Abe must hate Japan

nahadef · 4 Jan 2014

I really thought Abe wouldn't go any lower than his petulant insistence on visiting Yasukuni, always wanting to reframe history, and just in general being useless to the health of the country.

Let's go to this press conference:
Abe says Japan's pacifist constitution may be revised by 2020 - Channel NewsAsia

Japan's nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has said the country's pacifist post-World War II constitution which limits its military to self-defence could be amended by 2020.

In a New Year comment published in the conservative daily Sankei Shimbun on Wednesday, Abe predicted the constitution "will have been revised" by 2020 when Tokyo hosts the Summer Olympics.

Everything about this rubs the wrong way. Japan has the fifth biggest military in the world. Why would they need to be about more than self-defence? I've never met a Japanese who wasn't proud that their country was one with a self-defence policy. I even had a JSDF guy correct me that he wasn't army, when I mistakenly interchanged those words.

And the choice to declare it by Japan's Olympic year seems like a total baiting of China and Korea to protest through the event.

Then add to this:

"(By 2020), I think Japan will have completely restored its status and been making great contributions to peace and stability in the region and the world," he said.

Who in the region wants Japan to make more contributions to peace and stability? Maybe Taiwan? Possibly 100 years from now, Japan's neighbours will have moved on to other grudges. But for now, this move will lead to instability.

I found that article by accident, looking for something on this, which I'd planned to start a thread on:
Japanese Goverment Funds New Foreign Channel to Air Anime - News - Anime News Network

The Japanese government will fund a new foreign "Japan Channel" that will broadcast anime, dramas, music programs, and travel programs. The government is allocating 15.5 billion yen (about US$14.7 million) for subtitling and dubbing costs as well as publicity, setting up foreign broadcasting offices, and co-producing programs. The new channel will launch in Thailand in January, in Indonesia in February, and in Cambodia in April. The government is also considering launching the channel in the United States, Europe, and Africa.

In the meantime, the government will spend millions (not so bad, maybe 20 yen per citizen) to create a propaganda network in South Asia. Not military propaganda per se, just something to make the very young have superficial positive associations with the country.

Add to that the horrible secrecy law they've already passed, and the future of Japan looks really really dark. Use the techniques of the future to push Japan into the past. It's not enough to make me renounce my citizenship to get a vote here, but it one day might if it keeps going this way.

thomas · 4 Jan 2014

nahadef said:
Use the techniques of the future to push Japan into the past. It's not enough to make me renounce my citizenship to get a vote here, but it one day might if it keeps going this way.

Yes, it does look bleak. And I'm not sure what his revisionst agenda actually aims at. A new Pan-Asian Co-Prosperity Zone?

However, I would not underestimate the intelligence of the Japanese electorate. Sooner or later, Abenomics will turn out to be nothing but a pipe dream, public debts will continue to snowball, and it definitely won't be Mr Abe attending the inauguration of the Tokyo Olympics.

nahadef · 4 Jan 2014

thomas said:
However, I would not underestimate the intelligence of the Japanese electorate. Sooner or later, Abenomics will turn out to be nothing but a pipe dream, public debts will continue to snowball, and it definitely won't be Mr Abe attending the inauguration of the Tokyo Olympics.

I'm of mixed emotions. Most are so apolitical, and the rest are so focused on economics that I have a hard time seeing them care about international relations.

Glenski · 5 Jan 2014

Any claims by Japan to do anything by a certain date (other then prepare for the Olympics) have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Abe won't last long, certainly not until 2020, so policies will change when he leaves.

caster55 · 7 Jan 2014

I've never met a Japanese who wasn't proud that their country was one with a self-defence policy

and the time was changed,..
【産経ＦＮＮ合同世論調査】集団的自衛権行使は容認派が多数憲法改正は賛成やや上回る - MSN産経ニュース
at first Japanese constitution..

We, the Japanese People, acting through our duly elected representatives in the National Diet, determined that we shall secure for ourselves and our posterity the fruits of peaceful cooperation with all nations and the blessings of liberty throughout this land, and resolved that never again shall we be visited with the horrors of war through the action of government, do proclaim the sovereignty of the people's will and do ordain and establish this Constitution, founded upon the universal principle that government is a sacred trust the authority for which is derived from the people, the powers of which are exercised by the representatives of the people, and the benefits of which are enjoyed by the people; and we reject and revoke all constitutions, ordinances, laws and rescripts in conflict herewith.
Desiring peace for all time and fully conscious of the high ideals controlling human relationship now stirring mankind, we have determined to rely for our security and survival upon the justice and good faith of the peace-loving peoples of the world. We desire to occupy an honored place in an international society designed and dedicated to the preservation of peace, and the banishment of tyranny and slavery, oppression and intolerance, for all time from the earth. We recognize and acknowledge that all peoples have the right to live in peace, free from fear and want.
We hold that no people is responsible to itself alone, but that laws of political morality are universal; and that obedience to such laws is incumbent upon all peoples who would sustain their own sovereignty and justify their sovereign relationship with other peoples.
To these high principles and purposes we, the Japanese People, pledge our national honor, determined will and full resources.

many people realized it was wrong.. who is peace loving?
this one is getting useless... and of course it does not protect the Japanese
as for Japanese debt, it does not worry about it

As for Abe, he is a Just one of them that majority of Japanese people want.
next PM will be one ... this flow will not be changed

anyway. The greatest mission in a state is keeping " the people's life and property."
If the constitution sets national peace and safety as the greatest purpose, "the constitution must not be for the constitution and must be for national"
Unlike an expert or a scholar, it is a role of the politics of "being anything." or everything is OK
It must not fix the interpretation of the law about any security in the fluctuating world either

astarisborn94 · 10 Jan 2014

I've always had a bad vibe about Shinzo Abe for some reason (then again, I'm not a regular follower of politics, though I have started to try to follow it). It doesn't help that the government is revising textbook to reflect the government's viewpoint on history. Wanted to post a thread about it, but never got around it.

In the meantime, the government will spend millions (not so bad, maybe 20 yen per citizen) to create a propaganda network in South Asia. Not military propaganda per se, just something to make the very young have superficial positive associations with the country.

As someone who enjoys anime, hearing this perspective from you doesn't make me feel good about potentially watching it (not that I disagree with you).

Mark of Zorro · 11 Jan 2014

I've never met a Japanese who wasn't proud that their country was one with a self-defence policy. I even had a JSDF guy correct me that he wasn't army, when I mistakenly interchanged those words.

You should have corrected him back. An army is an army. All demands that an army is a self-defense force is semantics and words on paper. At best, an SDF is one type of army. But its still a friggen army. They have guns, mortars, grenades, tanks and other attack vehicles just like any other army. Where they aim those weapons will be on command.

I just had a vicious argument about this,but Article 9 does not allow for Japan to have an army ie. SDF. Article 9 says that Japan cannot have any war potential. At all. Period. But Japan does. And a hell of a lot of it and of much better quality than what China has.

Its great to have a soldier in an army adamantly declare that his army can only be used for self-defense, but if by a stroke of the pen the SDF is changed to the Japanese Armed Forces, one has to wonder if he will have the balls to quit or if he will just shut up and go along with it. But I guarantee he won't be ready to proffer the balls to quit unless he realizes how quickly a definition can change. Please, tell him. He and all those in the army should know and be ready.

Anyway, Abe. He is not useless. He is worse than useless. But to those with similar interests, who really don't care about Japan or her citizens' well-being, he is a boon.

Yasukuni should be burnt to the ground. I lament that all who tried were stopped. All that accuse me of being too extreme in that would support me if I said that same of a memorial site that honored Hitler and the Nazis, and claimed their sins were forgiven in death. It would be a Mecca for skinheads as Yasukuni Is for uyoku. I see no difference between Tojo and Hitler, or the Nazi war criminals or the Japanese ones. So I say again, Yasukuni should be burnt to the ground.

That Abe visited Yasukuni only shows his true stripes. He speaks of peace, but he visits Yasukuni to pay respects? Actions speak louder than words. Abe is dangerous.

caster55 · 13 Jan 2014

Question one.
at first
what is relation between called A-war criminal and Hitler?

and what relation between called A-war criminal and Korea?

what is difference of war crime and Nazi's crime ?

caster55 · 13 Jan 2014

Question 2
as for political relation with the neighboring country, How is it bad to visit to Yasukuni?
Does it improve the relation, if it does not go to Yasukuni?

nahadef · 13 Jan 2014

caster55 said:
Question one.
at first
what is relation between called A-war criminal and Hitler?

and what relation between called A-war criminal and Korea?

what is difference of war crime and Nazi's crime ?

A war criminal is a class, Hitler is a person.

A war criminal is a class, Korea is a country.

The Nazi's crimes were war crimes.

caster55 said:
Question 2
as for political relation with the neighboring country, How is it bad to visit to Yasukuni?
Does it improve the relation, if it does not go to Yasukuni?

This is such a blind spot for some Japanese, and I don't get it at all.

China claims offence if the prime minister pays tribute. So the prime minister goes. China is offended. Diplomacy is hurt.

I don't think China is genuinely offended about Yasukuni, I think they use the issue as a kind of political scapegoat. BUT that is not a reason to visit. When Abe visits, he gives ammunition to China. They can say, "We warned you, now we are offended."

If Abe doesn't go, China has nothing to whine about. It may not improve relations, but it takes power away from China. Going to Yasukuni gives China power.

For that matter, that probably makes Abe happy, since the angrier China is, the more right he is to remilitarise Japan. Push at China, then claim he needs more power since China pushes back.

They're all a bunch of children pushing for power, completely apathetic to the millions of people who can be hurt by their arrogant pride.

caster55 · 13 Jan 2014

I don't think China is genuinely offended about Yasukuni, I think they use the issue as a kind of political scapegoat. BUT that is not a reason to visit. When Abe visits, he gives ammunition to China. They can say, "We warned you, now we are offended."

I do not think so. it is a just matter of Japanese mind,.
indeed it has nothing to do with militarization of Japan.
"we were offend" by person's mind?

If Abe doesn't go, China has nothing to whine about. It may not improve relations, but it takes power away from China. Going to Yasukuni gives China power.

they were bullying to japan even before Abe's visiting by senkaku island.
so were south korea.

For that matter, that probably makes Abe happy, since the angrier China is, the more right he is to remilitarise Japan. Push at China, then claim he needs more power since China pushes back.

They're all a bunch of children pushing for power, completely apathetic to the millions of people who can be hurt by their arrogant pride.

Just by visiting Yasukuni to swear no war again there?

caster55 · 13 Jan 2014

A war criminal is a class, Hitler is a person. ... How about Tojo

A war criminal is a class, Korea is a country..... it has nothing to do with war criminal right?

The Nazi's crimes were war crimes.....what did they do against innocent Jew?

Mark of Zorro · 8 Feb 2014

American Sec. of State John Kerry just promised that America would help the Japanese protect the Senkakus from attack.

This means that Abe will feel free to do whatever now with regards to the Senkakus/Diaoyu, knowing that Superman will surely come to bail him out of whatever stupid situation he creates.

Dammit Kerry! Wrong move.

caster55 · 9 Feb 2014

it is just for American national interests. lol

Mark of Zorro · 10 Feb 2014

caster55 said:
it is just for American national interests. lol

Goes without saying for every foreign relations decision America ever made.

Its hard to say though if this serves America more than saying they won't help with the Senkakus. Its a fine line.

But of course what I care about most are things like peace and justice. I don't give a crap about America's interests since America's interests are so often served by war and injustice.

The only thing I would offer to help Japan with is protecting Okinawa and the mainland or helping to hand the Senkakus/ Diaoyu back to the Chinese. Yeah, I said BACK to the Chinese.

caster55 · 10 Feb 2014

Chine would say " return kyushu". lol
it is a Yakuza logic.

nahadef · 10 Feb 2014

Uyokus will laugh at anybody who doesn't support their interpretation of facts, which is, unfortunate for them, 99% of the planet. Must be lonely.

Mark of Zorro · 10 Feb 2014

caster55 said:
Chine would say " return kyushu". lol
it is a Yakuza logic.

China has never said anything about Kyushu or any place remotely like Kyushu.

Recently a couple of scholars talked about Okinawa, and of course, the western press spun that into the Chinese government making a claim to Okinawa.

Its amazing how the detractors can make such ridiculous statements and get them foisted on China. Even I am having trouble believing how stupid people are, but it does seem most are falling for this sort of nonsense.

caster55 · 18 Feb 2014

china has never said about senkaku island beforeﾂ 1968

nahadef · 15 Mar 2014

I still think Abe is a pathetic human being, obsessed with WWII, but I appreciate that he has capitulated this week. Hopefully the uyokus still trying to rewrite the past can take a lesson from this.
Abe: Kono sex slave apology stands | The Japan Times

thomas · 15 Mar 2014

It seems he's under a lot of US pressure not to escalate this issue. Definitely a step in the right direction.

South Korea expresses relief over Abe's comments on Japan war apologies | Reuters

nahadef · 15 Mar 2014

thomas said:
It seems he's under a lot of US pressure not to escalate this issue. Definitely a step in the right direction.

South Korea expresses relief over Abe's comments on Japan war apologies | Reuters

It will be quite a blow to the Caster55s of the world if Abe's concept of truth depends on outside pressure of other countries. Either a number of 70-something Korean women testified, decades removed and through tears, absolute lies, or they were telling the truth. Of course, they were telling the truth, since the lie would be so much more implausible, and even those Japanese truly interested in the issue acknowledge the truth of the matter.

I try to imagine how much money the government of Canada would have to have had paid me to get me, as a senior citizen under oath, to testify lies against another country. It seems pretty implausible that the government could assemble 16 people willing to do so, without a number of conscientious objectors revealing the government's scam over the past 20 years.

Abe knows the truth of reported history, and has buckled under the pressure. I respect him for his capitulation in this case. Better to fail honestly than deluded with lies.

Dotanbatan · 16 Mar 2014

I don't share the hate or fear of Abe that others on the forum have but his 'nationalist' conservatism does worry me, to a degree.

He knows exactly what he's doing and although I disagree with most of his ideals, you have to admit that he is a very accomplished politician whether you agree with him or not. He is surviving in one of the most fickle political systems in the world. I think he learnt a lot from his first term and you also have to look at his background to see where his thinking comes from. His childhood was immersed in politics - His grandather was Prime minister in the 1950s and his father was a post war foreign minister ... this would have shaped his ideals and his totally honest declaration that he wants to visit Yasukuni to pay respect to the Japanese who died in the war.
A lot of Japanese share his belief that he is honouring the Japanese victims and war dead not the war criminals. I take it at face value.

He knows full well that by visiting the shrine he stirs up the Chinese and this in turn gives him more strength in his efforts to revise the self defence aspect of the constitution - Article 9.
I believe that Japan should ammend this and allow itself to paticipate in collective military operations authorised by the UN (there is growing pressure from the UN Security Council countries for them to do this). I also believe Japan should have more scope in it's ability to defend itself. Ukraine is the perfect example of how you cannot rely on the protective umbrella of other nations now as you could before. The scary increase in nationalist hatred from China and North Korea's Nuclear threat are the deal breakers for me.

Just remember that almost all expats in Japan can jump on a plane to their own Nation if the poo hits the fan, but most of the Japanese citizens won't have this option.

With the consumption tax biting people and the Nuclear power plants due to start up again Abe probably won't be around for much longer as PM, but I do think he has set the wheels in motion for the change to Article 9.

It looks like I'm in the minority on here by supporting the change but Japan has a much, much bigger left leaning majority than the right wing headcases so a sensible reform of The Self Defence of the country is likely.

edogaijin · 17 Mar 2014

Japan should pursue better relations with its neighbors. If it comes to an outright war, the Japanese army would get clobbered senseless by the Chinese. It'd make Hitler's ransacking of France tame by comparison. Japan has become a decadent, elderly-ridden nation that got lazy with peace.

astarisborn94 · 18 Mar 2014

nahadef said:
I still think Abe is a pathetic human being, obsessed with WWII, but I appreciate that he has capitulated this week. Hopefully the uyokus still trying to rewrite the past can take a lesson from this.
Abe: Kono sex slave apology stands | The Japan Times

Definitely was not expecting this. Considering his irrational nationalism, I honestly expected the worst out of this situation.

I still don't like Abe though. As Thomas pointed out, Abe is under the pressure of the US to not further escalate the issue (for obvious reasons). I have doubts about Abe being sincere about this. If you ask me, I still think the LDP would have tried to water down the apology. There also still the issue of Article #9 of the Constitution potentially being changed.

Abe must hate Japan

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