 21 Jun 2004

When I was living in Kanagawa I use to hear a lot of stories from Japanese people, about Chinese people. Common themes were that Chinese came to Japan to do many bad or gang related things.
Having seen and interacted with quite a few Chinese nationals and British born Chinese in England (we do have a high population here), I thought this was all just guff. Japanese people flexing thier all too used exnophobic muscle.

But recently I've started to notice the divide once again.

On Japanese TV there was always stories of what Chinese were doing, from stealing bikes to stealing people. Most of it usual JapTV trash. However talking to both Japanese and Chinese people in the UK, Chinese people say that loads of them go over there to take advantage from the gulible Japanese, and thier flexible laws. Japanese people say the same thing.

So I guess its true then?

dadako · 22 Jun 2004

yeah I guess so. chinese are evil init

Golgo_13 · 22 Jun 2004

dadako said:
. . . Chinese people say that loads of them go over there to take advantage from the gulible Japanese, and thier flexible laws.

The prosecution rests.

canadian_kor · 22 Jun 2004

dadako said:
When I was living in Kanagawa I use to hear a lot of stories from Japanese people, about Chinese people. Common themes were that Chinese came to Japan to do many bad or gang related things.
Having seen and interacted with quite a few Chinese nationals and British born Chinese in England (we do have a high population here), I thought this was all just guff. Japanese people flexing thier all too used exnophobic muscle.

But recently I've started to notice the divide once again.

On Japanese TV there was always stories of what Chinese were doing, from stealing bikes to stealing people. Most of it usual JapTV trash. However talking to both Japanese and Chinese people in the UK, Chinese people say that loads of them go over there to take advantage from the gulible Japanese, and thier flexible laws. Japanese people say the same thing.

So I guess its true then?

I really like Chinese people. I think they are the most friendly, open-minded, and flexible of all the Asian groups. However, I think Chinese people living in Japan is more difficult than Koreans living in Japan. Koreans and Japanese have similar cultures and characteristics (both are neat-freaks, perfectionists, and highly conscious of "doing things the right way"), while Chinese people are more care-free and loose. I think the more strict lifestyles of the Japanese may make Chinese people go up the wall.

mad pierrot · 22 Jun 2004

Ah...

PHP:

chinese are evil init

Right on, Chinese people are evil. Have you heard their latest evil plot? All the people in China are going to jump up at exactly the same moment, and when they come crashing down the combined effect will throw the earth's spin off balance causing it to crash into the sun.

:chinese:
-That cracks me up everytime!

dadako · 22 Jun 2004

I only bring it up because my girlfriend is chinese, and we're going to japan again. I guess I'll get a lot of flack from Japanese

Golgo_13 · 23 Jun 2004

dadako said:
I only bring it up because my girlfriend is chinese, and we're going to japan again. I guess I'll get a lot of flack from Japanese

Why do you say that?

Do you think people on the street will go up to you and demand your explanation of why your girlfriend is Chinese? Is she gonna be wearing a sign?

Both of you are foreign visiters in Japan, that's all they give a hoot about.

mad pierrot said:
PHP:

chinese are evil init

Right on, Chinese people are evil. Have you heard their latest evil plot? All the people in China are going to jump up at exactly the same moment, and when they come crashing down the combined effect will throw the earth's spin off balance causing it to crash into the sun.

:chinese:
-That cracks me up everytime!

If they all farted at the same time, the same effect.

canadian_kor said:
Chinese people are more care-free and loose. I think the more strict lifestyles of the Japanese may make Chinese people go up the wall.

Even the Chinese who live in Singapore where you can't even chew gum?

And penalties for crime are much harsher than in Japan?

dadako · 23 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
Why do you say that?
Even the Chinese who live in Singapore where you can't even chew gum?

err, singapore? isn't that a muslim country.

Yeah the reason I bring it up is because I'm planning to live there again, and I know what Japanese are like for gossip, does anyone else have experiences / stories about chinese living in japan?

Golgo_13 · 23 Jun 2004

dadako said:
err, singapore? isn't that a muslim country.

The population of Singapore, a city-state at the tip of the Malaysian peninsula, is Chinese 76.7%, Malay 14%, Indian 7.9%, other 1.4%.

Religions: Buddhist (Chinese), Muslim (Malays), Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, Confucianist.

Since the Chinese are the ethnic majority, it is NOT an Islamic country.

-Yu- · 24 Jun 2004

Recently I watched something about exchanging students from China in Japan.

Most of the families of exchanging students are not rich but they prepare a lot of money for it, however it's still not enough for something but they think they can take part-time jobs here in japan.

As a matter of the fact, their prepared money runs out quickly cause in Japan everything costs much higher therefore they go into the situation they have to make up extra money. The matter is most Chinese people can't get even part-time jobs here because most shops refuse to employ them just because they are not Japanese. This is one of big reasons that cause them to commit crimes.

I really wonder why shops refuse to employ them, well I can ofcourse think of something like shops managers think if cusomers notice get served by Chinese, they feel uncomfortable, but it doesn't really matter cause they tend to work harder than Japanese, I mean in this situation, they desperately need money so ofcourse they work harder than usual.

As the number of foreigners increases, Japan has to change things to suit the situation, they shouldn't keep with old stupid ideas.

My sentences seem a bit mature, but yeah, it was just whay I thought, any commets?

canadian_kor · 24 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
Even the Chinese who live in Singapore where you can't even chew gum?

And penalties for crime are much harsher than in Japan?

I'm not talking about laws and governments, I'm talking about the mentality and lifestyle of people. Sure, Singapore has stricter laws than Japan, but I am not talking about that. Just spend enough time around Chinese and then spend enough time around Koreans/Japanese and you'll quickly discover the differences in how they think, behave, etc. You'll find that it is much easier to befriend a Chinese person, but you'll also have to adapt to their more care-free mentality. In fact, in general, I find Chinese girls much easier to talk to, introduce myself to, befriend, etc. than Korean or Japanese girls. A Chinese person living in Korea or Japan will find it hard to adapt to the more neat-freaky and standoffish mentality of Koreans and Japanese.

Golgo_13 · 24 Jun 2004

"The matter is most Chinese people can't get even part-time jobs here because most shops refuse to employ them just because they are not Japanese. This is one of big reasons that cause them to commit crimes."

Then why go to a country knowing you can't afford to be there? I had a chance to study in Japan my junior year in college but didn't go because I knew I couldn't afford it. If the Chinese students came to the U.S. instead to study, they still wouldn't be able to get jobs with only student visas NOT BECAUSE they're Chinese. It is a crime for the businesses to hire aliens not qualified to work in the U.S. legally.

There's also no excuse for committing crimes. Chinese who are in Japan illegally with organized crime backgrounds are also committing crimes.

"A Chinese person living in Korea or Japan will find it hard to adapt to the more neat-freaky and standoffish mentality of Koreans and Japanese."

He/she would stilll have to adapt if that person insists on living in Japan. You can't expect the Japanese to change to accomodate any foreigners. On the other hand, if a Japanese or a Korean goes to China/Taiwan/HK, he has to adapt to the Chinese ways.

shiroma · 24 Jun 2004

-Yu- said:
Most of the families of exchanging students are not rich but they prepare a lot of money for it, however it's still not enough for something but they think they can take part-time jobs here in japan.

Foreign students in Japan are allowed to work part-time with permits, currently up to 28 hours a week based on Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law Article 19 Section 2, which everyone who plans to study in Japan had better be aware of.

As a matter of the fact, their prepared money runs out quickly cause in Japan everything costs much higher therefore they go into the situation they have to make up extra money.

International students in the US have to submit bank statements or letters of scholarship/sponsorship to prove that they have enough funds to live without jobs for at least a year when they apply to universities. I wonder if Japan has a similar policy too.

It still would be naive to move to a foreign country without solid plans on money issues, unless the plan is to find under-the-table job deals there.

The matter is most Chinese people can't get even part-time jobs here because most shops refuse to employ them just because they are not Japanese.

Foreign students' part-time work in the US is limited to on-campus jobs, whereas off-campus jobs are also allowed in Japan for wider opportunities and experiences.

Tokyo Employment Service Center for Foreigners would be helpful for them, not to mention Hello Work offices all over Japan, the public job agency run by Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare's Employment Security Bureau, which does take care of non-Japanese employment too.

It is hard to imagine a student who bothers going through paperwork at the local immigration bureau to obtain the work permit chooses to wander around the streets looking for shops with "now hiring" signs instead of getting helps and advises from various organizations like ones mentioned above.

This is one of big reasons that cause them to commit crimes.

Perceived employment unequality due to ignorance does not justify crimes.

I really wonder why shops refuse to employ them,

What is likely to happen there when a foreigner walks in a shop asking for a part-time position showing the work permit would be, the shop owner has never seen such permit before, it might well be forged, other applicants are always there, it's just too much to risk the entire shop and the owner's possible crime record.
Businesses that are willing to hire foreign students would certainly prefer going through agencies like Hello Work or the school office since they are better in handling special cases, as well as assuring the validity of the permit.
Anyone who is intelligent enough to receive higher education abroad should be able to imagine this kind of basic stuff.

Now the story is totally different if the employer is in the "rough" business field, rather close to organized crime, such as construction industry. They happily exploit illegal workers and do not mind an arrest or two.
Demands for such low-wage laborers are huge, in fact the supplies just keep coming in thousands. Some enter Japan under student visa status with no intention to attend school.
This is a related news article.

kara · 24 Jun 2004

>デムパで厨にマジレスすると空しくなる

ご苦労様でした。
東京のターミナル駅なんかの大きめな居酒屋あたりだと、留学生が働いていない店を見つける方が難しいだろうに、「中国人が店員だと客が不快になるからだろう」とか言われてもねえ。。

で、差別糾弾大好きの割には西安留学生事件なんか頬かむりだったりするんだから、なかなか大変ですわな。

Mandylion · 24 Jun 2004

名無し said:
Foreign students in Japan are allowed to work part-time with permits, currently up to 28 hours a week based on Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law Article 19 Section 2, which everyone who plans to study in Japan had better be aware of.

Off topic, but visas are an important issue and lots of people on this form hope to be a student in Japan someday. Please allow this digression

I followed you link and can find no information stipulating that a student can work 28 hours. The link seems to be converned with changing of status, and everything depends on MOJ approving the changes. Infact, this page from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stipulates that college students cannot work on a student visa. For a student to work, they would have to apply for a change of status (ie change their visa type). The Japanese embassy website in Washington DC says students must prove they have enought funds to cover the cost of living in Japan for the length of their studies (just as does the US). Assuming a student has enough funds, why would they need to work? Being irresponsible or falling to fate and losing your cash doesn't entitle you to a work visa - something many more people are after. What it entitles you to is a hefty fine and a oneway, billed, ticket home and a damning mark against any future visa applications. If you graduate and go to work for a company and need a change of status, that is a different issue.

I'd be interested in seeing the charts and tables Aritcle 19 is supposed to have, but I can't seem to find them. Indeed, you might be right and the websites might be behind current developments but it bucks everything I have read and been told so far. Is there a link that spells it out a little clearer for me?

canadian_kor · 24 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
He/she would stilll have to adapt if that person insists on living in Japan. You can't expect the Japanese to change to accomodate any foreigners. On the other hand, if a Japanese or a Korean goes to China/Taiwan/HK, he has to adapt to the Chinese ways.

Well, personally, I wouldn't want to move to China/Taiwan/HK. If I had to move to Asia I would only choose South Korea or Japan. There is no way I can handle being around people who have a nonchalant attitude towards...hmm...tidyness (no offense to any Chinese person here). I'm too much of a neat-freak and a germ-freak to live in an environment like that. My Japanese friend and I always joke about this when we talk about other Asian groups. I'm sure many other Koreans and Japanese feel the same about this issue too.

-Yu- · 24 Jun 2004

名無し said:
It is hard to imagine a student who bothers going through paperwork at the local immigration bureau to obtain the work permit chooses to wander around the streets looking for shops with "now hiring" signs instead of getting helps and advises from various organizations like ones mentioned above.Perceived employment unequality due to ignorance does not justify crimes.What is likely to happen there when a foreigner walks in a shop asking for a part-time position showing the work permit would be, the shop owner has never seen such permit before, it might well be forged, other applicants are always there, it's just too much to risk the entire shop and the owner's possible crime record.
Businesses that are willing to hire foreign students would certainly prefer going through agencies like Hello Work or the school office since they are better in handling special cases, as well as assuring the validity of the permit.
Anyone who is intelligent enough to receive higher education abroad should be able to imagine this kind of basic stuff.

Thank you for adding more appropriate information.
Hummm, yes I know why they don't want to hire foreigners but isn't it too harsh? What I saw was one Chinese guy applied for a part-time job in the shop which had a sign saying "need workers now", the result was "No".
If laws permit them to work and the oweners don't have difinite reasons to refuse it, shouldn't they employ them? I actually wonder if they have right refusing it.

Ewok85 · 25 Jun 2004

Mandylion has the idea. Students in Japan must show before hand that they have accomadation and enough money or someone who will support them in Japan. Part time work = dame.

I met a nice Chinese girl in the local 7-11. Had a chat with her for a while cause the shop was empty, it seems amusing to have a conversation with someone else in a language thats not native to either person.

shiroma · 25 Jun 2004

Mandylion said:
Is there a link that spells it out a little clearer for me?

資格外活動 is the search keyword.

Google hits

dadako · 25 Jun 2004

kara said:
>デムパで厨にマジレスすると空しくなる

ご苦労様でした。
東京のターミナル駅なんかの大きめな居酒屋あたりだと、留学生が働いていない店を見つける方が難しいだろうに、「中国人が店員だと客が不快になるからだろう」とか言われてもねえ。。

で、差別糾弾大好きの割には西安留学生事件なんか頬かむりだったりするんだから、なかなか大変ですわな。

?

why post a japanese reply if you understand the english posts?

Glenn · 25 Jun 2004

He was responding to 名無し's reason for editing, which was in Japanese. I guess he meant for his response to be intended for 名無し only (I know I had problems with it; some of the words aren't even in the dictionary).

Jopok · 25 Jun 2004

Today's Fresh News from JapanToday

Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 19:30 JST
TOKYO 窶 A station worker and several railway passengers were injured Thursday by a group of four or five knife-wielding assailants when they tried to prevent the group from robbing a woman at a railway station in Tokyo, police said.

The incident occurred just past noon Thursday at Denen-Chofu Station in Ota Ward as the assailants tried to take a wallet from the 80-year-old woman, they said.

In coming to the woman's aid, the station worker and the passengers sustained injuries when the thieves fought back with pepper spray and knives.

The police later arrested one man elsewhere in Ota Ward in connection with the case, and are searching for the other suspects.

The police said they believe the assailants, who fled the scene, were foreign nationals of Asian origin. (Kyodo News)

Opinions from the rest of the world.

Oh God, these crimes are getting more and more despicable. Picking on the helpless and the weak. These criminals deserve no mercy. I've often wondered whether in crimes like these (and that one in Shibuya) whether it was possible for someone to push these guys down the stairs as they were coming up. They certainly deserve it. I just watched it on NHK, and apparently the one that was caught was a South Korean.

Everything is in this word... Maybe it's in japan that it takes its best meaning: gaikokujin - the guy from outside...
Sad japanese who forgot that they're all from outside japan.

To determine news worthiness in Japan you take the seriousness of a crime, multiply by 2 if the Yakuza are involved, 5 if the perpetrator is a school child, multiply by 10 if a foreigner is involved, and by 20 if the foreigner is associated with the US Military (or 30 if we're talking about Okinawa).

End result is if a Chinese American Jr. high school student win a GI parent in Okinawa gets caught jay-walking it makes the front page of the Japan Times. This is a slight exageration, but please tell me if it doesn't ring true.

Golgo_13 · 25 Jun 2004

"Everything is in this word... Maybe it's in japan that it takes its best meaning: gaikokujin - the guy from outside...
Sad japanese who forgot that they're all from outside japan."

Since all humanity began in Africa, all Europeans are from outside Europe, all Chinese are from outside China, and everyone on the Western Hemisphere is from somewhere else.

kara · 25 Jun 2004

dadako said:
?

why post a japanese reply if you understand the english posts?

As Glenn guessing correctly, I wrote my previous message in Japanese for a response to a Japanese message. There's no secret nor special reason(or can you read it as former Kanagawa resident?).

I only bring it up because my girlfriend is chinese, and we're going to japan again. I guess I'll get a lot of flack from Japanese

To Japan as travellers? or residents?

Glenn · 26 Jun 2004

kara said:
(or can you read it as former Kanagawa resident?).

Is it Kanagawa-ben? That would at least make me feel better.

By the way, I've never been to Japan, in case you were wondering.

Chinese in Japan.

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