見られた / わざわざ / 野郎 / 待って

eeky · 19 Nov 2013

Hi,

1. しかし、ハリーに脚を見られた時のスネイプのあの表情は、そう簡単に忘れられはしなかった。

a) Does ハリーに脚を見られた時 mean "time when the leg was shown to Harry"? I still get confused with patterns like this, understanding why it is を and not が. Would が work too?

b) What is the reason for saying 忘れられはしなかった and not simply 忘れられなかった?

2. わざわざご親切に

As a way of saying "thanks", is this sarcastic?

3. いいか、野郎ども

Is 野郎 vulgar? WWWJDIC says "bastard; *******; son of a *****", which seems a bit strong for HP.

4. 「さあ、皆さん、正々堂々戦いましょう」全選手が周りに集まるのを待って先生が言った。

Would this sentence be correct if 待って was changed to 待った? Somehow it doesn't feel right to me, but I'm not exactly sure why. My understanding is that 待って can't directly modify 先生 in the way that 待った does, right?

Toritoribe · 19 Nov 2013

1) a)
It's more likely "when his(= Snape's) leg was seen by Harry". It's the passive of adversity.

ハリーに脚が見られた means "(the subject) saw Harry had the leg" or something.

b)
"The -masu stem of a verb + はしない" is an emphasized form of the negative. When the verb is volitional, ～はしない expresses the subject's strong intention not to do.

2)
It can be sarcastic.

3)
It's more close to "guys" depending on the context (e.g. when calling buddies).

4)
全選手が周りに集まるのを待って、先生が言った makes sense?

eeky · 19 Nov 2013

Toritoribe said:
1) a)
It's more likely "when his(= Snape's) leg was seen by Harry". It's the passive of adversity.

Oh, so Snape's leg was seen by Harry and Snape was adversely affected, is that right? Passive of adversity did occur to me, but I was previously thinking that Harry was the one adversely affected.

Toritoribe said:
全選手が周りに集まるのを待って、先生が言った makes sense?

Yes, it makes sense, but, sorry, I should have made it clear, the original makes sense to me too, in the sense that I can understand the intended meaning. The aspect that I don't fully understand is when/why the pattern "clause ending with ～て followed directly by subject of ～て", as in "・・・待って先生・・・", is used in preference to direct modification of the subject, as in, e.g., "・・・待った先生・・・". Is the ～て pattern used when the verb needs to be given a continuous aspect, for example?

Toritoribe · 19 Nov 2013

The subject of the clause is Snape (スネイプがハリーに脚を見られた), so the one who was adversely affected is Snape.

全選手が周りに集まるのを待って does not modify 先生. It's just a continuous usage of the -te form.

eeky · 20 Nov 2013

OK, thanks. Actually, I see now that my original question (4) was confusingly worded. I meant that 待った seemed wrong to me, not 待って. So, could you confirm whether the following sentence is correct Japanese, and, if so, how it differs in meaning from the original?

「さあ、皆さん、正々堂々戦いましょう」全選手が周りに集まるのを待った先生が言った

Glenn · 20 Nov 2013

If you pull the subject to the front, perhaps it will become clearer:

先生が、全選手が周りに集まるのを待って、言った。

Glenn · 20 Nov 2013

eeky said:
「さあ、皆さん、正々堂々戦いましょう」全選手が周りに集まるのを待った先生が言った

Here the teacher is being modified as having been the one to be waiting for the contestants to gather, whereas the て version is saying that the teacher waited for them to gather, then said "let's have a fair fight!" I do have to say, though, the lack of the quoting と and the order of the quote here is a bit odd and could possibly lead to confusion in the 待った version.

Toritoribe · 20 Nov 2013

Probably there is a space after 「さあ、皆さん、正々堂々戦いましょう」. Thus, those are two sentences.

eeky · 20 Nov 2013

Toritoribe said:
Probably there is a space after 「さあ、皆さん、正々堂々戦いましょう」. Thus, those are two sentences.

The next part is actually on a new line in the book.

見られた / わざわざ / 野郎 / 待って

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

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