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言いおった / わかなかった

eeky

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Hi


1. 「おまえさんの妹もそう言いおったよ」

I'm sorry if this is a pattern I've asked about previously, but I'm having a brain fade with all these wretched おった's and ちょった's. What is 言いおった? Why not 言っておった?


2. 思ったほど食欲がわかなかった

Is わかなかった = 沸かなかった?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
言いおった/言いよった (the masu stem + おった/よった) is a negative version of 言った, whereas 言っておった/言っちょった is just a dialect of 言っていた. It doesn't have negative nuance.

なっている --> なっておる / なっちょる
言っていた --> 言っておった / 言っちょった
(just a dialect)

きた --> きおった / きよった
言った --> 言いおった / 言いよった
(not to be pleased with it)

2)
湧く

わく【湧く】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書
 

eeky

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Thanks very much, that's very helpful.

Is the おった in 言いおった etymologically the same as the おった in 言っておった, i.e. from the same verb おる?

Is ~よった merely a phonetic variation of ~おった, or is it etymologically separate?
 

Toritoribe

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All the etymologies are the same おる.
FYI, "the masu stem + よった" can mean ~ていた (e.g. 言いよった = 言っていた) without negative nuance in some dialects. In fact, 言よーた, which is a variation of 言いよった, is used as 言っていた in my home town. These two 言いよった (with and without negative nuance) have different pitch accents.
 

eeky

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Thanks. At normal speed I have a hard time saying 言いおった differently from 言いよった, in fact.
 

Toritoribe

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Probably that's the reason why おる changed to よる. (This "o" was pronounced "wo" in classical Japanese.)

ii oru --> ii yoru --> iyōru
tabe oru --> tabe yoru --> tabyōru
 

eeky

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Do you think that native speakers would always be aware of which one they were saying?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, I think I can distinguish the difference between おる and よる, since it gives us information about the speaker (e.g. where they are from, how old they are).
 

eeky

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Well, I can (I think) tell the difference between おる and よる OK in isolation; it's ~いおるand ~いよる that seem pretty much indistinguishable to me at normal spoken speed.
 

Toritoribe

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Well, I'm, too, talking about the difference including ~いおる vs. ~いよる.
 
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