長いようで... / きたりする / これこれする / こちらから / させられた

Hi there,

1. 長いようで、短く思われたホームステイ。

This is the introductory sentence of a text in which a Japanese girl describes the experience of having a foreign student stay with the family. I can recognise the words, but I don't understand what it actually means. Could anyone translate?


2. 時々私達が日本語だけで話していると、「何を話してい るのか」と尋ねてきたりする時もあった。

My translation: "Sometimes when we were talking only in Japanese, she would start asking 'What are you talking about?'"

Is きたりする = きたり (from くる) + する? Does it have the meaning "start (asking) things like ..."?


3. 「これこれするように」というとすぐに「Why?」という 単語が常に返ってきた。

I get the general idea that the American girl was always questioning things with the word "Why?". However, I don't understand 「これこれするように」. Are these the actual spoken words that prompt the question "Why?"? What do they mean?


4. もちろん相手が納得するまで説明したが、しまいには、こちらから先手を 打って、理由を言ったものだった。

My translation: "Of course, I would explain until she understood, but eventually I began to preempt her questions and give her the reason before she asked."

Am I right that こちらから means "from me", and so the following actions (先手を打つ and 理由を言う were carried out by the speaker?


5. こういう点では、異文化圏の人間だということを身を以 て感じさせられた。

a) Here I don't get the relationship between こういう点 and 異文化圏の人間. Is the speaker saying that she felt these things were the result of cultural differences? Or is she saying that because of these things she felt there were cultural differences? Or something else?

b) I am not sure about 感じさせられた. Is this passive-causative? Does it mean something like "I was made to feel that..."?

eeky said:

1. 長いようで、短く思われたホームステイ。
This is the introductory sentence of a text in which a Japanese girl describes the experience of having a foreign student stay with the family. I can recognise the words, but I don't understand what it actually means. Could anyone translate?

Click to expand...

(literally) The home stay that seemed long but actually felt short (to me).

eeky said:

2. 時々私達が日本語だけで話していると、「何を話してい るのか」と尋ねてきたりする時もあった。
My translation: "Sometimes when we were talking only in Japanese, she would start asking 'What are you talking about?'"
Is きたりする = きたり (from くる) + する? Does it have the meaning "start (asking) things like ..."?

Click to expand...

"The -masu stem of verb + たり" means "also do ~", thus, 尋ねてきたりする shows that 尋ねてくる is one of the things she did.

２ （副助詞的に用いられ）同種の事柄の中からある動作・ 状態を例示して、他の場合を類推させる意を表す。「車 にひかれ―したらたいへんだ」

Click to expand...

「たり」の検索結果 - Yahoo!辞書

eeky said:

3. 「これこれするように」というとすぐに「Why?」という 単語が常に返ってきた。
I get the general idea that the American girl was always questioning things with the word "Why?". However, I don't understand 「これこれするように」. Are these the actual spoken words that prompt the question "Why?"? What do they mean?

Click to expand...

これこれするように: Do such and such.

eeky said:

4. もちろん相手が納得するまで説明したが、しまいには、こちらから先手を 打って、理由を言ったものだった。
My translation: "Of course, I would explain until she understood, but eventually I began to preempt her questions and give her the reason before she asked."
Am I right that こちらから means "from me", and so the following actions (先手を打つ and 理由を言う were carried out by the speaker?

Click to expand...

eeky said:

5. こういう点では、異文化圏の人間だということを身を以 て感じさせられた。
a) Here I don't get the relationship between こういう点 and 異文化圏の人間. Is the speaker saying that she felt these things were the result of cultural differences? Or is she saying that because of these things she felt there were cultural differences? Or something else?

Click to expand...

It's the former. こういう点から is used for the latter.

eeky said:

b) I am not sure about 感じさせられた. Is this passive-causative? Does it mean something like "I was made to feel that..."?

Click to expand...

Right.

Toritoribe said:

(literally) The homestay that seemed long but actually felt short (to me).

Click to expand...

Hi there Toritoribe. Yes, I was getting literal translations like this, but none of them made any sense to me. I can't imagine how something can seem long and yet feel short...

Toritoribe said:

"The -masu stem of verb + たり" means "also do ~", thus, 尋ねてきたりする shows that 尋ねてくる is one of the things she did.

Click to expand...

Could you explain what くる is adding to 尋ねてくる? I often have problems with -てくる because the dictionary lists a ton of meanings and I don't know how to tell which is meant. Is my idea of "start asking" anywhere close?

Toritoribe said:

これこれするように: Do such and such.

Click to expand...

Oh, sorry, there was one other thing I wanted to ask. Is これこれするように to be understood as an imperative then? Could これこれする by itself be an imperative, and, more generally, can we always use the dictionary form of a verb (e.g. する) as an imperative? I think I may have come across examples before, but I'm not sure if this is a general-purpose usage or restricted to certain situations.

eeky said:

Hi there Toritoribe. Yes, I was getting literal translations like this, but none of them made any sense to me. I can't imagine how something can seem long and yet feel short...

Click to expand...

I felt the (several-months/years-long)homestay would be long, but now(the homestay is over) I feel it was short.

eeky said:

Could you explain what くる is adding to 尋ねてくる? I often have problems with -てくる because the dictionary lists a ton of meanings and I don't know how to tell which is meant. Is my idea of "start asking" anywhere close?

Click to expand...

In this case, no. くる doesn't mean "to start". The basic idea of くる is "to come", so 尋ねてくる has a nuance of "to come (to me) and ask".

eeky said:

Oh, sorry, there was one other thing I wanted to ask. Is これこれするように to be understood as an imperative then? Could これこれする by itself be an imperative, and, more generally, can we always use the dictionary form of a verb (e.g. する) as an imperative? I think I may have come across examples before, but I'm not sure if this is a general-purpose usage or restricted to certain situations.

Click to expand...

"The dictionary form of the verb + よう（に）" is used for an indirect quote of a suggestion/order/request. (the same usage to this) Thus, the speaker didn't actually say「これこれするように」(of course).

Toritoribe said:

"The dictionary form of the verb + よう（に）" is used for an indirect quote of a suggestion/order/request. (the same usage to this) Thus, the speaker didn't actually say「これこれするように」(of course ).

Click to expand...

Is this just because これこれする is non-specific, or does the grammar not work at all? For example, let's suppose the content of the actual suggestion/order/request is ベッドから出る ("get out of bed"; if this is bad Japanese then please change it to something correct!)

Then, could the actual spoken words of the suggestion/order/request be any of the following?

「ベッドから出る。」
「ベッドから出るよう。」
「ベッドから出るように。」

In other words, can the dictionary form of a verb, and/or the dictionary form + よう（に）, be used as the actual words of the order/request?

eeky said:

Is this just because これこれする is non-specific, or does the grammar not work at all? For example, let's suppose the content of the actual suggestion/order/request is ベッドから出る ("get out of bed"; if this is bad Japanese then please change it to something correct!)

Then, could the actual spoken words of the suggestion/order/request be any of the following?

「ベッドから出る。」
「ベッドから出るよう。」
「ベッドから出るように。」

In other words, can the dictionary form of a verb, and/or the dictionary form + よう（に）, be used as the actual words of the order/request?

Click to expand...

Yes.
ようだ【様だ】の意味 - goo国語辞書

５ （「ように」の形で）婉曲(えんきょく)な命令・希望の意を表す。「開始時刻に遅れないように」「今後ともよろしくご指導くださいますように」

Click to expand...

Same goes with よう, though in case of よう it is usually means wish/hope, not really order/request.

Dictionary form is used as a strong imperative in speech.
e.g.
ぐずぐずしない！すぐにベッドから出る！

Thank you both. As always, your help is very much appreciated.