言いおった / わかなかった

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 27 Feb 2014

• #1

Hi


1. 「おまえさんの妹もそう言いおったよ」

I'm sorry if this is a pattern I've asked about previously, but I'm having a brain fade with all these wretched おった's and ちょった's. What is 言いおった? Why not 言っておった?


2. 思ったほど食欲がわかなかった

Is わかなかった = 沸かなかった?

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 27 Feb 2014

• #2

1)
言いおった/言いよった (the masu stem + おった/よった) is a negative version of 言った, whereas 言っておった/言っちょった is just a dialect of 言っていた. It doesn't have negative nuance.

なっている --> なっておる / なっちょる
言っていた --> 言っておった / 言っちょった
(just a dialect)

きた --> きおった / きよった
言った --> 言いおった / 言いよった
(not to be pleased with it)

2)
湧く

わく【湧く】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 27 Feb 2014

• Thread starter
• #3

Thanks very much, that's very helpful.

Is the おった in 言いおった etymologically the same as the おった in 言っておった, i.e. from the same verb おる?

Is ～よった merely a phonetic variation of ～おった, or is it etymologically separate?

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 27 Feb 2014

• #4

All the etymologies are the same おる.
FYI, "the masu stem + よった" can mean ～ていた (e.g. 言いよった = 言っていた) without negative nuance in some dialects. In fact, 言よーた, which is a variation of 言いよった, is used as 言っていた in my home town. These two 言いよった (with and without negative nuance) have different pitch accents.

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 27 Feb 2014

• Thread starter
• #5

Thanks. At normal speed I have a hard time saying 言いおった differently from 言いよった, in fact.

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 27 Feb 2014

• #6

Probably that's the reason why おる changed to よる. (This "o" was pronounced "wo" in classical Japanese.)

ii oru --> ii yoru --> iyōru
tabe oru --> tabe yoru --> tabyōru

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 27 Feb 2014

• Thread starter
• #7

Do you think that native speakers would always be aware of which one they were saying?

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 27 Feb 2014

• #8

Yes, I think I can distinguish the difference between おる and よる, since it gives us information about the speaker (e.g. where they are from, how old they are).

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 28 Feb 2014

• Thread starter
• #9

Well, I can (I think) tell the difference between おる and よる OK in isolation; it's ～いおるand ～いよる that seem pretty much indistinguishable to me at normal spoken speed.

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 28 Feb 2014

• #10

Well, I'm, too, talking about the difference including ～いおる vs. ～いよる.